This world and the wicked are going up in a puff of smoke when Jesus come - thus negating Premil

[WPM]

If you really want to know the truth about this, then I would suggest doing a study on what scripture teaches about Christ reigning and His followers reigning with Him as priests (see 1 Peter 2:9 and Rev 1:5-6, for example). And do a study on the timing of the resurrection of the dead (see John 5:28-29, for example). And what it teaches about how many judgment days there will be (see Acts 17:30-31, Matthew 25:31-46 and other scriptures). And what it teaches about what will happen to all believers and what will happen to all unbelievers on the day Christ returns (2 Thess 1:7-10, 1 Thess 4:14-5:2-3, Matt 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-13, etc.). And then after doing that, see if it makes any sense for mortal life to continue on after He returns.

Well put!

 

[Keraz]

The world will survive the forthcoming Day of fire:
The Earth will Burn: 2 Peter 3:7 & 10, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 33:10-12

In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance. As we are once again ‘as in the days of Noah’, this terrible and devastating Day of fires, storms and earthquakes will soon strike the world, it will be the next prophesied event that will commence all that must happen, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

Psalms 46:1-11 The Lord is our refuge and stronghold, He will help us in trouble, so we are not afraid when the earth is shaking and the mountains move; when the waves of the sea roar and the earth is quaking before the Lords majesty. Nations are in an uproar and kingdoms fall when the Lord thunders; the earth burns.

Come and see what the Lord has done, the desolation He has brought on the earth. He makes wars to cease throughout the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the chariots in the fire.

There is a river whose flow brings joy to the city of God, the holy Place of the Most High. The Lord is within her, she will not be overthrown and at the break of Day, He will come to her aid.

Be still and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations and revered throughout the world. The Lord Almighty is with us, the God of Jacob is our Rock.

This describes how the Lord will judge and punish the nations and ‘the desolation He will bring to the earth’. He will destroy all weapons of war and military forces will be neutralized or wiped out, but the Lord promises ‘to be a refuge’ to His people, when at the ‘break of day, the sea roars, the earth quakes and burns’. It is His great Day of vengeance and wrath, a massive explosion of the suns surface that will bring about all the vividly described effects. We are warned to be prepared for that terrible Day, but our only true protection will be our faith and trust in the Lord. Isaiah 30:15-30

Isaiah 9:18-19 The ungodly will be set ablaze, as a fire that consumes briars and thorns. It sets the forests on fire and all is wrapped in a pall of smoke.
The land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people will be fuel for the fire. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27

Psalms 50:1-5 The Lord is coming and will not remain silent. From the sunrise to the sunset, A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and all around a great storm rages. He calls to the heavens above and the earth below, that He may judge His people.
Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who have made a Covenant with Me by sacrifice. 1 Peter 3:17

This is not the Return of Jesus in His glory, as that cannot happen until the Anti-Christ is revealed. 2 Thess. 2:3 It will be the Lord’s judgement and punishment of the nations, Psalms 110:5-6, Habakkuk 3:12, and all the world will be affected. It will be triggered by an attack on the State of Israel by an Islamic confederation. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12

The Lord’s people will be judged, Jeremiah 46:27-28, 1 Peter 4:17 and those who are His ‘loyal servants’, will be protected. Zechariah 9:15-16, Joel 3:16, Psalms 37:9, Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Thess.1:6-10

 

[Timtofly]

As you quoted, Mark’s says the stars will fall. This fits with Isaiah who speaks of the heavens “rolling up like a scroll.” Revelation 6 has a similar description. These descriptions are why I simply cannot except a millennial age following the second coming of Christ. It seems to me that not only earth but also earths solar system will be destroyed at his coming.

Certainly Satan's pseudo science of a universe goes up in a puff of smoke. It was never literal to begin with.

That God refutes Satan's science is not the same as removing the reality of a thousand years after the Second Coming. God's literal creation will still be here. Paradise is not destroyed at the Second Coming. Paradise is handed back with all of creation to God after the Day of the Lord, the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

The Premil theory can only survive by avoiding clear and repeat climactic Scripture. They have no answer to it. That is why they avoid threads like this like the plague. This is why Amils have to repeat their posts so often. It is impossible to get Premils to acknowledge and address this truth.

The millennium can only happen after this total destruction of sin and death, and the cleansing of the earth by fire.

Your verses prove the millennium cannot start until after this removel and restoration by the Lamb and the one sitting on the throne.

So I guess your theory of premil does survive as it is purified by fire and remains as the gold with the dross removed. Certainly Jesus does not burn up Himself and His reign, as that is the result, not what is destroyed.

