This may be tough for some to swallow, but....

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Giuliano

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Why should he? He is not obligated to do so, ESPECIALLY after the phony Witch Hunt which had absolutely no factual basis.

What he failed to do is lock up Mueller and his gang along with Obama and Clinton.
Why should he release his tax returns? He said he would. Don't try to mix things up by talking about Mueller, Obama and Clinton. Trump lied.
 
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brakelite

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Prince Edward is being vilified by all and sundry for his connection to Epstein...through one photo. Trump's connections to Clinton, photos with Epstein, and several other commonalities between him and the very swamp he declared would be drained are ignored by evangelicals as if its blasphemy to dare critique and question "God's man". And that is the gist of this thread...to point out the blind love affair, the infatuation that the church has with their favoured one. I fear the church in America is setting itself up for a big fall. The swamp may have lost a little water, and one or two creatures at the top may have run out of oxygen, but the creatures that lurked in the shadows beneath are still wriggling about.
The modern church's penchant for embracing politics as the answer to the nation's lack of moral compass is totally contrary to how Christ worked, totally contrary to how the apostolic church worked, but totally in harmony with how the Catholic church developed. We all know how that turned out for those who opposed it, and right now the church in America is preparing the ground for the establishment of an image to that medieval beast. And we all know what is to become of all who oppose that.
 
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quietthinker

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Just stop already, God put Trump there for His purpose. If you are having such a problem with it then go before God in prayer and talk to Him about it.
Because God puts leaders in place is not an endorsement of the leaders as being worthy of following or approving of their policies.
God put Lucifer in the position of covering cherub....I would say thats a pretty high honour. Does that mean his policies receive a double plus good vote?... does it mean I do obeisance to the road he paves?
 

Heart2Soul

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Because God puts leaders in place is not an endorsement of the leaders as being worthy of following or approving of their policies.
God put Lucifer in the position of covering cherub....I would say thats a pretty high honour. Does that mean his policies receive a double plus good vote?... does it mean I do obeisance to the road he paves?
Does it mean that you can complain and moan and groan?
God is a Sovereign God and His ways/thoughts are above ours.
So ya don't like His choice? His Word tells us to pray for our leaders.
As I said....because of this president Jerusalem is now restored as the capital of Israel as prophesied. So get over it....it's about fulfillment of prophesy.
And over half of the links posted here was written by a biased, Trump hating, reporter/opinion journalist.
 

Heart2Soul

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Prince Edward is being vilified by all and sundry for his connection to Epstein...through one photo. Trump's connections to Clinton, photos with Epstein, and several other commonalities between him and the very swamp he declared would be drained are ignored by evangelicals as if its blasphemy to dare critique and question "God's man". And that is the gist of this thread...to point out the blind love affair, the infatuation that the church has with their favoured one. I fear the church in America is setting itself up for a big fall. The swamp may have lost a little water, and one or two creatures at the top may have run out of oxygen, but the creatures that lurked in the shadows beneath are still wriggling about.
The modern church's penchant for embracing politics as the answer to the nation's lack of moral compass is totally contrary to how Christ worked, totally contrary to how the apostolic church worked, but totally in harmony with how the Catholic church developed. We all know how that turned out for those who opposed it, and right now the church in America is preparing the ground for the establishment of an image to that medieval beast. And we all know what is to become of all who oppose that.
God has raised up 2 Cyrus's in the Bible who were not Godly men but who fulfilled His purpose.
 

Heart2Soul

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Have you ever dealt with really clever people who really knew how to manipulate par excellence? They fool a lot of people. In fact that fool most people. Isn't Satan himself supposed to be a highly clever being? I think that we have to consider the possibility that Trump may have been groomed for the position that he's in. Remember - the last President to warn about secret societies was assassinated. I really don't believe that anyone gets into that high of a position unless they're compromised.

Too many Christians are being fooled. Trump has NOT fulfilled any of the promises he made and some of the "pastors" who support him I don't believe are even spiritually regenerated. Trump has NOT defunded Planned Parenthood, Trump has renogotiated NAFTA in an even worse deal for America, has continued the endless wars, and many many other things. WHY ARE CHRISTIANS STILL TRUSTING THAT HE'S GOING TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN WHEN HE'S STOCKED HIS CABINET WITH SWAMP CREATURES? HE DIDN'T DRAIN THE SWAMP HE PERPETUATED IT.

