Thought on Nero (Spirit of the Antichrist - Man of lawlessness - The Beast?)

[covenantee]

Who is the number of 666? 1 john Paul?

I dont choose neither of your suggestions.

The number can derived from the names of both Nero and the popes.

For the latter, their historical Roman identification was:

VICARIVS FILII DEI--Vicar of the Son of God

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
I = 1
V = 5

I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
I = 1
---------
Total 666

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Roman emperor Nero is considered one of history's greatest criminals. His name has become synonymous with evil, as historic accounts have accused him of killing his stepbrother, his wife and his mother, as well persecuting Christians and instigating the devastating Great Fire of Rome.

He exalted himself above God. Even claimed to dubb himself the Son of God, reports after his death was the “He was gonna come back again”

He was one mentioned by the number 666.

Just like the promises of Jesus, in that time period, does anyone have any thoughts on it?

No. Nero doesn't qualify.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The number can derived from the names of both Nero and the popes.

For the latter, their historical Roman identification was:

VICARIVS FILII DEI Vicar of the Son of God

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
I = 1
V = 5

I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
I = 1
---------
Total 666

Incorrect.

God gives no other number with which to count six hundred, sixty-six with. So we immediately discern that we are simply to count that one number. But how do we count six hundred sixty-six alone. There really is only one way, which is use the Bible as our example and count it the way other numbers are counted in Scripture. We count it as a spiritual number. And since it obviously is not upon all, but only part of the whole are marked deceived of Satan to worship the image, we count it as part of the whole. In other words, we count it as a fraction (part of the whole number). Not surprisingly, it all leads us to the very same conclusion. To answer any objection, in context, counting as a fraction is Biblically justifiable because it is referring to a part of the whole. Or more specifically, the 666 refers to those who are to be cut off from the whole by reason of their being deceived (marked), of the beast. This in relationship to the part that God says will not be marked of the beast (The faithful of God), and whom we are told would be killed because of their faithfulness.

So we have two fractions or two parts. Those who will refuse to worship the beast and so be killed are numbered with God, one part. And those who worship the beast and receive his mark, are numbered with him as his part. So what is the number six hundred, sixty, and six "counted" as a fraction or as part of this whole? It breaks down to two thirds. And no surprise, this correlates perfectly with God's Word because in the Scriptures God uses the division of 1/3 to symbolize the truly Saved who are brought through the fire and refined of God, and 2/3 as those who are to be cut off from God. And these marked of the beast are those designated to forsake God and be deceived (cut off) of the beast.
An illustration of this spiritual division can be seen in the third part of the shekel that was to be used for the work of the Sanctuary, which illustrates the work of the believer justified in the work of Christ. Or in the prophesy of the coming Messiah, and man is numbered, we see Christ takes only the 'true believers' through the fire to cleanse them (Salvation), and we read that it was numbered 2/3 that were to be cut off. This is six hundred and sixty and six, counted as a fraction of the whole.

Zechariah 13:7-9

• "Awake, O Sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man that is My fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: Smite the Shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn Mine hand upon the little ones.
• And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, Two Parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third part shall be left therein.
• And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is My people: and they shall say, the Lord is My God."

Two parts therein, or, two parts of the congregation are to be cut off, and one part saved. The Lord our God has assigned the number (fraction) to "count" those whom Christ will bring to Salvation and the number in His house who will be cut off. A remnant will be saved, and the rest are deceived and cut off. The true believers are numbered as 1/3, and the unsaved who are cut off from God are numbered as 2/3. So here we have GOD'S defining a NUMBER of the whole that represents man being cut off from God. And He (not I) defines it as 2/3. And again, this correlates perfectly to what God said about the number of man who will buy and sell, being the number six hundred and sixty and six (2/3). This number being written in the forehead and hand is an illustration that the spiritual condition of their mind, and the works of the hands, are of this carnality or beast that they serve

 

[covenantee]

Incorrect.

God gives no other number with which to count six hundred, sixty-six with. So we immediately discern that we are simply to count that one number. But how do we count six hundred sixty-six alone. There really is only one way, which is use the Bible as our example and count it the way other numbers are counted in Scripture. We count it as a spiritual number. And since it obviously is not upon all, but only part of the whole are marked deceived of Satan to worship the image, we count it as part of the whole. In other words, we count it as a fraction (part of the whole number). Not surprisingly, it all leads us to the very same conclusion. To answer any objection, in context, counting as a fraction is Biblically justifiable because it is referring to a part of the whole. Or more specifically, the 666 refers to those who are to be cut off from the whole by reason of their being deceived (marked), of the beast. This in relationship to the part that God says will not be marked of the beast (The faithful of God), and whom we are told would be killed because of their faithfulness.

