this age, and the age to come

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Poppin

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What are the two ages?
May we examine them?

Luke 18
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

.....

is the age to come eternity (after Judgment)?
Poppin
 

Rocky Wiley

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This age, when Jesus spoke, was the age of law. He came to his own, Jews not Christians, and his own received him not.

When we go to the book of Revelation John sees the things that are shortly to come to pass (Rev 1:1). That would be when the old heaven and earth would pass away (old covenant) and the new heaven and earth would arrive (age of grace). So when Paul spoke of this age, it was still the age of law.

The marriage of God and his new bride would not have taken place until he had put away his other wife.

At the end of the age of law (the destruction the temple and Jerusalem and God’s divorce) the faithful Jews of the past were resurrected, thereby completing the promise of eternal life to all.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

His disciples would sit around the throne with Jesus judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (that would be the Apotles). During the thousand (unknown number) (chilioi - Plural of uncertain affinity;) years they reigned with Jesus.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The dead that were judged out of those things written (old testament) according to their works (law) were the Jews that had passed away in the past.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
We, as well all previous Christians, received our eternal life when we believed. That is why the Apostles were not mentioned in the resurrection here in Revelation. They (just as we will) went right on to be with the Lord as they passed from this life here on earth.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
 
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Angelina

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So when Paul spoke of this age, it was still the age of law.
I disagree with your premise here. Following the requirement of the law was no-longer necessary because Christ, the passover lamb, fulfilled those requirements therefore becoming the great high priest of a new covenant at his resurrection. This was prior to Paul starting his ministry to the gentiles, otherwise Paul would have been preaching the message of the law and not grace through faith.

The marriage of God and his new bride would not have taken place until he had put away his other wife.


At the end of the age of law (the destruction the temple and Jerusalem and God’s divorce) the faithful Jews of the past were resurrected, thereby completing the promise of eternal life to all.
Again I disagree...the promise had always included the gentiles as well as the Jews which was given to Abraham four hundred and thirty years before the law came in. Galatians 3:13-14, 16, 17, 18,

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
 
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7angels

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Poppin said:
What are the two ages?
May we examine them?

Luke 18
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

.....

is the age to come eternity (after Judgment)?
Poppin
i believe what is being referred to as the 2 ages are the age of Grace that we are in now and the millennium where we will reign with Jesus forever.

if you want to examine them then i encourage you too. if it very interesting.

God bless
 

Poppin

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Rocky Wiley said:
This age, when Jesus spoke, was the age of law. He came to his own, Jews not Christians, and his own received him not.

When we go to the book of Revelation John sees the things that are shortly to come to pass (Rev 1:1). That would be when the old heaven and earth would pass away (old covenant) and the new heaven and earth would arrive (age of grace). So when Paul spoke of this age, it was still the age of law.

The marriage of God and his new bride would not have taken place until he had put away his other wife.

At the end of the age of law (the destruction the temple and Jerusalem and God’s divorce) the faithful Jews of the past were resurrected, thereby completing the promise of eternal life to all.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

His disciples would sit around the throne with Jesus judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (that would be the Apotles). During the thousand (unknown number) (chilioi - Plural of uncertain affinity;) years they reigned with Jesus.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The dead that were judged out of those things written (old testament) according to their works (law) were the Jews that had passed away in the past.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
We, as well all previous Christians, received our eternal life when we believed. That is why the Apostles were not mentioned in the resurrection here in Revelation. They (just as we will) went right on to be with the Lord as they passed from this life here on earth.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

I LOVE THIS! :) - SEE OBJECTION AND EXCEPTION at the end of this post.

i'm sure Daniel 12 declares it this way too.
But one sure has to relax and just consider it (myself included :wub: ).

Interesting for me because:

As an Amillennialist, I have believed the first resurrection (Rev 20) was a complex miraculous salvation involving and including:

1) Christ's Resurrection : First in order and importance

2) Then: : those are Christ's (first disciples and all others) take part in Christ's resurrection through the new birth - raised with Him.