I think that everyone needs to research Trump/ controlled opposition/ Agenda 21 before much more time elapses. Trump is leading everyone down a primrose path. I'm really worried that Christians aren't using the discernment that God gives us.
Yes, you can pray and ask God to give you discernment to see the truth behind all these conspiracy theories coming from far-left trump haters.
 

Giuliano

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God has raised up 2 Cyrus's in the Bible who were not Godly men but who fulfilled His purpose.
Two? I only know about one; and Cyrus the Great believed in one God. He also believed in religious freedom. He was a Zoroastrian but he still believed the Jews were worshiping the same one God he was. Indeed, if you study things, you will find many points of similarity between Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

Ezra 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.
 

Giuliano

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Because God puts leaders in place is not an endorsement of the leaders as being worthy of following or approving of their policies.
God put Lucifer in the position of covering cherub....I would say thats a pretty high honour. Does that mean his policies receive a double plus good vote?... does it mean I do obeisance to the road he paves?
Quite right. We could make heroes out of Herod and Pilate, saying they were fulfilling prophecies.
 
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Giuliano

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As I said....because of this president Jerusalem is now restored as the capital of Israel as prophesied. So get over it....it's about fulfillment of prophesy.
Where do you get your news? Trump did not make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. He only moved the American embassy there, and where is that prophesied in the Bible?

By offending the Palestinians by doing that, he effectively killed the prospects of peace since they don't trust him. His son-in-law, who happens to be Jewish, has also supported illegal settlements in Palestine, so they don't trust him either. Yet Jared Kushner was put in charge of peace talks? Why would the Palestinians trust him to be a honest broker when he's already shown he's biased in favor of the Jewish position? The peace talks are a joke.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Where do you get your news? Trump did not make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. He only moved the American embassy there, and where is that prophesied in the Bible?

By offending the Palestinians by doing that, he effectively killed the prospects of peace since they don't trust him. His son-in-law, who happens to be Jewish, has also supported illegal settlements in Palestine, so they don't trust him either. Yet Jared Kushner was put in charge of peace talks? Why would the Palestinians trust him to be a honest broker when he's already shown he's biased in favor of the Jewish position? The peace talks are a joke.
Who is King Cyrus, and why did Netanyahu compare him to Trump?
King Cyrus was a pagan worshiper but acknowledged the God of the Israel people.
 

Heart2Soul

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Where do you get your news? Trump did not make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. He only moved the American embassy there, and where is that prophesied in the Bible?

By offending the Palestinians by doing that, he effectively killed the prospects of peace since they don't trust him. His son-in-law, who happens to be Jewish, has also supported illegal settlements in Palestine, so they don't trust him either. Yet Jared Kushner was put in charge of peace talks? Why would the Palestinians trust him to be a honest broker when he's already shown he's biased in favor of the Jewish position? The peace talks are a joke.
I didn't mean to say 2 Cyrus's in the Bible...my intention is 2 types of Cyrus's
King Cyrus who helped free 2500 Jews, U.S. President Truman...helped Israel win back their state....and now Trump who declares Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
None of these leaders were/are "Christians".
God promised to restore Jerusalem back to it's holy land which must come to pass for Jesus return.
 

quietthinker

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Does it mean that you can complain and moan and groan?
God is a Sovereign God and His ways/thoughts are above ours.
So ya don't like His choice? His Word tells us to pray for our leaders.
As I said....because of this president Jerusalem is now restored as the capital of Israel as prophesied. So get over it....it's about fulfillment of prophesy.
And over half of the links posted here was written by a biased, Trump hating, reporter/opinion journalist.
My dear, I am not moaning or groaning....yet :) who knows, a time might come when those sounds are voiced....and I question whether Jerusalem spoken of in the prophecies is that of the bricks and mortar in Palestine (latitude 31.76 N longitude 35.21 E). I doubt it, as it is hardly a City of Peace and doesn't look as if it ever will be, rather, the Jerusalem of prophecy is that of the New Earth spoken of in Revelation where no wicked thing enters.
 

Giuliano

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Who is King Cyrus, and why did Netanyahu compare him to Trump?
King Cyrus was a pagan worshiper but acknowledged the God of the Israel people.
Netanyahu needs all the friends he can get; and he knows how to use flattery on Trump. I was shocked when the Israelis struck a Temple coin with Trump's face on it. What did Jesus say about money?

Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Netanyahu is practically making an idol of out Trump by putting his face on those half-shekels meant for the Temple tax.

Story here: The Temple Coin – Mikdash Educational Center

Miriam Adelson, whose husband is a big Republican donor, also struck me as idolatrous for a Jew. She wants a new book added to the Bible.

Miriam Adelson hopes there will be a biblical ‘Book of Trump’

The Israeli-American physician compared the president to biblical prophets in an article in which she asked why he has not enjoyed higher support among American Jews.

“That this has not been the case (so far, the 2020 election still beckons) is an oddity that will long be pondered by historians,” Adelson wrote in an an article for Israel Hayom, of which she is the publisher. “Scholars of the Bible will no doubt note the heroes, sages, and prophets of antiquity who were similarly spurned by the very people they came to raise up.”

She went on to say she wished there would be a biblical book named after Trump in the future.

“Would it be too much to pray for a day when the Bible gets a ‘Book of Trump,’ much like it has a ‘Book of Esther’ celebrating the deliverance of the Jews from ancient Persia?” Adelson asked.

The synagogue the Kushners go to have people who call Ivanka "Esther." Not sure how that works since Esther was a Jew to begin with while Ivanka was a gentile until she converted.

Ivanka Trump nicknamed a savior, Jewish queen Esther who stopped annihilation of Jews, by Jared Kushner's synagogue

Members of first daughter Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner's synagogue call her a savior, Esther, a Jewish queen who steered her husband, a Persian king, away from annihilating Jews.

The nickname for Trump, who converted to Judaism to marry Kushner who is Jewish, is detailed in a New York Magazine piece Monday by journalist Vanessa Grigoriadis, the narrator of the podcast "Tabloid: The Making of Ivanka Trump," by the magazine and Luminary Media which debuted the same day.

"At their synagogue, at least a few people began referring to Ivanka, the first Jewish member of an American First Family, by a new nickname, that of a savior," wrote Grigoriadis, who interviewed 60 of Trump's friends and colleagues.

Grigoriadis added that White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham "confirms that they called her Esther, after the beautiful Jewish wife of a Persian king who convinced him to cancel an order to annihilate the Jews."


Was Cyrus really a pagan? I thought he was likely a Zoroastrian. I think the wise men from the east were probably Zoroastrians too -- likely descendants of
I didn't mean to say 2 Cyrus's in the Bible...my intention is 2 types of Cyrus's
King Cyrus who helped free 2500 Jews, U.S. President Truman...helped Israel win back their state....and now Trump who declares Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
None of these leaders were/are "Christians".
God promised to restore Jerusalem back to it's holy land which must come to pass for Jesus return.
I see no reason to believe that. I have read the prophecies, and they don't say that to me. In fact, some prophecies have already been fulfilled; but Christians don't seem to know it.

I do not see God at work telling the Jews to return; and there are Jews who agree with me. They say God punished the Jews, and it's not up to men to decide when Jews should return. There is no need for another Temple with animal sacrifices. I think rebuilding the Temple and starting animal sacrifices again would be sinful. I also can't see why Jesus' return would depend on these things.
 
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Giuliano

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My dear, I am not moaning or groaning....yet :) who knows, a time might come when those sounds are voiced....and I question whether Jerusalem spoken of in the prophecies is that of the bricks and mortar in Palestine (latitude 31.76 N longitude 35.21 E). I doubt it, as it is hardly a City of Peace and doesn't look as if it ever will be, rather, the Jerusalem of prophecy is that of the New Earth spoken of in Revelation where no wicked thing enters.
Of course it is. There is also no further need for an earthly temple since John tells us about the one in the Holy City.
 
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Enoch111

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Of course it is. There is also no further need for an earthly temple since John tells us about the one in the Holy City.
That is incorrect. Only when the New Heavens and the New Earth have been established is there no HEAVENLY temple in the New Jerusalem. The earthly temple will exist for eternity. Study Ezekiel.
 

Giuliano

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That is incorrect. Only when the New Heavens and the New Earth have been established is there no HEAVENLY temple in the New Jerusalem. The earthly temple will exist for eternity. Study Ezekiel.
Man is the proper Temple of God.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Ezekiel was describing something he saw in a vision. When the Temple was rebuilt, I believe they used some of his plans but not all. I hope you don't think there are going to be animal sacrifices for eternity. Ezekiel talks about them too.
 
