Thoughts on Church Unity

[ScottA]

I am not talking about the flesh. I am talking about the unbiblical disdain you guys have for physical matter.
Matter conveys grace all over the place in Scripture: baptism confers regeneration (Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; cf. Mk 16:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5). Paul’s “handkerchiefs” healed the sick (Acts 19:12), as did even Peter’s shadow (Acts 5:15), and of course, Jesus’ garment (Mt 9:20-22) and saliva mixed with dirt (Jn 9:5 ff.; Mk 8:22-25), as well as water from the pool of Siloam (Jn 9:7)...and lots more.
Anointing with oil for healing is encouraged (Jas 5:14). We also observe in Scripture the laying on of hands for the purpose of ordination and commissioning (Acts 6:6; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6) to facilitate the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17-19; 13:3; 19:6), and for healing (Mk 6:5; Lk 13:13; Acts 9:17-18). Even under the old covenant, a dead man was raised simply by coming in contact with the bones of the prophet Elisha (2 Kings 13:21) — which is also one of the direct evidences for the Catholic practice of the veneration of relics (itself an extension of the sacramental principle)
You guys reject the incarnation principle, and don't even allow art of any kind. You are on the border of Manichaenism, a 3rd century heresy that pits matter (flesh) against spirit. It's a mindset revealed in your reply. "the flesh profits nothing" has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said.

You quoting me quoting Jesus and calling us both wrong, tells all. "The flesh profits nothing" John 6:63

No, you misunderstand. "Obey your leaders..." means there are leaders in the first place. Individuals with private interpretation is not leadership. it's chaos, the very foundation of non-denoms, a pillar of sand. You are your own leader, borrowing a little from Calvinism and a little from Baptist theology, and a little from Luther, here, there...

This is only true of the world, but we are not of the world, nor are we to walk according to it.

No, I have the witness of history, you are forced the re-write history to make it fit your preconceptions and man made traditions. Whatever authentic "truth" you have came from the Catholic Church you despise, including the Bible itself.

This is to your shame. Do you not know that by this you are judged as one who chose death over Life?

Whom did the Lord say to follow...and whom have you followed? I tell you, you follow the first Adam - not the Last!

You can't carry on a rational discussion. From the beginning, in the context of what I said, means from the beginning of the Church. You claim it was your church from the beginning, but have no evidence beyond "the Bible alone", which is burring your head in the sand and denying truckloads of evidence it was Catholic "from the beginning"".

It is I who have given you the context. I have spoken in spirit, and you do not understand. Pray to God that he enlighten you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Often in confession, the priest will prompt this type of interaction between the confessor and victim.

ah, cool. this is what i was wondering. of course most of us are taught this in like kindergarten i guess right

 

[aspen]

ah, cool. this is what i was wondering. of course most of us are taught this in like kindergarten i guess right

Yes....teaching it.......doing it.........teaching it.....

Some people only apply sex education from their school days, I am afraid

 

[bbyrd009]

23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Do you see these verses as only applicable to the disciples?

ah, tbh v 23 is an intentional dichotomy from other vv, don't get me started lol, but to answer your Q no, i don't even think they are only applicable to "believers."

 

[bbyrd009]

You are your own leader

seek your own salvation

 

[bbyrd009]

Didn't anybody tell Paul he can't do that???

you are quoting Paul, thus making him an acknowledged "father of" in this case, as

15Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers

makes clear, while you seek to obscure, at least it seems to me. The title "father" is usurped by an appeal to some "authority" that is historically often purchased or even awarded. This pov doesn't strike you as a little hypocritical maybe?

 

[bbyrd009]

Does ScottA even have a pastor?

do you even have a mother? i mean what kind of Q is this?

 

[aspen]

The church is my mother and my mother is a.....nevermind

 

[bbyrd009]

through (hopefully) teaching and example.

i'm coming to see that one gets the system they deserve, and if "hopefully" is the best guarantee one can now get for a "father" then i am all the more encouraged to seek my own salvation

 

[epostle1]

You quoting me quoting Jesus and calling us both wrong, tells all. "The flesh profits nothing" John 6:63

I quoted Hebrews 13:17 to make a point about obedience to leaders, you quote John 6:63 as if it was relevant, then accuse me of calling Jesus wrong. Can you say cognitive disassociation?

This is only true of the world, but we are not of the world, nor are we to walk according to it.

This is a denial of the embarrassing predicament Protestantism finds itself, it's patched up with a new man made tradition called "The Invisible Church".

This is to your shame. Do you not know that by this you are judged as one who chose death over Life?