3) And: all saved who have gone before are with Christ now - upon the death of the body (first death) the spirit enters His presence,

4) Where they (we) are : waiting for The Universal Resurrection (bodily for all, the Last Day - Judgment - sheep & goat separation); and are reigning with Him from Heaven NOW, as He rules the earth,and cares for His Church.

But:

Your post has me re-thinking this - adjusting my view. Hmm.... ^_^

What you say sounds true. I must consider it carefully.

Question :)

- So what happens to all other Christians through the ages upon the death of the body?- DO THEY (we) enter Christ's and the Apostles' presence?

if I had not carefully studied Daniel 12, I would not have been willing to even explore your view. I'm interested to just read your writings (blog? threads?), and - do you have any resources (off site)?

Okay...God bless you
Poppin

-------

ONLY OBJECTION:

"When we go to the book of Revelation John sees the things that are shortly to come to pass (Rev 1:1). That would be when the old heaven and earth would pass away (old covenant) and the new heaven and earth would arrive (age of grace). So when Paul spoke of this age, it was still the age of law."

Hmmmm.......maybe not an objection.
must ponder.
 

Angelina

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7angels said:
i believe what is being referred to as the 2 ages are the age of Grace that we are in now and the millennium where we will reign with Jesus forever.

if you want to examine them then i encourage you too. if it very interesting.

God bless
Hey 7,
...I totally agree with the age of grace that we are in at this point of time. Whether the millennium reign continues eternally??? I'm unsure

Bless ya!
 

Rocky Wiley

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Poppin said:
Question :)

- So what happens to all other Christians through the ages upon the death of the body?- DO THEY (we) enter Christ's and the Apostles' presence?

if I had not carefully studied Daniel 12, I would not have been willing to even explore your view. I'm interested to just read your writings (blog? threads?), and - do you have any resources (off site)?

Okay...God bless you
Poppin

-------

ONLY OBJECTION:

"When we go to the book of Revelation John sees the things that are shortly to come to pass (Rev 1:1). That would be when the old heaven and earth would pass away (old covenant) and the new heaven and earth would arrive (age of grace). So when Paul spoke of this age, it was still the age of law."

Hmmmm.......maybe not an objection.
must ponder.
Poppin,

This site has most complete written and audio studies I have found.

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/home.php

Your brother in Christ
 

Poppin

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7angels said:
i believe what is being referred to as the 2 ages are the age of Grace that we are in now and the millennium where we will reign with Jesus forever.

if you want to examine them then i encourage you too. if it very interesting.

God bless
Hi 7 angels.
Honestly, I have explored the millennial view as well, and can't make it work (having said that poorly - sorry).
Even historic simple premillennialism provides just a fuzzy notion of a golden age of peace.
For one thing, I can never determine what such a literal temporary 1,000 year reign on this earth is for.
Using the OT scriptures that normally one sees, it absolutely follows that in a future millennium, there would be animal sacrifices for sin.
That in itself tells me it can't be right.
Poppin.

----

Thank you Rocky.
I will look at the link and hopefully comment and ask questions.
Poppin.
 

Angelina

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Using the OT scriptures that normally one sees, it absolutely follows that in a future millennium, there would be animal sacrifices for sin.
That in itself tells me it can't be right.
Not if Christ became that sacrifice for sin once and for all because all were subject to sin including the O/T believer's...then all have an opportunity under the new covenant of eternal life by faith in Christ.

Galatians 3
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
 

Poppin

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Angelina said:
Not if Christ became that sacrifice for sin once and for all because all were subject to sin including the O/T believer's...then all have an opportunity under the new covenant of eternal life by faith in Christ.

Galatians 3
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Hi Angelina :)
But the OT writings - specifically Ezekiel's temple - and others in the millennial scenario do say that people must bring animals, and they will be sacrificed for sin.

Poppin.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Poppin.

