Thought on Nero (Spirit of the Antichrist - Man of lawlessness - The Beast?)

[MatthewG]

Marty, i believe he could have been both. Its just personal choice. Are you a person who believes things are still to come in the future, if so, why?

 

[strepho]

Nero had a unclean spirit. He was evil person. He was pagan. Hitler was pagan and a evil person. Same with Stalin or delilah in the bible.
Psalm chapter 37, the wicked will be destroyed.
666 is the number of the kenites and satan as antichrist.
Goliath was 6 cubits, six pieces of armour, 1 samuel 17.
Nebuchadnezzar, whose image which he set up, was 60 cubits high and 6 cubits broad, Daniel chapter 3.
Pride is the key. Ezekiel chapter 28, pride was satan's downfall.
Ezra 2:13. The children of Adonikam, the nethinims, are kenites, who returned from captivity. Numbered 666. These kenites are offspring of satan. His children. Get the picture.

Revelation chapter 13. The number 666 relates to antichrist. Of you wont study genesis in the bible. You might not ever understand who the kenites are??.
Matthew chapter 13, Jesus taught parable of the wheat and Tares. The wheat are children of abraham. The tares are children of the devil.
Corinthians chapter 11,Satan beguiled eve in garden of eden. Sexual relations. Get the picture.
Study the bible.

 

[covenantee]

Sole?! LOL. Where did the Lord tell you about me in His Holy Word? No? I am not going to discuss any further about the authority of Scripture here as some of you obviously do not understand.

Anyway...better stick to OP in regard about Nero, all I can say is as usual with these types of inaccurate theories, it is based upon men's assumptions.

"Assumption is the mother of errors!"​

For example, these early dates theorized as the time of the writing of the Revelation are based on an unbiblical interpretation that the events prophesied were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and thus placing its writing in the 60's. This 70 AD theory is one of the most destructive assumptions that has plagued Christianity in many areas of its theology and eschatology. The early date held mostly by Preterists (and "historical Christian Church") assumes the persecution of believers in John 1:9 refers to the Neronian persecution, and that the beast is a symbol of the Roman Empire and Caesar (Babylon being a symbol of Rome). But the truth is that all of this is speculation and assumption and not really scholarship at all.

That's all I have to say on this thread.

Innumerable individuals and groups over the two millennia of NT Christianity have claimed, as do you, to be the sole and exclusive purveyors of truth.

They are known by one name in common.

Cults.

 

[Marty fox]

Then from there you have the Roman Jewish War, i have that book too.

Yes I have one too

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, i believe he could have been both. Its just personal choice. Are you a person who believes things are still to come in the future, if so, why?

But how could he be both when John names them describes them and even shows a different purpose for them?

The AC is more like the land beast also known as the false prophet than the sea beast.

I believe that most of revelation has happened but not all

 

[MatthewG]

You have to show me what you are talking about, Marty.

Cause I can't just go on the replies that you are given to me, I may have answer I may not, and of course always its up the individuals to decide of course.

Oh that is cool you believe most has happened already, but not all.

I can respect your view.

Thank you for asking,
Matthew

 

[Marty fox]

You have to show me what you are talking about, Marty.

Cause I can't just go on the replies that you are given to me, I may have answer I may not, and of course always its up the individuals to decide of course.

Oh that is cool you believe most has happened already, but not all.

I can respect your view.

Thank you for asking,
Matthew

Thanks

If you again read the study I posted to you about the AC and then read what revelation says about the sea beast in revelation 13 & 17 then you will see that they have very descriptions, names and purposes from the very same person John

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Matthew here is a study that I did on the antichrist which is much different from the beast in two parts
so that it will fit

Who and what is the antichrist?

There are only four verses in the entire bible that uses the word antichrist

1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Many Christians believe that the antichrist will be the future evil world ruler of the book of Revelation who will rule the world during the end times but is that what the bible actually teaches?

It is interesting that John the disciple who wrote the four verses mentioning the word antichrist was the same John who wrote the book of Revelation. It is also interesting that John didn’t use the word antichrist in the book of Revelation. Why would this be? Could it be that the antichrist John wrote about in his epistles is different from the one most Christians believe to be the antichrist in the book of Revelation?

