Three Raptures

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
1,403
275
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This of course contradicts the faith that the natural Jews were the first to come into the body of Christ. The Gentiles began coming latter.

It also rejects the doctrine of neither Jew nor Greek being any 'better' in Christ than anyone else. It's contrary to the NT Bible that any birth by flesh makes anyone the best Christians.

Natural Jews do not make the best Christians, any more than natural Greeks or Scythians.

Now, if you are trying to say that it will be only Jews entering into Christ's body just before He returns, or at His return, then there is no hint of that in Revelation. There will be two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem, but nothing says they are God's only witnesses on earth. Nor does it say they only witness to Jews, as though Jerusalem at that time will be purged of all non-Jews.

Their dead bodies will be seen by nations, and so it's reasonable to believe their testimony will be also witnessed by nations.



All Christians in the first resurrection of the dead will be after the dead in Christ are raised.



True. No resurrected dead can be resurrected before they are resurrected from the dead.

That's simple logic.



I'm not sure what you are saying here. But if you mean the first resurrection of the church is at the time of the Lord's descent from heaven into the air, then that is true.

At that point all tribulation and wrath of man upon the righteous and just Christians will cease, because they will all be taken out of the way.

Then begins the tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the earth, until He descends from the air to slaughter all the armies gathered around Armaggeddon in Judea.


Yes. The Bible says that was the first miracle made by Jesus on earth.


What? There souls are interchangeable? They swap immortal bodies after the first resurrection?
WOW
You reframe.
Go to the next point
Reframe
Repeat.

SMH
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
One of the most precious of promises for the people of God is the eventual return of our Savior Jesus and being whisked away via the Rapture*. The term “Rapture”comes from the Latin Translation of the Bible, whereas the Greek translation is Harpazo’ meaning “Caught Up”. But such an event has remained a mystery for thousands of years beginning with insights coming from the Prophet Daniel. However as we come closer to the end of the age God is beginning to shine light on end time events like never before. This is especially true as we see the seven year Tribulation unfolding right before our very eyes.

Now the Word of God combined with our human curiosity has come up with three well known explanations regarding the churches rapture. These biblical theories amount to a Pre, a Mid and a Post rapture event. But let me say in advance that I am using the term “rapture” very loosely here only to point out that God will one day have to be supernatural in order to bring His children home.

Personally I believe that there is enough evidence to suggest that a “pre-tribulation rapture” never materialized. Current world events align so very well with Prophetic scripture that the “Pre” opportunity has come and gone. But surprisingly the Word still offers us three opportunities to be carried away. So let’s see what scripture has to say about each potential moment of departure.

  1. In real time we have begun to suffer the effects of the “Seal judgments” of Revelation. These judgments have introduced us to the four horsemen of the apocalypse who have imposed upon humanity the Jab, medical murder, famine and death and hades (The later is still a mystery as of this writing.) What will then follow are a series of natural disasters that start by blackening the skies, turning the moon to blood and leveling mountains (Possible pole shift event as described in Rev 6:12). So as we approach chapter seven of Revelation the church should be wide awake by now. This then introduces us to our first example of departure which gains merit from a number of key passages.
    • We first gain insight in regard to the Church of Philadelphia.
Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

It was assumed by many that this meant being raptured ahead of a seven year Tribulation. However as we have discovered it only refers to 3.5 years of that event. We see this in relation to what Daniel had to say about the work of the Antichrist and his control over the people of God.

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

The message continues by stating that the children of God are released after 3.5 years but then are given the kingdom.

Daniel 7:26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

The language is unique in that it parallels something Jesus once said after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

In this regard the Church finds a new commission under the Headship of Christ and gets lifted up in the process.

  • Another witness to the churches time of departure (mid-point) we should remember the words of the Apostle Paul that speaks of a Restrainer being taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 And you know what restrains him now, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains (will do so) until He is removed. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

  • Since the Bible makes mention of the saints being set free after 3.5 years; surprising that period of time coincides with another of Daniels prophecies which talks about 1290 days and 1335 days.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now I’m not setting dates here
, but rather I want to give the reader a calculation that gives a rough estimate as to how close we are to the return of our Lord. If we take into account that the Tribulation began around the beginning of March 2020 with the great Reset then the 1290 and 1335 days looks like this.

From Sunday, March 1, 2020
Added 1290 days Result: Tuesday, September 12, 2023

From
Sunday, March 1, 2020
Added 1335 days Result: Friday, October 27, 2023

As these passages come to life in our day they confirm an initial moment of exodus which comes about just after the first 3.5 years of the tribulation. Why do I believe this? Matthew 24:22 says “unless the time of the tribulation is shortened no human life could be saved”. Hence since 1290 and 1335 days are not cut short, we can conclude that our departure is soon. What is then revealed is a remarkable heavenly event where believers are found worshiping at the throne of the Most High.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 7:13-15
Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”14 I answered, “Sir, you know. ”And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

Please notice this one line of scripture;

“They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

This one line defines which Saints are chosen. The departing Saints having come out of the great tribulation have gained redemption through Christ alone. It was His blood, His sacrifice and His ability to pass through death, burial and resurrection that brought us into favor with God and into His divine rest. But now there is another group of Saints waiting to depart.