Poppin said:
What are the two ages?
May we examine them?

Luke 18
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

.....

is the age to come eternity (after Judgment)?
Poppin
I don't see these two ages as arbitrarily selected, nor do I see them as symbolic in some way. I also do not recognize them as "now and eternity future." Instead, I believe that Kefa (Peter) was the one to give us a DEFINITIVE description of the THREE ages of this earth's history:

2 Peter 3:1-18
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (We call this "uniformitarianism" today.)
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
KJV


Thus, Kefa was describing THREE ages divided by catastrophes:

First earth and its heavens (skies; atmosphere) - 3:5
The Flood of Noach - 3:6
Second earth and its heavens (skies; atmosphere) - 3:7-9
The Fire - 3:10-12 (with allusion in 3:7)
Third earth and its heavens (skies; atmosphere) - 3:13

Then, he concluded with verse 18:

Petrou B
18 auxanete de en chariti kai gnoosei tou Kuriou heemoon kai Sooteeros Ieesou Christou. Autoo hee doxa kai nun kai eis heemeran aioonos. [Ameen.]
The Greek New Testament (UBS)


18 auxanete = 18 you-grow
de = but
en = in
chariti = graciousness
kai = and/also
gnoosei = knowledge
tou = of-the
Kuriou = Lord/Master
heemoon = of-us/our
kai = and/also
Sooteeros = Deliverer/Rescuer/Savior
Ieesou = Yeshua` = Jesus
Christou. = Mashiach. = Messiah/Anointed.
Autoo = To-Him
hee = the
doxa = glory/brightness
kai = and/also
nun = now
kai = and/also
eis = into
heemeran = day
aioonos. = of-age.

[Ameen.] = [Truth.]


18 you-grow but in graciousness and/also knowledge of-the Lord/Master of-us/our and/also Deliverer/Rescuer/Savior Yeshua` Messiah/Anointed. To-Him the glory/brightness and/also now and/also into day of-age/age’s. [Truth.]

18 but (you) grow in graciousness and knowledge of our Master and Deliverer Yeshua` Messiah. To Him [be] the brightness both now and into [the] age’s day.

And, I believe this is referring back to verses 8 and 10. It's a THOUSAND-YEAR-LONG DAY! (I.e., no night in His presence because of His own brightness that rivals that of the sun!)
 

Poppin

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That's very cool Retro!
and indeed Peter does cover 3 periods.
pre-flood; post-flood and eternity.


but what about Jesus here?:

Luke 18
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

He is discussing two ages.
 

Angelina

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Hi Angelina :)
But the OT writings - specifically Ezekiel's temple - and others in the millennial scenario do say that people must bring animals, and they will be sacrificed for sin.
Where does it say that??? :huh:
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I see the King James uses "this world" and the "world to come"

To me , these passages refer to our present world , probably from the time of Adam , and if not , then from the time of Noah.

(To me) the "world to come" refers to the new heavens and new earth at the end of revelation .

And that is where we experience the eternal life referred to in the "world to come"

I dont think it refers to an era , or a covenant , or a millennium in this present world we live in.

To do it properly would require a careful study of all the applications of the words "world" and "ages" as used in those passages.

That should narrow it down some.
 
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Retrobyter

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Shalom, Poppin.

Poppin said:
Hi Angelina :)
But the OT writings - specifically Ezekiel's temple - and others in the millennial scenario do that people must bring animals, and they will be sacrificed for sin.

Poppin.
Let's just put this matter to rest right now. There were MANY different kinds of sacrifices performed in the Temple. A few were for sin, but most were for thanksgiving, for praise to God, for the priests' and Levites' food, for celebrations, for rescue, for saying kiddish (focusing on God when grieving), etc.

Here's a link you might find helpful. I give it ONLY to show you what all was involved in the sacrifices within the Temple: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12984-sacrifice.
 