John used the word beast to describe the evil persecuting world leader in the book of Revelation and its description and character is much different from the description and character of the antichrist. The beast is described symbolically as a ten horned seven headed creature who rules the world and persecutes the saints.

Let’s look at who and what John says is the antichrist.

1 John 2:18-27
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John is showing us that the antichrist isn’t just one person but many people. John is also stating that the antichrist was present before, after and during his day. John also states that the antichrist is the opposite of truth and John tells us in the verse below that Jesus is truth

John 14:6
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Thus this antichrist who John says is a liar is antichrist because it is the opposite of truth which is Jesus who is the Christ.

The question the comes to my mind, is all if these letters written by the same John, and are they all written to the 7 churches and because of already given warning was there any reason he needed to mention the antichrist again?

Why would it be some future date, or someone else if Jesus was coming then in his day?

 

[MatthewG]

Part 2
Let’s look at what else John says is the antichrist.

1 John 4:1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Once again John tells us that this antichrist is not just one but many. John tells us again that the antichrist was present in his day and John also tells us that the antichrist is not just people but it is actually a spirit. Let’s take a look at the last time that John mentions the word antichrist.

2 John 1:4-11
4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

John tells us once again that the antichrist isn’t just one but many. John then goes on to say that this antichrist is the deceiving spirit who denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Jesus Christ coming in the flesh means that the Man Jesus is the Christ the anointed one the Messiah the son of God.

When we read all four verses that uses the word antichrist it seems that he was meaning apostate Israel in his day. Apostate Israel was active when John wrote these words and they denied that Jesus was the Christ by denying Jesus they also denied the Father. Antichrist is not complete in apostate Israel but they do fit the description John gave in his day.

The antichrist is much different from the sea beast in the book of Revelation. The sea beast purpose is to rule the earth to be worshipped as god, destroy Babylon the great and to try to wipeout the church. The antichrist purpose to deceive and to divert people away from the Messiah Jesus the Christ. The antichrist is more like the land beast from the book of Revelation also known as the false prophet.

In conclusion John teaches in the bible that the antichrist is not a future evil world leader but a deceiving spirit within many people who was present in John’s day and whose purpose was to divert people away from the true Messiah Jesus the Christ. John used different titles for the beast and the antichrist for a reason and John showed us what those reasons were.

It seems that John was also writing about the Mystics “who said that Jesus wasnt coming in the flesh”, or he wasnt real born with flesh he was just some spirit, this can be a spiritual principle simply to look out for now today. Cause just about every christians i know believe Jesus came died, was buried and resurrected.

However their could be people that say otherwise.

 

[MatthewG]

You also brought up Revelation 13 and 17.

Revelation 13​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,​

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2 and the beast that I saw was like to a leopard, and its feet as of a bear, and its mouth as the mouth of a lion, and the dragon did give to it his power, and his throne, and great authority.​

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3 And I saw one of its heads as slain to death, and its deadly stroke was healed, and all the earth did wonder after the beast,​

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4 and they did bow before the dragon who did give authority to the beast, and they did bow before the beast, saying, `Who [is] like to the beast? who is able to war with it?'​

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5 And there was given to it a mouth speaking great things, and evil-speakings, and there was given to it authority to make war forty-two months,​

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6 and it did open its mouth for evil-speaking toward God, to speak evil of His name, and of His tabernacle, and of those who in the heaven tabernacle,​

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7 and there was given to it to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and there was given to it authority over every tribe, and tongue, and nation.​

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8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;​

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9 if any one hath an ear -- let him hear:​

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10 if any one a captivity doth gather, into captivity he doth go away; if any one by sword doth kill, it behoveth him by sword to be killed; here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.​

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11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the land, and it had two horns, like a lamb, and it was speaking as a dragon,​

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12 and all the authority of the first beast doth it do before it, and it maketh the land and those dwelling in it that they shall bow before the first beast, whose deadly stroke was healed,​

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13 and it doth great signs, that fire also it may make to come down from the heaven to the earth before men,​