So we have two fractions or two parts. Those who will refuse to worship the beast and so be killed are numbered with God, one part. And those who worship the beast and receive his mark, are numbered with him as his part. So what is the number six hundred, sixty, and six "counted" as a fraction or as part of this whole? It breaks down to two thirds. And no surprise, this correlates perfectly with God's Word because in the Scriptures God uses the division of 1/3 to symbolize the truly Saved who are brought through the fire and refined of God, and 2/3 as those who are to be cut off from God. And these marked of the beast are those designated to forsake God and be deceived (cut off) of the beast.
An illustration of this spiritual division can be seen in the third part of the shekel that was to be used for the work of the Sanctuary, which illustrates the work of the believer justified in the work of Christ. Or in the prophesy of the coming Messiah, and man is numbered, we see Christ takes only the 'true believers' through the fire to cleanse them (Salvation), and we read that it was numbered 2/3 that were to be cut off. This is six hundred and sixty and six, counted as a fraction of the whole.

Zechariah 13:7-9

• "Awake, O Sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man that is My fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: Smite the Shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn Mine hand upon the little ones.
• And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, Two Parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third part shall be left therein.
• And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is My people: and they shall say, the Lord is My God."

Two parts therein, or, two parts of the congregation are to be cut off, and one part saved. The Lord our God has assigned the number (fraction) to "count" those whom Christ will bring to Salvation and the number in His house who will be cut off. A remnant will be saved, and the rest are deceived and cut off. The true believers are numbered as 1/3, and the unsaved who are cut off from God are numbered as 2/3. So here we have GOD'S defining a NUMBER of the whole that represents man being cut off from God. And He (not I) defines it as 2/3. And again, this correlates perfectly to what God said about the number of man who will buy and sell, being the number six hundred and sixty and six (2/3). This number being written in the forehead and hand is an illustration that the spiritual condition of their mind, and the works of the hands, are of this carnality or beast that they serve

Where is this found in historical Christian orthodoxy?

 

[MatthewG]

Good to know that Nero, is one of the choices, @covenantee.

I'll pick him, as a personal choice.

A lot of the issues is with the dating of revelation which people suggest was before the fall of the temple, and it's weird that John being a jew doesn't mention its destruction as in "Dont be like my brothers who didn't listen or whatever", and also if the dating was around 96, John would have been much older and not been able to go reach the others he was foretold to go and reach.

Therefore it's a matter of, debate on dates.

I go and personally choice "pre-70AD", dating, while tradition says 96 or whatever.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Where is this found in historical Christian orthodoxy?

It is found within the 66 books of the Bible which is my credentials and authority - - the only credentials worth anything in the hands of the faithful messengers of God. Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit of God. Sorry any Ph.D. or church traditions cannot hold a candle to the authority of this document.

 

[MatthewG]

@TribulationSigns thank you for your nero doesn't qualify opinion. WElcome to Christianforums you are free to think and believe what you will and want to from my perspective, aint no one got authority here, and you can't use the bible as authority unless you are an Apostle. Only one that has true authority is God, and of course our governing systems.

 

[covenantee]

It is found within the 66 books of the Bible which is my credentials and authority - - the only credentials worth anything in the hands of the faithful messengers of God. Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit of God. Sorry any Ph.D. or church traditions cannot hold a candle to the authority of this document.

Are you the sole and exclusive bearer of such credentials and authority in the entirety of the historical Christian Church?

 

[covenantee]

Good to know that Nero, is one of the choices, @covenantee.

I'll pick him, as a personal choice.

A lot of the issues is with the dating of revelation which people suggest was before the fall of the temple, and it's weird that John being a jew doesn't mention its destruction as in "Dont be like my brothers who didn't listen or whatever", and also if the dating was around 96, John would have been much older and not been able to go reach the others he was foretold to go and reach.

Therefore it's a matter of, debate on dates.

I go and personally choice "pre-70AD", dating, while tradition says 96 or whatever.

You're free to choose.

Just be aware of the origin of your choice.

Many are not aware.

Are you interested in knowing why the Reformers' choice was the better choice?

 

[MatthewG]

You're free to choose.

Just be aware of the origin of your choice.

Many are not aware.

Are you interested in knowing why the Reformers' choice was the better choice?

You can freely share why you believe the Reformers choice is a better choice, but that still doesn't answer if Nero is noted as 666, why is it your choice to not accept him as the man of lawlessness? The latter question is more interesting to me. Reformation agenda doesn't bear any weight to me, personally.

 

[TribulationSigns]

@TribulationSigns thank you for your nero doesn't qualify opinion. WElcome to Christianforums you are free to think and believe what you will and want to from my perspective, aint no one got authority here, and you can't use the bible as authority unless you are an Apostle. Only one that has true authority is God, and of course our governing systems.

You clearly do not understand the nature and purpose of the authority of Scripture.

