Thoughts on some verses?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Mmm it does mention something about that, sometimes I equate death meaning death from here but it does say realm of the dead. However that is not where people are going, considering the victory of Christ.
People will be resurrected and be going either into the kingdom of heaven or be outside of it…
So how this whole “realm of the dead place” in conjunction with the said chapter works anymore now today I don’t know… what I do know is what Jesus said in Luke 16.
There seems to be the ability to at least speak and remember…
So it is very odd if anything…
So I mainly equate when I die I personally can’t gain any more knowledge or wisdom or whatever because my body here is dead but my spirit (or soul) goes back to God which I read from chapters 9 - 12 just now:..
But perhaps you may have some insight to share? Or maybe just accept what is as is… ?
I don’t know may the spirit guide.
No special insight. The dead are dead, not alive.
When Jesus was killed he was dead, not alive.
When Jesus was resurrected he was made alive again, no longer dead.
I’m sure you’ve heard people say at Easter, “He lives!”
It doesn’t have meaning or importance if he was alive when he was dead.
Maybe some other may have some insights they would like to share.
One more thing you could say - there are those who are spiritually dead, and those made spiritually alive now today while on earth.
Thank you for sharing.
One more thing you could say - there are those who are spiritually dead, and those made spiritually alive now today while on earth.
Thank you for sharing.
Another interesting note is that
When Jesus died...
He went to Paradise, (He didn't go directly to heaven where God resided)
Then traveled over to the prison part of Sheol, and preached something there.
Anyway...
If anyone else has any insights may the spirit guide,
All of us have a common destiny of course that is ---- that we die, and go on from this world to Heavenly Realm.
When Jesus died...
He went to Paradise, (He didn't go directly to heaven where God resided)
Then traveled over to the prison part of Sheol, and preached something there.
Anyway...
If anyone else has any insights may the spirit guide,
All of us have a common destiny of course that is ---- that we die, and go on from this world to Heavenly Realm.
The ideas in this passage are patently false. They are the ideas of unsaved men who do not know the Gospel. Man "under the sun" (the natural man) may believe all this but we have the rest of the Bible -- and particularly the New Testament -- to correct all false notions.
So why did God put Ecclesiastes into the Scripture? So that we may learn to discern the truth and shun what is false. Yet the cults use these passages to concoct their own doctrines rather than trust the words of Christ and His apostles.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
And those spiritually dead in the afterlife - lake of fire , eternal consciousness torment .
hope this helps !!!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Yes the OP doesn’t take into consideration it’s mans vanity and thinking under the sun apart from God .
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
It is part of the inspired Scriptures in my opinion. God defined what death is here understandably.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Solomon's overall message in Ecclesiastes was that life under the sun is vanity of vanities and leads to chasing after the wind and ultimately futility WITHOUT GOD.
Whether you are rich or poor, without a relationship with God, you will end up in Hades, the place where the ungodly dead go. There, in darkness and in torment, their former lives evidently are forgotten, what they loved and what they hated. However, that may take some time. Days turn into years, decades and even centuries as you await your final judgment, it is no wonder that you forget.
Luke 16 describes the Rich man in Hades who just got there. He is consciously aware of his past life and present torment. How long does it take to forget everything? In Hades, when one is so focused on their own torment with nothing good to hold onto or within reach, you quickly realize that there is no hope, the darkness completely distinguishes anything that was good, or even who you are.
Interesting viewpoint with some things I would say are truthful in my opinion.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing Ronald.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
It seems to myself anyhow, that Ecclesiastics is all about how empty the things of the world are. Without God in our lives, all is in vain.
Satan is the ruler of this present world and rules over so much that most, even Christians do not see it. Entertainment, politics, economy, philosophy, religion...on and on. Even and especially the youth...just look at some of the things advertised for kids! Dolls half naked, the music, drugs sex and rock and roll... and more that I won't even mention. But sorry for getting off track Matthew.
As far as the "dead" are concerned, Abraham's bosom (some call it
Paradise...) is where all the OT saints were waiting to be freed on one side of the chasm and, the rich man on the other. I suspect the rich man (not saved) will stay just where he is until final judgement and the other to be with Jesus...JMHO bro.
Evidently it is written in Hebrew poetic form, which does not actually come through in the English. You will notice that "I" is prominent in this book, and so is "under the sun" (meaning in the earthly realm).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Yes, I would take Ecclesiastes 9:5 to be referring to only from the perspective of the Earth and not the spiritual realm.
There are other verses that talk about the after life or spiritual world.
How did Jesus talk with Moses and Elijah?
How did Jesus speak to the spirits in prison?
How was the thief in paradise with Jesus?
Revelation 6:9-11 gives an account of those who were slain for the Word of God and they cried out unto the Lord and spoke to Him.
There are other verses that talk about the after life or spiritual world.
How did Jesus talk with Moses and Elijah?
How did Jesus speak to the spirits in prison?
How was the thief in paradise with Jesus?
Revelation 6:9-11 gives an account of those who were slain for the Word of God and they cried out unto the Lord and spoke to Him.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Ecclesiastes 9:5.......verses 6 & 10 add something....
“5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. . . . . .10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.” (ESV)
Verse 5 is not ambiguous and completely in line with Jewish belief. They did not believe in an afterlife because they believed in resurrection, which is a restoration of life, not a continuation of it.
The dead are not in a conscious state, but are buried in Sheol, which the Jewish Tanakh translates as “the grave”.
There they believed that they would await God’s call to come out of those graves to enjoy newness of life under the rule of his future kingdom, which they believed would be on earth.
But Solomon goes further in verse 6...if the human soul survives death, why has their *love* perished along with these other negative emotions? And *forever* these ones will not share in anything that is done “under the sun”...or in this life, in this world. Again, in line with Jewish belief, there was no heaven or hell...just life and death. (Deuteronomy 30:19) But resurrection was not to this world....it was a restoration to life on a “new (cleansed) earth”, as Peter said, to be governed by a “new heavens”, Messiah’s Kingdom. (2 Peter 3:13)
Jesus taught us to pray for God’s kingdom to “come” so that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”....again, in line with Jewish belief, but with the coming of the Messiah, added clarity was given about its location.
That is not what the Bible says at all....we do not have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death.
A “soul” in the Bible is a living, breathing creature, either human or animal. When the body dies, the soul is no more. (Ezekiel 18:4) Without a body, there can be no soul.
Jesus spoke of the resurrection and demonstrated it by restoring his friend Lazarus to life. If you read John 11:11-14 where did Jesus say that Lazarus was?
Read John 5:28-29 and see that Jesus promised a resurrection by calling people from their graves.
He cannot call them from their graves, unless they are still in them....
Davy
Well-Known Member
If you believe when we die (in our flesh), that means there is nothing... left, then that goes against New Testament Scripture.
If you believe that our 'soul' dies with our flesh body, and/or is of material matter, then you go against New Testament Scripture.
If you believe that we are literally asleep in the ground when we die, and have no conscious awareness after flesh death, then you go against New Testament Scripture.
If you think this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension are both of material matter, then you go against New Testament Scripture.
All of the above ideas are things the unbelieving Jews are still trapped with today, their not understanding the Scriptures because of refusing Christ Jesus.
Similar threads