 

[WPM]

The world will survive the forthcoming Day of fire:
The Earth will Burn: 2 Peter 3:7 & 10, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 33:10-12

In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance. As we are once again ‘as in the days of Noah’, this terrible and devastating Day of fires, storms and earthquakes will soon strike the world, it will be the next prophesied event that will commence all that must happen, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

Psalms 46:1-11 The Lord is our refuge and stronghold, He will help us in trouble, so we are not afraid when the earth is shaking and the mountains move; when the waves of the sea roar and the earth is quaking before the Lords majesty. Nations are in an uproar and kingdoms fall when the Lord thunders; the earth burns.

Come and see what the Lord has done, the desolation He has brought on the earth. He makes wars to cease throughout the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the chariots in the fire.

There is a river whose flow brings joy to the city of God, the holy Place of the Most High. The Lord is within her, she will not be overthrown and at the break of Day, He will come to her aid.

Be still and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations and revered throughout the world. The Lord Almighty is with us, the God of Jacob is our Rock.

This describes how the Lord will judge and punish the nations and ‘the desolation He will bring to the earth’. He will destroy all weapons of war and military forces will be neutralized or wiped out, but the Lord promises ‘to be a refuge’ to His people, when at the ‘break of day, the sea roars, the earth quakes and burns’. It is His great Day of vengeance and wrath, a massive explosion of the suns surface that will bring about all the vividly described effects. We are warned to be prepared for that terrible Day, but our only true protection will be our faith and trust in the Lord. Isaiah 30:15-30

Isaiah 9:18-19 The ungodly will be set ablaze, as a fire that consumes briars and thorns. It sets the forests on fire and all is wrapped in a pall of smoke.
The land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people will be fuel for the fire. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27

Psalms 50:1-5 The Lord is coming and will not remain silent. From the sunrise to the sunset, A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and all around a great storm rages. He calls to the heavens above and the earth below, that He may judge His people.
Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who have made a Covenant with Me by sacrifice. 1 Peter 3:17

This is not the Return of Jesus in His glory, as that cannot happen until the Anti-Christ is revealed. 2 Thess. 2:3 It will be the Lord’s judgement and punishment of the nations, Psalms 110:5-6, Habakkuk 3:12, and all the world will be affected. It will be triggered by an attack on the State of Israel by an Islamic confederation. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12

The Lord’s people will be judged, Jeremiah 46:27-28, 1 Peter 4:17 and those who are His ‘loyal servants’, will be protected. Zechariah 9:15-16, Joel 3:16, Psalms 37:9, Zephaniah 2:3, 2 Thess.1:6-10

You start off making a false claim and transpire to not prove it. This is classic Premil evidence.

 

[WPM]

The millennium can only happen after this total destruction of sin and death, andcthe cleansing of the earth by fire.

Your verses prove the millennium cannot start until after this removel and restoration by the Lamb and the one sitting on the throne.

So I guess your theory of premil does survive as it is purified by fire and remains as the gold with the dross removed. Certainly Jesus does not burn up Himself and His reign, as that is the result, not what is destroyed.

How can you say that? Your supposed future millennium is overrun by billions of wicked.

 

[Timtofly]

Ok. Let me try and help. Let us take one thing at a time.

Is there any second coming passage anywhere in Scripture that teaches there will be a thousand years period following that will include billions of sinful rebels against God?

So Revelation 20 is not a Second Coming passage?

I agree it is not a Second Coming passage.

The 1,000 years is the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming happens prior to the Day of the Lord.

Since the Day of the Lord is the one thousand year reign, then 2 Peter 3 is a chapter explaining both.

2 Peter 3 does not say the Second Coming is after the Day of the Lord. Nor does it say the Second Coming is at the last hour of the Day of the Lord.

 

[Keraz]

You start off making a false claim and transpire to not prove it. This is classic Premil evidence.

Your classic response is the ignore and reject the plainly stated Bible Prophesies.
They do say the most will be shocked and surprised as events happen. Acts 13:41 Too bad for you.

 

[Timtofly]

None. Only someone who is biased would try to say otherwise. Paul does not leave room for any exceptions there.


You made 3 posts at the beginning of this thread to back up your claim with scripture and you didn't even include 2 Peter 3:10-13. That's not a criticism. It just shows that there are clearly a number of other scriptures besides 2 Peter 3:10-13 which all teach the same thing - that Jesus Christ will destroy all of the wicked and even the earth itself on the day He returns.

Obviously he could not use 2 Peter 3. It is a Second Coming passage that shows what 1000 years is all about.

 

[Timtofly]

How can you say that? Your supposed future millennium is overrun by billions of wicked.

No it is not.

The rebellion is after the 1,000 years, not during. You cannot overrun the past, as that is not logical. Besides you have no proof even the percentage of who follows Satan compared to the rest of those on earth.

This is just made up nonsense, and you claim premil makes up such stuff. What happened to sticking with Scripture and leaving opinion out of the discussion?