The Word of God alone (Sola Scriptura), is the sole supreme authority for Christians in faith, instruction, doctrine, and practice which I and all true Christians testify of. We have been given authority in Christ as children of God per Luke 10:19, Ephesians 6:10-11,13, etc. According to Jesus and the teaching of the Bible, we have been given authority to carry out the purposes of God in advancing His Kingdom, healing the spiritually sick, and defeating the works of Satan and the powers of darkness. Much like a police officer has been given the right, warrant, and ability to exercise authority as an agent representing an entity with the power to enforce the authority used, we too have the representative authority to establish, enforce and carry out God’s will as King here on earth as it is in Heaven. So no, the authority was not limited only to the apostles but all chosen believers in Christ.

 

[covenantee]

You can freely share why you believe the Reformers choice is a better choice, but that still doesn't answer if Nero is noted as 666, why is it your choice to not accept him as the man of lawlessness? The latter question is more interesting to me. Reformation agenda doesn't bear any weight to me, personally.

2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The temple of God here is a reference to the Church. Paul used it a number of times in his epistles e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19

Nero did not sit in the Church.

But the apostate papacy did. It claimed to be the only true church, and still does.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont believe in the doctrine (Sola Scriptura).

I do believe in contextual explanation and holistic, teachings.

Your gonna have trouble with me, @TribulationSigns.

 

[MatthewG]

2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The temple of God here is a reference to the Church. Paul used it a number of times in his epistles e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19

Nero did not sit in the Church.

But the apostate papacy did. It claimed to be the only true church, and still does.

That letter was written to the Thessalonians,

I remember a story about when the first temple was took over, someone brought in the things that were from the temple into their house, and then the finger of God killed the king at the party (Daniel?)

Someone could have brought into the second temple something that defiled it, which called an uproar (abomination of desolation), that could have been after nero had died. (Perhaps a statue of someone)?

Also, the temple was destroyed before the papacy ever came around?

All the best, I dont know everything but I have some ideas.

 

[MatthewG]

@covenantee

There many claims that are 'the one true church', but the true church (assembly today) is a body of believers now today from the heart and they are the temple which God pours the holy spirit into their heart as believers who are adopted into the Kingdom of God which is spiritual. They are part of a body which has believers in heaven as family, and family here that are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, and refresh one another in trusting and looking towards God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Are you the sole and exclusive bearer of such credentials and authority in the entirety of the historical Christian Church?

Sole?! LOL. Where did the Lord tell you about me in His Holy Word? No? I am not going to discuss any further about the authority of Scripture here as some of you obviously do not understand.

Anyway...better stick to OP in regard about Nero, all I can say is as usual with these types of inaccurate theories, it is based upon men's assumptions.

"Assumption is the mother of errors!"​

For example, these early dates theorized as the time of the writing of the Revelation are based on an unbiblical interpretation that the events prophesied were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and thus placing its writing in the 60's. This 70 AD theory is one of the most destructive assumptions that has plagued Christianity in many areas of its theology and eschatology. The early date held mostly by Preterists (and "historical Christian Church") assumes the persecution of believers in John 1:9 refers to the Neronian persecution, and that the beast is a symbol of the Roman Empire and Caesar (Babylon being a symbol of Rome). But the truth is that all of this is speculation and assumption and not really scholarship at all.

That's all I have to say on this thread.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I dont believe in the doctrine (Sola Scriptura).

Surprise, surprise.

I do believe in contextual explanation and holistic, teachings.

Ahh I can see why.

Your gonna have trouble with me, @TribulationSigns.

Actually, you gonna have trouble with God's Word.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing someone else's opinion, @TribulationSigns.

All the best to you.

Love you, and you have to choose for yourself my friend.



( I can't be asked to really argue, only give out open information )

I could argue all day, that is easy.

 

[Marty fox]

The Roman emperor Nero is considered one of history's greatest criminals. His name has become synonymous with evil, as historic accounts have accused him of killing his stepbrother, his wife and his mother, as well persecuting Christians and instigating the devastating Great Fire of Rome.

He exalted himself above God. Even claimed to dubb himself the Son of God, reports after his death was the “He was gonna come back again”

He was one mentioned by the number 666.

Just like the promises of Jesus, in that time period, does anyone have any thoughts on it?

I believe that Nero was the personification of the beast. The beast I believe was a powerful demonic being in control of Rome and it’s leaders.

The antichrist is described differently than the beast by John and John even gives them different purpose

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that Nero was the personification of the beast. The beast I believe was a powerful demonic being in control of Rome and it’s leaders.

The antichrist is described differently than the beast by John and John even gives them different purpose

Hello Marty Fox,

While I believe that today there can still be many people whom are antichrist in general whom either reject the reality that he came in the flesh, or simply be against openly against Christ in general, due to unbelief that God exist.

What are some of the things that you could point me to in your findings?