Purity

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Hi 7 angels.
Honestly, I have explored the millennial view as well, and can't make it work (having said that poorly - sorry).
Even historic simple premillennialism provides just a fuzzy notion of a golden age of peace.
For one thing, I can never determine what such a literal temporary 1,000 year reign on this earth is for.
Using the OT scriptures that normally one sees, it absolutely follows that in a future millennium, there would be animal sacrifices for sin.
That in itself tells me it can't be right.
Poppin.
Yes, I would see how you could be apposed to a millennial Kingdom with sacrifices for sin but thankfully the Word of God has stated it correctly for us :)

All the people of the land (of Israel) will contribute to this offering for the prince of Israel. Ezek 45:16

Poppin who is the prince of Israel? And why would these sacrifices be require by natural Israel to be given too, or for, (on behalf) of the Prince?

You will need your spiritual cap on for this one ;)

I will post a short study in proving Jesus is the prince of Ezekiel's prophecy - though I doubt I will get any opposition its good to refresh our memories.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19840-jesus-is-the-prince-of-ezekiels-prophecy/
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Poppin.

Poppin said:
That's very cool Retro!
and indeed Peter does cover 3 periods.
pre-flood; post-flood and eternity.


but what about Jesus here?:

Luke 18
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10
29Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

He is discussing two ages.
Yes, He is. The current age does not END when Yeshua` returns, though. Instead, it goes on for another 1,000 years before the end of the age. We call this the Millennium, and all that "millennium" means, coming from "mille" and "annum," is a "thousand years." It's the Latin translation of the Greek "chilia etee," which also means a "thousand years," found six times in Revelation 20. THEN, the Fire destroys much of the surface of Earth, and a NEW Earth is created from the remains. Furthermore, the Earth is not permanently destroyed, as some teach. Instead, it is REMADE and then the New Jerusalem descends upon it. The Fire comes at the END of this age (Hebrew: `owlam hazeh = "age the-current"). The THIRD age (Hebrew: `owlam haba' = "age the-coming") begins AFTER the Fire.

For those who are into numerology, it begins on the EIGHTH thousand-year Day of human history! According to gemetria, eight is the number of new beginnings, just as seven is the number of spiritual perfection or completion, as in the Shabbat (Sabbath). The eighth day would begin a NEW week. I use gemetria sparingly. I believe it is a RESULT and not a CAUSE. Therefore, one can best see it in hindsight and should NOT use it to try to make predictions. One's predictions WILL fail at some point, and there one is with egg on his or her face!

Whether it is or not, from our perspective, the THIRD AGE is "eternity." We cannot see beyond the vanishing point, and the Scriptures are silent after the New Earth, the New Sky, and the New Jerusalem are created. It just goes on and on forever (as far as we can tell) after that with every tear wiped away and all the former things forgotten.

Let's revisit 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV


This passage is, after all, in the Resurrection Chapter of the Bible. Therefore, its focus is on the subject of resurrection. It's not very clear in any English version, but 23 and 24 should be read together. It's possible that the verse division at this point makes it difficult to see them together, but Paul continues the thought into verse 24. There are THREE resurrections talked about in these verses:

(1) The Messiah who is the first-fruits of the resurrection,
(2) those who are resurrected at the Messiah's coming, and
(3) those who are resurrected at the end (of the age), "when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

The Messiah begins His reign when He returns, and He must reign until He has put all things under His feet - until He has subdued all things to Himself. Folks still die now, and folks will die during the Millennium. The Millennium is NOT a "time of perfect peace!" That's wrong. Instead, the Millennium will be a time of FORCED submission with subjects willing and champing to rebel! THIS is what Psalm 2 is all about! It will be a time when leaders of other countries will hold secret conferences to discuss how they can get out from under the King of Kings' rulership, but their plans will be spoiled as YHWH steps in and AUDIBLY LAUGHS at them for their treachery and rebellion! He will remind them that HE, GOD, has put the Messiah in place as King of Kings, and then warns them that it would not be a good idea to tick off the Son! Just because Peter saw some kings and leaders beginning to be like this in the first century does NOT mean that ALL of the Psalm was fulfilled then! Peter only quoted the first two verses because only the first two verses were starting to be fulfilled! Prophecies often TAKE TIME to be fulfilled, and this prophecy in Psalm 2 is no different.