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quietthinker

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That is incorrect. Only when the New Heavens and the New Earth have been established is there no HEAVENLY temple in the New Jerusalem. The earthly temple will exist for eternity. Study Ezekiel.
Why is a temple necessary on Earth, Enoch?
 

Heart2Soul

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Netanyahu needs all the friends he can get; and he knows how to use flattery on Trump. I was shocked when the Israelis struck a Temple coin with Trump's face on it. What did Jesus say about money?

Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Netanyahu is practically making an idol of out Trump by putting his face on those half-shekels meant for the Temple tax.

Story here: The Temple Coin – Mikdash Educational Center

Miriam Adelson, whose husband is a big Republican donor, also struck me as idolatrous for a Jew. She wants a new book added to the Bible.

Miriam Adelson hopes there will be a biblical ‘Book of Trump’

The Israeli-American physician compared the president to biblical prophets in an article in which she asked why he has not enjoyed higher support among American Jews.

“That this has not been the case (so far, the 2020 election still beckons) is an oddity that will long be pondered by historians,” Adelson wrote in an an article for Israel Hayom, of which she is the publisher. “Scholars of the Bible will no doubt note the heroes, sages, and prophets of antiquity who were similarly spurned by the very people they came to raise up.”

She went on to say she wished there would be a biblical book named after Trump in the future.

“Would it be too much to pray for a day when the Bible gets a ‘Book of Trump,’ much like it has a ‘Book of Esther’ celebrating the deliverance of the Jews from ancient Persia?” Adelson asked.

The synagogue the Kushners go to have people who call Ivanka "Esther." Not sure how that works since Esther was a Jew to begin with while Ivanka was a gentile until she converted.

Ivanka Trump nicknamed a savior, Jewish queen Esther who stopped annihilation of Jews, by Jared Kushner's synagogue

Members of first daughter Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner's synagogue call her a savior, Esther, a Jewish queen who steered her husband, a Persian king, away from annihilating Jews.

The nickname for Trump, who converted to Judaism to marry Kushner who is Jewish, is detailed in a New York Magazine piece Monday by journalist Vanessa Grigoriadis, the narrator of the podcast "Tabloid: The Making of Ivanka Trump," by the magazine and Luminary Media which debuted the same day.

"At their synagogue, at least a few people began referring to Ivanka, the first Jewish member of an American First Family, by a new nickname, that of a savior," wrote Grigoriadis, who interviewed 60 of Trump's friends and colleagues.

Grigoriadis added that White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham "confirms that they called her Esther, after the beautiful Jewish wife of a Persian king who convinced him to cancel an order to annihilate the Jews."


Was Cyrus really a pagan? I thought he was likely a Zoroastrian. I think the wise men from the east were probably Zoroastrians too -- likely descendants of

I see no reason to believe that. I have read the prophecies, and they don't say that to me. In fact, some prophecies have already been fulfilled; but Christians don't seem to know it.

I do not see God at work telling the Jews to return; and there are Jews who agree with me. They say God punished the Jews, and it's not up to men to decide when Jews should return. There is no need for another Temple with animal sacrifices. I think rebuilding the Temple and starting animal sacrifices again would be sinful. I also can't see why Jesus' return would depend on these things.
https://www.history.com/topics/religion/zoroastrianism
Here is zoroastrianism history and beliefs.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Why is a temple necessary on Earth, Enoch?
I just watched a video of what Israel is doing today concerning the rebuilding of the temple.
I think they haven't got the same info as you have. They are following biblical prophesy.
 

Enoch111

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Why is a temple necessary on Earth, Enoch?
Only God knows the answer to that question. However, it is God Himself who has determined that for redeemed and restored Israel on earth, Jerusalem will also be redeemed and restored, and a pure temple of God will be erected on earth.

The prophecy of Ezekiel devotes seven chapters (40-47) to the future Millennial Temple in Jerusalem (tabernacle, temple, and sanctuary being interchangeable)! And God's Shekinah glory enters this temple to remain there eternally:

Afterward he brought me to the temple, and measured the posts, six cubits broad on the one side, and six cubits broad on the other side, which was the breadth of the tabernacle... (Ezek 41:1)

Then he brought me forth into the utter [outer] court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was before the building toward the north...(Ezek 42:1)

Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east: And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory... And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. (Ezek 43:1,2,4,5)