Such valuable interactions is why I hoped to streamline each participants "end times" statement of Faith in "Post your list". We each have a perception/belief/scripture that anchors us to adopt and share our perspective. I'm not willing to give up on my own at this time, because I think there is something missing from the churches view. Yes I love to take scripture at face value when ever possible and will argue with God at times on various points of doctrine. But what continues to stump me is Rev. Chapter 7 as if it delivers a significant shift in the program. We go from man made catastrophes, being imposed upon humanity into the long expected wrath of God. Then again this is why I struggle with the post trib because I cant believe that we are appointed unto wrath and should suffer with the nations that reject Jesus. So I will continue search for answers that may remain under the surface of what we see with our intellect rather by the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.
Three Raptures
- Thread starter Gordon
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Rev 14 is basically a mid trib event or closed to the end. so yes the elect are there for the first 3.5 years. we see the martyrs nuber also completed in the first 3.5.
If one leaves out the purpose for the trib,(jacobs/Israels trouble,as well as the removal of Lot,or Gods church) it leads to confusion. Some here do not even acknowledge the gentile bride and groom component, or that the Gospels are to the church.
So they will be the wildest shotgunners with bizare interpretations.
It is like the three blind men and the elephant. they are all right. The problem is in their starting point.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Perchance this may be helpful 'solving remaining answers' on your own journey:
( earthly ) prophecy / covenants / law for Israel ( Prominent ):
Christ came to "none but the lost sheep of the house of ( His Body? ) Israel
( twelve ) tribes ( nation )," with the 'gospel of the kingdom' commissioned to
twelve apostles, and then ( after the one-year fig tree parable Luk 13:7-9 ):
Israel fell... But ( this context of God is Now 'on hold' ) ...to be continued...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God's Current ( Heavenly ) Context (Romans - Philemon):
Mystery / Grace to Jews and Gentiles ( Now Equal ):
God Having Mercy On all ( as 'individuals' ), with His 'Gospel Of Grace'
Which:
( Spiritually ) Baptizes, By ONE Baptism, By The One Spirit, new-born babes
Into the One Body [ The "One New man" (Ephesians 2:15) ] Of Christ
( Wherein there is "No longer 'Jew nor Gentile' ), and:
which 'creation' began (Acts 9; 2Co 5:17) with Paul [ our 'pattern' (1Ti 1:16) ],
God's One Grace apostle.
This Context ''Ends" with God's Great GRACE Departure! Of Said 'Body' To Heaven!!
so that...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
...on earth, God continues: prophecy / covenants / law for His Twelve tribes of
Israel ( Again Prominent ):
Time Of Jacob's Trouble
please insert all of your 'prophetic end-time eschatology' information
( from Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation ) here, culminating with the Second
( prophesied ) Coming Of The LORD Jesus Christ, To Be "The KING Of Israel,"
and His Kingdom, on earth!
------------------"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a workman that needeth not
to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15)
= Plain and simply 'solved' for me on my journey, anyway...
Amen.
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As I said, you are trying to draw a conclusion out of the Bible, where there is no teaching for it. Nor is there anything in Matthew 25 suggesting it's not the church being spoken of.
It takes discipline to have solid teaching of the Bible to use for interpreting any prophecy of the Bible.
The church is the bride.
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Once again, there is no teaching in the Bible that suggests the church is not as the bride of Christ.
Just saying so convinces no one. If you have details, I'd be glad to look at it.
However, since we've already offered our own arguments, and we don't agree, then it will just continue as an exercise of endless dispute over any part of the Bible brought into the argument.
The OT is dead and decayed. The covenant wife of Christ is His church, where there is neither Jew nor Greek.
You're still teaching OT doctrine, and denying the doctrine of Christ His proper place now in all prophecy of the Bible.
The 144k cannot be the old tribes of Israel written by name in the stones of the high priest's breastplate.
We see all manner of complications with the Bible come up, when any teaching and prophecy in the Bible is replaced with our own.
Now the Bible is made to contradict itself and put in a different name on an old breastplate.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ok look, you are trying so hard to give me a one dimensional outlook through doctrine.
You leave out dynamics, (like your misunderstanding of the remnant believers verses carnal believers) ,or the 2 groups of Christians both Jesus and Paul DECLARE VIVIDLY.
The bride IS NOT the entire church. The bride is part of the church.
Crowns ARE NOT rewarded to all beliers.
Not all believers sit on thrones.
Not all believers are rewarded
Privileges and, rewards are based on WORKS.
Salvation is based on faith, covenant, redemption, the blood, the cross/ resurrection and restoration into the family of God. (No works)
I am guessing you are confused in those dynamics.
Read the following verses TO CHRISTIANS, that reveal to 2 CLASSES of believers ( they are still believers, but are not worthy of privilege's or rewards)
Rev 2
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, IALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
VIVID AND CLEAR BEYOND DEBATE THE 2 CLASSES AND WORKS BASED REWARDS.
