This world and the wicked are going up in a puff of smoke when Jesus come - thus negating Premil

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Truth7t7

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Soon to come will be the events leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus. when He will lead the world, a time of peace and prosperity, without sin until the end of that thousand years
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

robert derrick

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It does not matter what I want to see.
No, it does matter. You are prophesying a return of the Lord to destroy all flesh, and believe you will be resurrected and ruling with Him at the time.

And yet, you want no part of it.

It proves your own heart believes it is an evil thing to do.

Your prophesy is so evil, even you don't want to have anything to do with it.
 

WPM

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No, it does matter. You are prophesying a return of the Lord to destroy all flesh, and believe you will be resurrected and ruling with Him at the time.

And yet, you want no part of it.

It proves your own heart believes it is an evil thing to do.

Your prophesy is so evil, even you don't want to have anything to do with it.

There you go again - calling what Jesus says He will do when He comes evil. You really do not get it!

Amils believe what the Bible teaches, that is why they reject your Premil error. You have no answer to Amil, that is why all you can do is avoid their arguments and hurl ad hominem.
 

Keraz

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Anyone who thinks Jesus will kill everyone when He Returns, has failed to properly read Revelation and the many other Bible Prophesies that tell us He will return in glory and gather His people to Him, Matthew 24:30-31, and they will be His priests and co-rulers on earth. Revelation 5:9-10
The error of mixing up the Sixth Seal disaster, when millions will be killed worldwide, with the glorious Return, when Satans army will be killed at Armageddon, leads to a totally wrong end times scenario.
 

robert derrick

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There you go again - calling what Jesus says He will do when He comes evil. You really do not get it!

Amils believe what the Bible teaches, that is why they reject your Premil error. You have no answer to Amil, that is why all you can do is avoid their arguments and hurl ad hominem.
I wouldn't mind the false prophecy so much, if you'd at least own up to your own part in it.

In any case, your 'bystander' role after the resurrection, proves your whole imaginary spirit-only prophecy is of course false.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

I prefer the real thing. When I grew up, I stopped all the useless day-dreaming.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You don't want to see the slaughter of all flesh on earth?
Just because I believe that Jesus will destroy all unbelievers when He returns means that I want to see that happen as if I would enjoy it or something? How ridiculous. LOL. You need help.

How do you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Anyone who thinks Jesus will kill everyone when He Returns, has failed to properly read Revelation and the many other Bible Prophesies that tell us He will return in glory and gather His people to Him, Matthew 24:30-31, and they will be His priests and co-rulers on earth. Revelation 5:9-10
The error of mixing up the Sixth Seal disaster, when millions will be killed worldwide, with the glorious Return, when Satans army will be killed at Armageddon, leads to a totally wrong end times scenario.
Anyone who doesn't think He will kill all unbelievers when He returns doesn't believe what He Himself taught about what will happen when He returns.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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You seem to think ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross.
This sums up what you have to offer to this forum. Ridiculous insults. That's it. You know very well that no Christian here (regardless of their end times beliefs) thinks "ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross". You know that! Yet, you still said this, anyway. That says it all about you.
 

WPM

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This sums up what you have to offer to this forum. Ridiculous insults. That's it. You know very well that no Christian here (regardless of their end times beliefs) thinks "ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross". You know that! Yet, you still said this, anyway. That says it all about you.

That is all he has. He cannot address the basic Amil arguments on this thread.
 
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WPM

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I wouldn't mind the false prophecy so much, if you'd at least own up to your own part in it.

In any case, your 'bystander' role after the resurrection, proves your whole imaginary spirit-only prophecy is of course false.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


I prefer the real thing. When I grew up, I stopped all the useless day-dreaming.

According to your logic: is God not then wrong or evil to destroy the nations as the vessels of a potter are broken to shivers?
 

Timtofly

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This sums up what you have to offer to this forum. Ridiculous insults. That's it. You know very well that no Christian here (regardless of their end times beliefs) thinks "ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross". You know that! Yet, you still said this, anyway. That says it all about you.
You are quoting me out of context.

That was the context of his post, not mine.

You don't even seem to acknowledge what you even believe. Are you defending his position?

It is as ridiculous as his accusing post, which you seem to defend.
 

Timtofly

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That is all he has. He cannot address the basic Amil arguments on this thread.
I was addressing the mockery of God's Word you all Amil seem to like to throw out there as fact, when it is your own erroneous imagination at work.

The basic Argument is that God's Word as written is a waste of time, because obviously Amil eschatology is way more important than God's Word.
 

WPM

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I was addressing the mockery of God's Word you all Amil seem to like to throw out there as fact, when it is your own erroneous imagination at work.

The basic Argument is that God's Word as written is a waste of time, because obviously Amil eschatology is way more important than God's Word.

You obviously have nothing on Amil , so you resort to lies lately. I will take this as a sign that you are putting up the white flag.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are quoting me out of context.
You are lying. This is what you said to WPM:

Timtofly said: "You seem to think ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross.".

How can that be taken out of context? It's pretty straightforward. Why don't you just apologize for this insult instead of acting like I somehow took that very straightforward comment out of context?

That was the context of his post, not mine.
LOL. YOU said that, not him. I guarantee that he does not "think ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross", so for you to say that shows how judgmental you are and how clueless you are.

You don't even seem to acknowledge what you even believe. Are you defending his position?
What are you talking about? Do you even know?