 

[WPM]

No it is not.

The rebellion is after the 1,000 years, not during. You cannot overrun the past, as that is not logical. Besides you have no proof even the percentage of who follows Satan compared to the rest of those on earth.

This is just made up nonsense, and you claim premil makes up such stuff. What happened to sticking with Scripture and leaving opinion out of the discussion?

Hello! These phonies were already living in your imaginary millennium.

 

[jeffweeder]

Hello! These phonies were already living in your imaginary millennium.

Indeed they were.
They get to behold the glorified Christ at his coming with still no commitment. They would have us believe they actually breed for 1 thousand years, creating numbers like the sand of the seashore in order to be destroyed. Their children born think nothing of the glorified Christ in their midst. Super blind and totally wicked world with no tangible hope at all...unprecedented times of blindness.
If that is not a complete waste of time, I don't know what is.

 

[Timtofly]

Hello! These phonies were already living in your imaginary millennium.

They were not deceived. You could be deceieved tomorrow, and not even realize it. You think it takes hundreds of years to become deceived?

"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

This is a sudden development, not an ongoing obsession that Amil trump up.

 

[Timtofly]

Indeed they were.
They get to behold the glorified Christ at his coming with still no commitment. They would have us believe they actually breed for 1 thousand years, creating numbers like the sand of the seashore in order to be destroyed. Their children born think nothing of the glorified Christ in their midst. Super blind and totally wicked world with no tangible hope at all...unprecedented times of blindness.
If that is not a complete waste of time, I don't know what is.

Since this is not Scripture, this post can go in the trash can as made up nonsense.

You obviously think Paradise is just an assembly of devils as sure as you are about the future.

Obviously that is your answer with those you disagree with. You seem to think ill of God and His redemptive work on the Cross.

 

[robert derrick]

Pathetic slander like this is all you have to offer. No one can take you seriously when you say things like this.

You don't want to see the slaughter of all flesh on earth?

 

[WPM]

You don't want to see the slaughter of all flesh on earth?

Please address the avoided points:

Who are the sheep then, and who are the goats?

Your MO is to hit and run because you cannot abide biblical scrutiny. What are these sheep doing left behind in mortal sinful bodies if they are sheep? Surely the sheep are caught up to meet the Shepherd when He comes? This does not make sense!

 

[robert derrick]

Please address the avoided points:

Talk about a cop out. Do you or do you not want to see all flesh on earth destroyed, according to your own prophesy of it?


The problem with false prophets is, while they gleefully prophesy the destruction of all flesh, they don't actually want to have anything to do with it.

Their christ can do all the beating to death, but they don't want to get their hands slippery on any blood.

If there was such a prophecy of the Lord, and it is said I will be ruling with Him at the time, then I would be looking for it and doing it with Him.

I'm not a behind the lines coward.

 

[WPM]

Talk about a cop out. Do you or do you not want to see all flesh on earth destroyed, according to your own prophesy of it?


The problem with false prophets is, while they gleefully prophesy the destruction of all flesh, they don't actually want to have anything to do with it.

Their christ can do all the beating to death, but they don't want to get their hands slippery on any blood.

If there was such a prophecy of the Lord, and it is said I will be ruling with Him at the time, then I would be looking for it and doing it with Him.

I'm not a behind the lines coward.

More avoidance. You cannot answer simple questions because it would expose your false teaching.

You have done a 180 degree turn. A few weeks ago you had the Amils beating everyone to death with rods of iron. Now it is Jesus. You are all over the place. You really do not know what you believe.

 

[robert derrick]

You have done a 180 degree turn. A few weeks ago you had the Amils beating everyone to death with rods of iron. Now it is Jesus.

You have Jesus doing so at His return. But you refuse to participate. Now the question is if you even want to see it.

All of your so called prophetic scholarship has come down to one simple question about yourself:

Do you or do you not want to see all flesh on earth destroyed, according to your own prophesy of it?

 

[WPM]

You have Jesus doing so at His return. But you refuse to participate. Now the question is if you even want to see it.

All of your so called prophetic scholarship has come down to one simple question about yourself:

Do you or do you not want to see all flesh on earth destroyed, according to your own prophesy of it?

It does not matter what I want to see. It is what the Bible says. I agree with what it says, you do not. You foolishly (and dangerously) liken Jesus and His destruction to Hitler because He is going to destroy all flesh left behind when He returns. You have no answer to the Book. Your MO is to avoid any questions that expose your error. You also cannot address any rebuttals directly. All you have is insults and childishness. The reader can pick any thread and see the evidence.

Do you literally believe Christ is coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
Do you literally believe the wicked will experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
Do you literally believe the wicked "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
Do you literally believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
Do you literally believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
Do you literally believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
Do you literally believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
Do you literally believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?