But I do understand your heavy investment in mans doctrine that you are listening to.
You leave out such basic understanding. IOW your starting place is flawed because you do not know your bible.
Who taught you to reframe or ignore romans 11????
The 144k ETHNIC JEWS alone refutes your claim. ( the ones you say are impossible, that are some mistake of Jesus thinking they exist????)
As far as me centering in on the OT (Gods word that you claim is dead), I can tell you right now if you do not incorporate the book of Ruth, you will NEVER understand rev ch 5.
If you do not understand to rewards of God ,which is worthy vs unworthy, you will misinterpret mat 25 every time.
What i see all the time is people with a part of scripture, trying to connect the dots.
You make a big mistake in omission, then jumping to conclusions. That is such a trap.
But here is more off the top of my head that may help to dispel your omission based opinions of Gods word.;
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Paul clarifying what you say is not valid;
reward vs no reward....carnal vs spiritual From Jesus and Paul;
1 cor
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
2 cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1 Corinthians 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
There has already been another resurrection by Jesus of those in captivity,or paradise. They were seen walking in Jerusalem. and are now in heaven in glorified bodies.
The resurrection of 1 thes 4 is only believers.
The resurrection after the mil is all the dead.
that is what the bible says.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
What Ghada said on this is correct. There are only 2 general resurrections of the Church given in Scriptures, and they are explicitly described in Rev 20. Other *cases* of resurrection are not examples of a "general resurrection."
Trying to read general resurrections into symbolic Scriptures or apocalyptic literature is not an example of biblical doctrine or theology. A few people brought back to life, like Lazarus, at the time of Jesus' death also is not a general resurrection. Some people love to use obscure Bible verses to create a bizarre slant on things.
I'm not specifically saying who may be doing this in this thread. I'm late getting to this thread, but it sounds like another attempt at creating a novel view of biblical prophecy?
Help Me Please; Could both of you Ghada and rebuilder, and anyone else that has a theory, please explain In ONE SENTENCE (Talk to me like I am a child) why the placement of Chapter 7 and the throne event preceding the rest of the book?
"These are the people who come out of the great tribulation , and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
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Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
After the Rapture of the elect ( chosen by God)(washed by the Blood of Jesus), the tribulation takes place. Those that accept Jesus during the Tribulation are washed by the Blood of the Lamb and join with the rest of the elect.
Thanks for that:
Ghada and rebuilder? What about you randy Kluth? any help here?
If not contradicting doctrine of Christ to interpret His prophecy constrains us, then we ought be constrained.
Romans 11 is about how the natural Jews can still be saved, just as natural Greeks. It's not about natural Jews still being the seed of promise. Some Christians still think natural Jews cannot be saved, because they refused Christ and had Him crucified.
Paul rebuking them by stating the obvious, that he is one of the remnant of natural Jews that are saved and justified by Jesus after His resurrection.
I refrain from and ignore a tradition about it, that refrains and ignores doctrine of Christ, and says natural Jews are still a seed of promise of God.
I've given the doctrinally correct reading of Romans 11 above.
No I don't. There's the wheat and the tares.
True. Wheat and tares.
So, you clarify that the bride is not the whole church. I see where your dynamics of more than one dimension fails.
The wheat is the church. The tares are among the church like the fowls roosting in the branches. The wheat are the living branches, and the tares are the dead branches either already cut off from the true Vine, or will be if they don't repent.
That's because they are unsaved tares. No one doing unrighteousness shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6)(Gal 5)
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Teaching the Bible is simple. It's just repeating the words without contradicting them. Faith without works is dead, and those doing works of the flesh are not justified.
Dittoes. None of the unrighteous doing such things shall inherit the kingdom of God in the resurrection of the dead, whether a believer or not.
Exactly. The unrighteous Christians you speak of are usually also the ones preaching another gospel called saved and justified by faith alone without works.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
No one is rewarded with salvation for past works, but only those doing good unto the end by the faith of Jesus will be rewarded with inheriting the everlasting kingdom of Christ by resurrection of the dead unto life.
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
No, I'm not confused by the teaching of nonbiblical faith without works. The Bible calls it dead, being alone.
I'm just flummoxed how any Christian could even try to teach it, and openly show that they don't believe the Bible. Or at least not all of the Bible words anyway.
Your dynamic of including the unrighteous tares and hearers only in the body, temple, and righteous church of Christ, is false.
God's temple is always holy, and the members of His sons body are only those being holy as He is holy.
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
The exhortation is not for members of the body of Christ to become holy in their manners, but for the hearers to become members of the body by becoming holy as He is holy.
Your inclusion of unholy and ungodly doers of unrighteousness into the holy temple and righteous body of Christ, is akin to modern liberal inclusiveness.