So, the Messiah will reign as King and King of Kings (World Emperor) until all of His enemies are subdued. It won't be until the END of the thousand-year period, that the last enemy, Death itself, is conquered, as well. This will occur, according to Revelation 20:7-15, AFTER the Fire and DURING the Great White Throne Judgment. Death and the Grave are also thrown into the Lake of Burning Sulfur, and that will be the end of Death.

It is not until AFTER He has subdued all of His enemies that He Himself will submit to His Father, and He turns over His Kingdom - the World Empire that He has built over the one-thousand-year period - so that God His Father may be "all in all."

Now, I've said all that to say this: The end of the current age is highlighted by the Messiah's World Empire. The age to come features His FATHER'S World Empire, of which the Messiah will remain the King of Isra'el forever.

Thus, there are TWO KINGDOMS! The Kingdom of the Son and the Kingdom of the Father. Both are on this earth; both are over earthly kingdoms; and both are righteous Kingdoms. The differences are that the Kingdom of the Son only lasts a thousand years while the Kingdom of the Father lasts forever; the Kingdom of the Son is ruled by a "rod of iron"; the Kingdom of the Father has no more sin. The Kingdom of the Son starts out fairly small, Isra'el and a few nations who become tributary nations; the Kingdom of the Father starts out as a worldwide Kingdom - a World Empire.

That explains the interpretation of the second parable of Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world ("this age").
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (This is the Great White Throne Judgment.)
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

And, when you add in His other parables of Luke 19 and Matthew 25,...

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore,
A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV


Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me (get away from me), ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Notice, however, that at this point they are not THROWN in the everlasting Lake of Fire!)
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

KJV

... we get a more rounded picture of what will happen in the future. This last passage, Matthew 25, is a WAR TRIBUNAL! These various nations, probably represented by their leaders, are separated into those nations which treated His people, both Isra'el and believing Gentiles, with kindness and those nations which did NOT treat His people with kindness. The nations which DID treat His people well will become a part of His worldwide Kingdom - His Empire.

Those nations which did NOT treat His people well will be estranged from the Kingdom and exiled for everlasting punishment. This is NOT a judgment on individuals, but on their reigning governments. If a person who was a citizen of such an estranged government wanted to become a believer, he or she still could, but it would be much tougher. He or she would have to leave his or her own country to do so and immigrate to a country that could be a part of the Empire.
 

Arnie Manitoba

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2011
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Angelina said:
Too many words Retro...miles too many... :unsure:
Retrobyter is very knowledgeable and often correct (in my opinion)

Trouble is , when somebody asks him for the correct time , he proceeds to tell everybody how to build a Swiss watch.

To put all that effort into a huge post , and not have anybody read it , or learn anything , accomplishes nothing

Shorter concise replies are much more beneficial.

I hate to see his talent go to waste ..... but I also hate to waste time reading how to construct a Swiss watch when I do not need it.
 

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
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Angelina said:
Where does it say that??? :huh:
Ezekiel 45 for example
Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Poppin.



Let's just put this matter to rest right now. There were MANY different kinds of sacrifices performed in the Temple. A few were for sin, but most were for thanksgiving, for praise to God, for the priests' and Levites' food, for celebrations, for rescue, for saying kiddish (focusing on God when grieving), etc.

Here's a link you might find helpful. I give it ONLY to show you what all was involved in the sacrifices within the Temple: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12984-sacrifice.
thank you retro
nevertheless the passages people use for millennialism state explicitly animals are to be brought to a temple and sacrificed to make atonement for sIn.
they say for sin.
how anyone might change that meaning is another matter.
but they say make atonement for .
Poppin