This really grabbed me today!

[face2face]

What a mess.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of Goddescending like a dove and alighting on him.17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

God called Him his Son before He was resurrected.

True nothing messy about that. John 20:17 The Son in the Flesh is much different than a Son with Power. One cannot see God and live while the other sits at His right side. Dont forget Firstborn from the dead! Spiritual creation!

 

[face2face]

Actually, what you said I was importing was a Romans passage….

Life in the Spirit
8 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

You just removed Jesus' dual nature - well done!

 

[Brakelite]

If the Christ was weak and we also share in his weakness,

I'm not sure what you are trying to extract from me other than the texts you posted, with which I agree. I'm not sure what else you need to know. Yes, Christ shared in our weakness, to bring heaven down to man, in order that we might share in His strength, bringing man up to heaven, and like Him have the power to overcome sin. Jacobs ladder. The top rung teaching the throne of grace, the bottom rung teaching earth.
What you need to do is to stop presuming I'm your normal every day garden variety card carrying trinitarian. Instead of trying to prove me to be something I'm not, just accept what I write here at face value. Christ died. The very fact that He died does disprove the Orthodox trinitarian declaration of all 3 members of the Godhead being equal in all things. It does not however disprove the divinity and deity of the Son of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You just removed Jesus' dual nature - well done!

No I didn’t.
He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have

 

[face2face]

What you need to do is to stop presuming I'm your normal every day garden variety card carrying trinitarian. Instead of trying to prove me to be something I'm not, just accept what I write here at face value. Christ died. The very fact that He died does disprove the Orthodox trinitarian declaration of all 3 members of the Godhead being equal in all things. It does not however disprove the divinity and deity of the Son of God.

Well that's a start i guess.
So you believe Christ had our very nature and was able to sin? Maybe, that would be a step to far for you?

 

[face2face]

No I didn’t.
He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have

So you can't have a divine immortal essence dwelling in a mortal corrupting body, which is what you (and Jesus share). He is either a divine being or a mortal man - never both.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well that's a start i guess.
So you believe Christ had our very nature and was able to sin? Maybe, that would be a step to far for you?

He was in human flesh but didn’t have a fallen, sin nature as we do. He was begotten of God not of a sinful man.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So you can't have a divine immortal essence dwelling in a mortal corrupting body,

Says who?
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of theDeity dwells in bodily form.

 

[face2face]

He was in human flesh but didn’t have a fallen, sin nature as we do. He was begotten of God not of a sinful man.

So the Christ didn't represent you at all, therefore the sacrifice God prepared cant atone for your sins?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So the Christ didn't represent you at all, therefore the sacrifice God prepared cant atone for your sins?

that makes no sense.

 

[face2face]

Says who?
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of theDeity dwells in bodily form.

True of his position now...absolutely - you are speaking to the New Creation right?

 

[face2face]

that makes no sense.

Well, you said Jesus didn't have your nature.

"didn’t have a fallen, sin nature as we do"

Explain what you mean by fallen sin nature?

His flesh and blood was no different to yours.

In mind he was sinless though.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

True of his position now...absolutely - you are speaking to the New Creation right?

No.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[face2face]

No.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Yes he was promised as we discussed ...a Son of Promise. But quoting Colossians 2:9 you realise that is speaking of the glorified Christ?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, you said Jesus didn't have your nature.

"didn’t have a fallen, sin nature as we do"

Explain what you mean by fallen sin nature?

His flesh and blood was no different to yours.

In mind he was sinless though.

He had a human body just like I do. He experienced hunger, thirst, pain, etc. He was even tempted. But He was begotten in a human body by God, not by the seed of fallen man.

 

[face2face]

not by the seed of fallen man.

Okay so there's your problem...for it was this very reason God made him of the seed of David Romans 1:3

Can you see the issue?

 

[Brakelite]

Well that's a start i guess.
So you believe Christ had our very nature and was able to sin? Maybe, that would be a step to far for you?

It's essential to believe that, otherwise He couldn't know what it was like to be truly tempted, and help is on our need.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

If you cannot see by what you read that all the fullness of God dwelt in Him before He was crucified, I can’t help you.

 

[Brakelite]

19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

If you cannot see by what you read that all the fullness of God dwelt in Him before He was crucified, I can’t help you.

Even before creation, just not bodily as a man.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay so there's your problem...for it was this very reason God made him of the seed of David Romans 1:3

Can you see the issue?

No, I can’t see the issue.
In his earthly life he was born into King David’s family line. But He was not of the seed of a man.