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14 and it leadeth astray those dwelling on the land, because of the signs that were given it to do before the beast, saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the beast that hath the stroke of the sword and did live,​

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15 and there was given to it to give a spirit to the image of the beast, that also the image of the beast may speak, and [that] it may cause as many as shall not bow before the image of the beast, that they may be killed.​

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16 And it maketh all, the small, and the great, and the rich, and the poor, and the freemen, and the servants, that it may give to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads,​

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17 and that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.​

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18 Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number [is] 666.​

Revelation 17​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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17 And there came one of the seven messengers, who were having the seven vials, and he spake with me, saying to me, `Come, I will shew to thee the judgment of the great whore, who is sitting upon the many waters,​

2 with whom the kings of the earth did commit whoredom; and made drunk from the wine of her whoredom were those inhabiting the earth;'​

3 and he carried me away to a wilderness in the Spirit, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of evil-speaking, having seven heads and ten horns,​

4 and the woman was arrayed with purple and scarlet-colour, and gilded with gold, and precious stone, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and uncleanness of her whoredom,​

5 and upon her forehead was a name written: `Secret, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Whores, and the Abominations of the earth.'​

6 And I saw the woman drunken from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the witnesses of Jesus, and I did wonder -- having seen her -- with great wonder;​

7 and the messenger said to me, `Wherefore didst thou wonder? I -- I will tell thee the secret of the woman and of the beast that [is] carrying her, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns.​

8 `The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.​

9 `Here [is] the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,​

10 and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;​

11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.​

12 `And the ten horns that thou sawest, are ten kings, who a kingdom did not yet receive, but authority as kings the same hour do receive with the beast,​

13 these have one mind, and their own power and authority to the beast they shall give over;​

14 these with the Lamb shall make war, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because Lord of lords he is, and King of kings, and those with him are called, and choice, and stedfast.'​

15 And he saith to me, `The waters that thou didst see, where the whore doth sit, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues;'​

16 and the ten horns that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire,​

17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,​

18 and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.'​

Wasn't the whore Israel ? Revelation 11:8; We are also missing chapters 14,15,16. Which may also hold insights. But definitely very big and very broad subject, Marty.

 

[Marty fox]

The question the comes to my mind, is all if these letters written by the same John, and are they all written to the 7 churches and because of already given warning was there any reason he needed to mention the antichrist again?

Why would it be some future date, or someone else if Jesus was coming then in his day?

The coming was a coming in judgement.

The point isn't if he needed to write about the AC or not its that John describes and names them differently and even gives them a different purpose thus they can't be the same

 

[Marty fox]

It seems that John was also writing about the Mystics “who said that Jesus wasnt coming in the flesh”, or he wasnt real born with flesh he was just some spirit, this can be a spiritual principle simply to look out for now today. Cause just about every christians i know believe Jesus came died, was buried and resurrected.

However their could be people that say otherwise.

In Johns day the perfect description was apostate Isreal especially when you Read what Jesus says about them in John's gospel.

Its a spirit within them

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, Marty.

I don't think I can resolve something that you believe needs to come to fruition today, my friend.
Not that you wanted too, but I can still respect you as a brother in Christ.

You are free to share with me what you believe, but as it stands for now I believe that perhaps Nero was possessed by Satan - in which made him the antichrist.

I dont know for sure, but I still see Jesus having the victory over all things, and hope you can also respect the viewpoints that I have.

The subject still stands open for anyone to come and comment on and about.

All the best in Christ, and may the God of comfort be with you and family,
Matthew

 

[Marty fox]

You also brought up Revelation 13 and 17.

Revelation 13​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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Revelation 17​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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Wasn't the whore Israel ? Revelation 11:8; We are also missing chapters 14,15,16. Which may also hold insights. But definitely very big and very broad subject, Marty.

Yes Jerusalem was the whore Babylon the great

 

[Marty fox]

Okay, Marty.

I don't think I can resolve something that you believe needs to come to fruition today, my friend.
Not that you wanted too, but I can still respect you as a brother in Christ.