Only the world needs leaders but Christians don't??? Why? because you are your own leader? Now you are accusing me of choosing death. Brilliant.

]Whom did the Lord say to follow...and whom have you followed? I tell you, you follow the first Adam - not the Last!
It is I who have given you the context. I have spoken in spirit, and you do not understand. Pray to God that he enlighten you.

Your context is all over the map. Jesus founded a hierarchical, infallible, indestructable, indefectableone, one, holy universal and apostolic church. I have the spirit too, and that spirit tells me to avoid those who cause division Romans 16:17 , which is the
essence of Protestantism, which fails the test of Rom.16:17. Then you accuse me of not following your disparaged and irrelevant Scripture quotes and that I follow the first Adam. Is that an infallible dogmatic proclamation?

 

[bbyrd009]

The church is my mother and my is a.....nevermind

ya. must make it tuff to be a Catholic sometimes

 

[bbyrd009]

they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

a great idea imo, but it is already acknowledged i guess

those who can't, teach

 

[aspen]

I think condemning calling human beings father is pretty weak, personally. I get it that there are some difference between C&P doctrine, but come on

 

[bbyrd009]

I think condemning calling human beings father is pretty weak, personally. I get it that there are some difference between C&P doctrine, but come on

hmm, that is just such an avatar for the fundamental differences in beliefs i guess. Church made into an institution

 

[aspen]

hmm, that is just such an avatar for the fundamental differences in beliefs i guess. Church made into an institution

Well, where two or more are gathered, there is an institution.......Protestants thought they could stop insidious institutions by breaking away and gathering together....

"Hey! These GMOs and pesticides in our food are killing us!! I know the solution! Let's have a picnic!"

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, where two or more are gathered, there is an institution

that strikes me as a poor interp; always has. Might be me. But what church has ever only had two members? And don't they gather intentionally, iow not "are gathered?" Imo there are better ways to look at that passage than trying to make it mean "church" or "congregation," even if that is what people usually think.

And "in My Name" is taken to mean "talking about Jesus," when imo Christ likely has a different meaning in mind there too.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Hey! These GMOs and pesticides in our food are killing us!! I know the solution! Let's have a picnic!"

ha ya, i would say don't let those people define "where two or more are gathered in My Name" for you lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

i can't get this image out of my mind, of this ancient Bedouin guy i met in Dahab, who was a "father." Like, without trying to be, he just was. Don't guess i'd be able to relate the diff in demanding respect and commanding it here without writing a whole page tho lol

 

[ScottA]

I quoted Hebrews 13:17 to make a point about obedience to leaders, you quote John 6:63 as if it was relevant, then accuse me of calling Jesus wrong. Can you say cognitive disassociation?
This is a denial of the embarrassing predicament Protestantism finds itself, it's patched up with a new man made tradition called "The Invisible Church".
Only the world needs leaders but Christians don't??? Why? because you are your own leader? Now you are accusing me of choosing death. Brilliant.
Your context is all over the map. Jesus founded a hierarchical, infallible, indestructable, indefectableone, one, holy universal and apostolic church. I have the spirit too, and that spirit tells me to avoid those who cause division Romans 16:17 , which is the
essence of Protestantism, which fails the test of Rom.16:17. Then you accuse me of not following your disparaged and irrelevant Scripture quotes and that I follow the first Adam. Is that an infallible dogmatic proclamation?

Obviously, you are not tracking very well (or even in the spirit). But it all comes down to whom you follow, a man or the spirit of God: the man named after the Rock, or the Rock Himself (Matthew 16:13-20). This you have done according to the flesh.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

But it is not that I do not consider you a brother, but rather ironically, that the Holy Spirit of God, the same spirit whom revealed who Jesus was to Peter, has not yet lead you unto all truth.

All in God's perfect timing.

 

[Armadillo]

Song of Solomon 2:14

My dove in the clefts of the rock,
in the hiding places on the mountainside,
show me your face,
let me hear your voice;
for your voice is sweet,
and your face is lovely.

God, gentle as a dove and the clefts in the Rock are His wounds on His hands and feet and the cleft of the Rock gives safety and that Rock is Christ. In the Old Testament, Moses asked to see God so God placed him in the cleft of the rock and covered his eyes with His hand and he was only able to see God walk away. In the New Testament, Jesus turns and looks right at you and lets you see His face and hear His voice. We have everything we need in Jesus and we rest in Him.

ScottA wrote, All in God's perfect timing.

Yes indeed, timing is very important! God created the time and entered into it as Jesus Christ so that we could have a personal relationship with Him.