When Paul speaks of the double hearted unrepented being as babes, he is not saying they are babes in Christ. That is the imperfect and unrighteous gospel of being saved by dead faith alone and hearing only.
It's not possible for babes in Christ to be ungodly and unholy in their manners, because in Christ we are born again completely new with all old things passed instantly away, and all things of the spirit, soul, and body are now instantly become new and of God. (2 Cor 5)
To say such babes are also still behaving themselves in some manner sinfully as before, is to oppose the newborn babes gospel of Jesus Christ. It teaches the still born sinning babes of another gospel. That unrighteous conversion is without power of God to instantly become righteous sons of God, and now be holy in all manner of conversion as He is holy.
A gradual conversion doctrine of Christian religion is not the instantaneous conversion of Jesus Christ. No man becomes instantly purified and holy within, while also remaining ungodly and sinful in any manner without.
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
James is saying such things ought not be so by people hearing the gospel and naming the name of Christ. He is not saying that it is so with some in the body and holy temple of Christ. Such hypocritical and double hearted things ought not so to be with anyone on earth, and especially not with them naming Christ. But the only ones not doing so are holy members of Jesus' own flesh and bones on earth.
We all know the hearers in churches. Only Christ knows them that are his in His church.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The Bible is very plain that professing faith and being a believer by hearing only, does not at all mean we are saved by faith and justified by works.
Sure, they're believers, just like the devils that quake and tremble.
True. There are always two classes in every church pew: justified by works, and unjustified with faith alone.
Faith alone without works is only knowledge by hearing. Knowledge-only faith is what James says cannot save a man. Only the faith of Jesus from the heart believing unto His righteousness can save and justify the soul by doing it.
My heavy investment is in showing how some teachings and interpretations are not from the Bible. While doing so accurately, the Bible doctrine and prophecy is revealed.
Teaching the Bible is much easier than most people think. It's really just repeating the words of the Bible with common sense. I guess we could call it a simple one dimensional dynamic.
So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
As I said, I perfectly understand what you are prophesying and teaching. And I go into detail to show how they are not from the Bible.
We all know the reason for preaching faith without works in opposition to the Bible. It's to justify the believers doing of unrighteousness by faith alone.
We both know the Bible. I teach it's words only. You teach some things in opposition to some of it's words.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Only doers of the word are justified with Christ. Hearers only, only believe the knowledge that the Lord is God, but so do devils. They even confessed it to Jesus. They just weren't also doing His will.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The 144k ETHNIC JEWS don't refute anything but being hearers of the word only. They are the sum of all Christians ever sealed with the Holy Spirit and circumcision of Christ on earth. The churches of Christ Jesus are now the 12 tribes of Israel of God.
Neither is he a Jew that is only outwardly, but they are now Jews that are circumcised of Christ inwardly. (Romans 2)
The beheading and virginity of all saints is the work and circumcision of the Spirit of Christ, where the old man is crucified with Christ, and the new man remains faithful to the man Christ Jesus.
The pure of heart and chaste life of virtue, godliness, and charity are the virgins that follow the Lamb wherever He goes and walk in His steps.
It's impossible for them to be the natural tribes of old, since that would contradict Scripture. It would be God's word getting one of the names on Aaron's breastplate wrong.
Once again, all Bible teaching and interpreting of prophecy is in error, when any part of the Bible is contradicted. It shows itself to be a faith, doctrine, and prophecy of another book, not of the Bible.
Jesus doesn't 'think' anything as men think in error at times. Jesus knows all things and reveals the certainty of them.
The mistake is what some think about some prophecy of the Bible. They make the mistake by not taking all the Bible into account.
Now you're just making silly accusations. Taking the low road, instead of remaining honest and above board in arguments.
The reward of God is to the doers of His word, and never for the hearers only. Nothing hard to understand about that.
True. It's called trying to teach the Bible without taking all the Bible into account.
Just saying so doesn't do any good. We must address details to properly correct someone with the Bible.
There is no dispute between us about there being carnal vs spiritual believers. The dispute is about justifying the unrighteous carnal alongside the holy spiritual by faith alone.
True. Remaining in double heartedness appearing as babes, must be repented of with singleness of heart, in order to become babes of Christ in deed and in truth.
In Hebrews 6, only the holy babes go on to perfection by repenting once for all of dead works. The hearers only that repent not, go on to more rejected thorns and briars and burned as dead branches, that are not living in the True Vine.
Exactly. Carnal believers are as carnal unbelievers, walking as all unsaved men. They are not spiritual as righteous believers, that walk as the man Jesus walked.
This applies to ministry, not to lifestyle. 1 Cor 3 context is errors in ministry, not sinful works of the flesh.
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
This is the context of ministry.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
This is establishing that ministry has an effect on the church, whether for the better or the worse.