You are free to share with me what you believe, but as it stands for now I believe that perhaps Nero was possessed by Satan - in which made him the antichrist.

I dont know for sure, but I still see Jesus having the victory over all things, and hope you can also respect the viewpoints that I have.

The subject still stands open for anyone to come and comment on and about.

All the best in Christ, and may the God of comfort be with you and family,
Matthew

Thank you Matthew

Nero was deffintley possessed by a satanic being which I believe was a demonic being over Rome just like we see that different demons are over different nations in Daniel chapter 10. Satan has different demons doing different purposes

I'm not sure what you mean by "I dont know for sure, but I still see Jesus having the victory over all things, " Jesus does have victory over all things was that a typo?

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you Matthew

Nero was deffintley possessed by a satanic being which I believe was a demonic being over Rome just like we see that different demons are over different nations in Daniel chapter 10. Satan has different demons doing different purposes

I'm not sure what you mean by "I dont know for sure, but I still see Jesus having the victory over all things, " Jesus does have victory over all things was that a typo?

Marty,

(I wrote this in excitement)

I just say I dont know cause, people gotta go figure things out and it tough (I dont know everything and also people should be allowed to believe what they will however be encouraged to also seek for truth because truth will set one free from the bondage of traditions, of mom and dad, pastors, whatever all in faith towards God and the Lord.)

You had said that you believe most of the revelation is done but not all,
(Thats fine! I love you just because you are you!) and you are also of Christ and deserve no condemnation.


I believe it all done and just believe totally in freely in no condemnation of JEsus Christ and his victory today and that people come to him in faith and they make a choice to follow him and die to the self, and bury the old life with Christ, and raise to newness of life while everyone starts off as babes. They are able to mature and grow in their relationship being in connection with the Father through Christ Jesus, and that is all amazing and beautiful to me that God is good and that we have this connection now today, and many people are called, but some people have yet to come to faith there ar epople still growing and there are people who also doubt and lose faith just like the parable of the woer, all the best to each and every member of this board.

Especially with no teachers to teach on subjects like this - I gave you some references and the only reference of a commentator on all of revelation is open information, but of course obscure at best if anyone wants to go and check him out, his name is Shawn.

Shawn McCraney

Shawn McCraney, in order of his nature, is an artist, a seeker of Truth and authentic expression, an iconoclast and a punk who maintains a large dose of suspicion for cultures, institutions, and consumerism and the marketing that surrounds it.

shawnmccraney.com

Page Not Found — Shawn McCraney

shawnmccraney.com

This is open to anyone who is willing to go see, and most will reject even considering it's all bound to the individual, he has some amazing work done on Revelation as he taught it for 2 years going verse by verse, and it's all subjective if a person is curious to look in to these matters or not.

I also support anyone who goes and reads revelation, and also seeks and desires to know what is true and what those things are about there is just so much information out there, and may God guide to the truth, and may we all be lead by the spirit.

and in Christ I love and respect all of you on this board and honestly hope for the best in your life and your family's life and your friends life and your enemies life.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Innumerable individuals and groups over the two millennia of NT Christianity have claimed, as do you, to be the sole and exclusive purveyors of truth.

They are known by one name in common.

Cults.

Don’t make any sense. Regardless. Nero is NOT the correct answer. Stick with OP.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm asking when these things happened in history. If the fire from heaven were a trebuchet, would it be a miracle? I'm thinking it would just be a common part of warfare.

I haven't seen historical reports of someone calling fire from heaven except in the Bible, Elijah. I'm not aware of the beast's mark being given as a means to control buying and selling. I've studied Revelation 13 a fair amount, so I'm familiar with what it foretells, I'm just not aware of these things being fulfilled in the past. So I'm thinking it's still future.

Much love!

Preterism is bad news mark . real bad news .

 

[covenantee]

Don’t make any sense. Regardless. Nero is NOT the correct answer. Stick with OP.

You're right, they don't.

So why are you trying to be one?

 

[marks]

Preterism is bad news mark . real bad news .

Some prophecy is fulfilled, some not. We need to pay attention to the details, and not ignore any parts. If it hasn't happened yet, it just hasn't!

Much love!