It is as ridiculous as his accusing post, which you seem to defend.
What was ridiculous about it exactly? Is being specific too hard for you? You'd rather I just try to guess as to what exactly you're talking about?
 
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Phoneman777

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There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. Scripture deals a lot with the imperfection and suffering of this age and this world and is particularly highlighting the fact that this creation is not what God designed it to be. The theme is both consistent and well-defined.

But when Jesus comes He removes the old temporal corrupt arrangement and replaces it with a new perfect eternal arrangement. He will destroy anyone that does not belong to Him. He is coming to resurrect man, judge man, exercise perfect judgment, reward every man according to his works, glorify the redeemed and glorify all creation. He is introducing perfection forever. He will introduce a totally righteous and just arrangement devoid of all rebellion.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

Job is (by his own confession) including himself in the resurrection in view. He clearly identifies the great hope of the resurrection of the dead (which expressly here includes himself – an Old Testament saint) and places it at the time when the heavens (and therefore the current earth) pass away and consequently witness the appearance of the New Jerusalem at the last day. The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can rightly understand this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.”

This earth has been gradually degenerating since the Fall. That is why people lived a lot longer at the beginning and why the earth would have probably produced a great deal more bountifully. Because of its degenerating state, creation will be regenerated and brought back to its pristine state. We see that in Psalm 102:25-27, which predicts, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”

This earth is depicted in Scripture as gradually decaying to such a stage that it needs replaced. The surface of this earth is metaphorically likened unto a well-worn overcoat that needs replaced with a brand-new spotless garment. This is shown throughout the sacred pages to occur at the second coming. Christ is not going to replace the current tattered earthly coat with another deteriorating coat, as Premillennialists imagine. No! But rather a new perfected garment.

Jesus says of His coming in Matthew 24:35-39: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be.”

The removal of the current heaven and earth is here connected to the coming of the Lord. After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The coming of the Lord is presented as the closing day of time and history. It is a day that sees the final and total destruction of the wicked. In fact, after presenting the events that preceded the flood of Noah’s day that saw the obliteration of the wicked, Christ highlights the fact that the judgment “took them all away.” He then likens it to the day of His return, explaining, “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” All these associated elements are carefully brought together to demonstrate the climactic nature of Christ’s return.

Jesus said in Mark 13:24-26, 31-32: “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and gloryHeaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wiped. This contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

Jesus said in Luke 21:25-27, 33-36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great gloryHeaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Christ is exhorting His listeners here to be ready for His return, and that He will pour out his wrath upon all mankind who are not prepared, ready and rescued. He shows that this is the final event that sees the heavens and the earth shall pass away.

He is coming to rescue us and change us. We will look at that in more detail as we progress.

Can you see what happens to heaven and earth when Jesus comes? Can you see what happens to believers when Jesus comes? Can you see what happened to the wicked when Jesus comes?

They are destroyed by fire. The rebellion of the wicked is finally eliminated forever.
Peter says that when the day of the Lord Jesus' advent comes "as a thief in the night", there won't be seven more minutes of anything going on down here, let alone "7 years of tribulation" ;)
 
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robert derrick

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Just because I believe that Jesus will destroy all unbelievers when He returns means that I want to see that happen as if I would enjoy it or something? How ridiculous. LOL. You need help.
Good job.

However, since you refuse to get your hands dirty helping Him, then you won't be there ruling alongside with Him. And so you want be in the resurrection to see any of it in the first place.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.




How do you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
Obviously it's after the Millennium and then the final round up allowed for Satan on earth, and the last destruction of armies gathering against God's people on earth by fire. It doesn't say specifically that will be the fire to melt all the earth, but I suppose it would be a good time for it.
 

WPM

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Good job.

However, since you refuse to get your hands dirty helping Him, then you won't be there ruling alongside with Him. And so you want be in the resurrection to see any of it in the first place.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.





Obviously it's after the Millennium and then the final round up allowed for Satan on earth, and the last destruction of armies gathering against God's people on earth by fire. It doesn't say specifically that will be the fire to melt all the earth, but I suppose it would be a good time for it.

So, are you going to help batter the wicked until they are "broken to shivers" when Jesus comes?
 

Keraz

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So, are you going to help batter the wicked until they are "broken to shivers" when Jesus comes?
The Lord does not need our help to destroy all the ungodly peoples before He Returns.
But our approval and our praise to Him for doing it, is required. Zechariah 14:9
Note well; that verse plainly states that the Lord, [Jesus] will become King over all the earth....Totally refuting the false AMill belief.
 

robert derrick

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So, are you going to help batter the wicked until they are "broken to shivers" when Jesus comes?
Of course. That's the prophecy. I take God at His word, and I have no problem with power to slaughter the reprobates, that try to make war against Him.

It's why I would push the execution button for the raping murderer. We do it not just to punish the guilty, but also for the innocent, that they will not rape and murder again.

Since you say you will not be executing judgment alongside Him with rod of iron, then you will not be in the resurrection at His return.

This is why your false imaginary reign and prophecy of His return, is so pathetic. You don't even want to partake in it yourself.

There are no bystanders ruling with Christ during His Millennium on earth.
 

robert derrick

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According to your logic: is God not then wrong or evil to destroy the nations as the vessels of a potter are broken to shivers?
He won't. He doesn't lie and break His own prophecy to rule them.

If He were prophesying to kill them all instead, as you wish, then no, He would not be condemned for doing so.

However, according to His prophecy, He will be justified in killing all the armies in Judea, and executing all the goats, as well as a thousand years later burning up all Gog and Magog.