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
This is warning against doing harm to the body of Christ with bad teaching. The way to avoid it is by careful faithfulness to the foundational words of the Bible written by the apostles of Jesus.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This is teaching that our works of ministry added to the foundation of the apostles, are tested and either rewarded or shunned by Jesus at His judgement seat. It's has nothing to do with ungodly living and unrighteous works of the flesh. The reward for doing such things is still resurrection unto shame and not inheriting the kingdom of God. (Dan 12)(1 Cor 6)(Gal 5)
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Still in the context of ministry, this is the severest warning about teaching contrary to the Bible. If our teaching is so bad, that it corrupts the hearts of the believers unto more ungodliness, then the ministers along with unjust doers will all be destroyed together for doing such things.
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
One such bad teaching too common in Christian religion, is salvation and justification by faith alone without doing righteousness of God.
Many of their own adherents proudly claim to be just as much sinners as the rest of the world. They think that makes them humble. Humbling ourselves in the sight of God is by repenting of sinning, not boasting about it. (James 4)
New Covenant wife the Christians. The God of Israel has come into the world and is now risen from the dead. That's NT gospel, so that there is neither Jew nor Greek in sight of God.
These are the souls at the altar in heaven awaiting the resurrection of their dead bodies on earth. All the righteous souls that now die in Christ also join them in the presence of the Lord.
Paul specifically says they become absent from the body at that time. (2 Cor 5) The Bible always proves certain things in plain words. We either believe them when we read them or we don't.
Most false teaching about the Bible is just ignorance of what the Bible says, or sloppy reading. Some of it is open unbelief in order to teach something else. And some is for the express purpose of justifying believers living sinfully. The last is the real danger to the church, that can lead hearers astray from Jesus unto another cursed gospel.
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
The first such lie was "Thou shalt not surely die" when disobeying God's commandment. It's the exact opposite of "Thou shalt surely die." All men still surely die spiritually on earth and eternally after the resurrection, by sinning against God. And God is not a respecter of persons.
Once again, a disciplined reading of the Bible shows these were 'many' of the saints, not all. All that were in Abraham's bosom were led captive to heaven. And that was after preaching to them in hell for three days. The raising of the bodies of many saints, was at His death with a great earthquake.
The dead saints were raised back to life to live on with their old mortal bodies, the same as others in the Bible. There are many such raisings back to natural life in the Bible, beginning with the son of Zarephath, the son of the Shunammite, the man touching the bones of the profit, the daughter of Jairus, the youth in Nain, Lazarus, Tabitha, Eutychas, etc... they all lived on to the end of their natural lives.
They were not eternal resurrections of the dead unto judgement with everlasting life or shame in immortal bodies. If they were, then there would be 9 more 'resurrections' to add to the list.
The resurrection from the dead is a distinctly defined event in the Bible, that is eternal with immortal bodies unto judgement. Being raised back to life with the old mortal body is not a Biblical resurrection of the dead. Any 'resurrection' defined otherwise is not that of the Bible. Some teach being born again and spiritually raised from the death of sins and trespasses. That is not a Biblically defined bodily resurrection from the dead.
The only glorified body of man in heaven is the man Christ Jesus. The souls at the altar in heaven await the resurrection of their bodies from the grave. They will receive them first on earth, and then with them alive and being changed earth, they altogether rise to meet the Lord in the air.
Once again, if we believe the plain words of the Bible, then we know all the saints in the first resurrection of the church, rise together from the earth to meet the Lord in the air.
The first resurrection of the church is at the Lord's return into the air. Then the rest of the dead rise after His thousand year rule on earth with them, which is prophesied in Dan 2.
There are three resurrections from the dead in the Bible: Jesus Christ, the first resurrection of the church, and the rest of the dead about a thousand years later.
There won't be any resurrections from the dead in the new heaven and earth, because there will be no more death of men that live there.
True. All the rest of the dead.
True, other than the raising of Lazuras, etc...
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Rom 11 (which you were shown, but shoved it aside to call the bible "my opinion")
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
What reframing of that shall we see?
You claim almost a divinity of private interpretation as if you yourself are flawless, and yet you go against the bible.
Lets see your special revelatory "gift" unpack the first miracle of Jesus.
It was AT A JEWISH WEDDING
They ran out of wine
Jesus was prompted to do something.
Water was already there as the catalyst for what Jesus did.
There were 6 earthen vessels
6 is significant
Earthen vessels is significant
Wine is significant
the "best saved for last" is significant.
In order to CORRECTLY unpack it, you would have to temporarily jettison your replacement theology.
Rev 14 CANNOT be understood without Jesus first miracle properly unpacked.
OH, BTW, Israel is the wayward wife
The gentile church is the bride. The last supper is the betrothal.
The marriage is in heaven
REv 19,the bride becomes the wife AFTER THE CONSUMATION IN HEAVEN ..also in rev 19
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