2. Chapter 12 of Revelation reveals there will be children of Israel who have also gain redemption in Jesus/Yeshua; however this is after the first rapture has past. No doubt, the radical disappearance of the saints will make nations rethink their way in faith and prompt the Jew to conclude that Jesus/Yeshua really was the Messiah. Those that then place their faith in Him will be saved and find a place of rest for the duration of the Tribulation period. Here’s what we learn about this place of departure.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

The occurrence that is being described is mirroring an astrological event that actually took place back in 2017. The stars aligned themselves in such away as to tell the story of the Virgin daughter of Israel gestating for nine mouths and then birthing the Redeemer. This celestial event goes on to tell the story of the dragon’s (The Devil’s) attempt to destroy the child. However after Jesus departs the earth, the dragon turns his attention to destroying the woman (Israel) and her offspring. However the woman flees into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God. More specifically this place of sanctuary is to protect the Jews that have found redemption in Christ. This no doubt parallels what Paul the Apostle was saying about the Children of Israel coming back to the vine through Christ (Romans 11:25-27). But why a different path for the Jew and the Christian in the first place; why the difference in covenants?
Continue at Three Raptures | Beyond Science | Before It's News
Why stop at just 3 raptures when 7 raptures are even better.............
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
paul calls it the gentile church in rom 11
I wish you would read rom 11 without the replacement theology
There is no such thing as a 'gentile church' in the Holy Scriptures.

The phrase 'gentile church' was made up by deluded dispensationalism.

There ONLY was and ONLY will be = One Body of Christ, One Flock/Church of God with One Shepherd
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why stop at just 3 raptures when 7 raptures are even better.............
Do you have a biblical basis for seven?
How is it that you think you have this all figured out?

I found this interesting. Chapter 7 rapture is based on the blood of the lamb alone. However from chapter 12 on it is based on keeping the commandments and faith in Jesus.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

· Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14
 
Last edited:

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you have a biblical basis for seven?
How is it that you think you have this all figured out?
God is the Author
i am just a student of the Holy Spirit = John 14:23-28

i read and believe the every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God is the Author
i am just a student of the Holy Spirit = John 14:23-28

i read and believe the every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4
I'm not here to convince you other wise. But when you make reference to the HS it is in context of not leaning on your own understanding. Much like the ten virgins there is the need to trust that the HS will lead us into all truth. It also encourages us to not solely trust in an intellectual grasp of the Word, but wait on God for answers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David in NJ

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not here to convince you other wise. But when you make reference to the HS it is in context of not leaning on your own understanding. Much like the ten virgins there is the need to trust that the HS will lead us into all truth. It also encourages us to not solely trust in an intellectual grasp of the Word, but wait on God for answers.
Absolutely

Now follow this wisdom which you posted and embrace the Truth which is = there will be only 1 rapture which occurs at His Coming

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Absolutely

Now follow this wisdom which you posted and embrace the Truth which is = there will be only 1 rapture which occurs at His Coming

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Who is the woman of Rev.12 and who are those hidden away for 3.5 years?
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who is the woman of Rev.12 and who are those hidden away for 3.5 years?
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
How is the "seed of the woman" determined in Revelation and according to the Gospel?

Answer: "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Answer: John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Answer: John 10:14-16
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Answer: Ephesians ch2
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How is the "seed of the woman" determined in Revelation and according to the Gospel?

Answer: "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Answer: John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Answer: John 10:14-16
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Answer: Ephesians ch2
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Who is the woman of Rev.12
 

Ghada

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2023
1,503
218
63
63
Damascus
Faith
Christian
Country
Syrian Arab Republic
Sounds like u got it all figured out.
I will as people correct me more, or I learn by the Spirit Himself.

You reframed every concept I brought forward.

SMH
Corrected your words with words of the Bible.

You just don't want to reframe them to conform to the Bible.

But, I will acknowledge you're not speaking of any 'Gentile' church anymore. Good job.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who is the woman of Rev.12
Revelation ch12 is speaking symbolically mixed in with some literal.

FOCUS on the literal Truth of the Holy Scriptures in Post #129

There are only two Groups of People in Revelation
a.) those who are saved = "the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
b.) those who reject Christ = "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation ch12 is speaking symbolically mixed in with some literal.

FOCUS on the literal Truth of the Holy Scriptures in Post #129

There are only two Groups of People in Revelation
a.) those who are saved = "the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
b.) those who reject Christ = "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Who is the woman of Rev.12 she can't be symbolic if her offspring are real
You also have the 144k that's three?
How do we explain who is being hidden in the desert for 3.5 years?
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who is the woman of Rev.12 she can't be symbolic if her offspring are real
You also have the 144k that's three?
How do we explain who is being hidden in the desert for 3.5 years?
144k is also symbolic

Your answers to the symbolic are found in the OT, Gospel, Acts and Apostles/NT letters.

Revelation is a revealing of PRIOR SPOKEN TRUTH in the Scriptures.
 

Gordon

Active Member
Jul 4, 2023
135
59
28
66
Longview
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who is the woman of Rev.12 she can't be symbolic if her offspring are real
You also have the 144k that's three?
How do we explain who is being hidden in the desert for 3.5 years?

144k is also symbolic

Your answers to the symbolic are found in the OT, Gospel, Acts and Apostles/NT letters.

Revelation is a revealing of PRIOR SPOKEN TRUTH in the Scriptures.
No it can't be symbolic since we see them in chapter 14 so there are three groups of believers in the trib.
· Revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

· Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Then we have the problem of deciding if all the players mentioned "The 144, the two witnesses, and the desert woman" each complete their time, times and half since God cuts the time short or no life will exist.
You can see the problems and the answer is still shrouded in mystery regarding how it all unfolds.
Nice talking to you - Night;
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No it can't be symbolic since we see them in chapter 14 so there are three groups of believers in the trib.
· Revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

· Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Then we have the problem of deciding if all the players mentioned "The 144, the two witnesses, and the desert woman" each complete their time, times and half since God cuts the time short or no life will exist.
You can see the problems and the answer is still shrouded in mystery regarding how it all unfolds.
Nice talking to you - Night;
Good Night and thank you for sharing