Timing of the abomination of desolation

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shilohsfoal

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The Judean Christians unquestionably understood the signs of their times.

Their actions confirmed their understanding.

Had they disregarded Jesus' warnings, they would have perished.

Thankfully, none of them was a dispensational futurist.

There is Second Coming scripture farther down in the chapter.

But not in Matthew 24:15-16.

Well, the occupants of Judea will flee when the Lord comes just as Jesus said they will. It's not because they listened to Jesus though. It's because they didn't listen to him.
Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The only problem here is that Daniel Chapter 11 is a prophecy of the Grecian wars after Alexander died that happened. Teh four rulers (Lysimachus, Antigonus, Ptolemy, and Cassander. The abominable one in Daniel 11 is Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who is a prototype of the Antichrist to come.

And when Jesus warned in Matt. 24 that is future. And it is not a device but a person. Paul also describes it in Thess. Teh man of sin who enters teh temple and declares himself god.
Correct, except for the last sentence, which most everyone confuses, its actually the False Prophet that takes away the sacrifice and places the Image of the Beast at the 1290, the AC does not conquer Jerusalem until 30 days later at the 1260.

It can only be from the Four Generals Kingdoms, that was the whole point to the inter-nation battles. Antiochus sacrificed a pig unto Zeus, but he was welcomed into the temple by the Jewish High Priest (Jason...real name Yeshua) who mandated the Jews should be Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. Therefore, the end time False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest and the Anti-Christ must be a Greek born, European, of Assyrian (Turkish blood) descent.

So a Turk's family migrates to Greece in the last 100-200 years, they have a son after Europe is reunited, this he's arises among the 10 (complete Europe united) by being born in Greece and is a person therefore who can become the E.U. President.

All three have to be able to be true because God can not lie. He's of Assyrian descent, he's born in Greece as Dan. 8:9 says and he will arise out of the Fourth Beast (E.U.).

We have to combine both Dan. 8:9 and Dan. 7:7-8. Both are the same Little Horn.
 
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covenantee

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Well, the occupants of Judea will flee when the Lord comes just as Jesus said they will. It's not because they listened to Jesus though. It's because they didn't listen to him.
Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

None of the Judean Christians was a dispensational futurist.
 

shilohsfoal

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Correct, except for the last sentence, which most everyone confuses, its actually the False Prophet that takes away the sacrifice and places the Image of the Beast at the 1290, the AC does conquer Jerusalem unto 30 days later at the 1260.

It can only be from the Four Generals Kingdoms, that was the whole point to the inter-nation battles. Antiochus sacrificed a pig unto Zeus, but he was welcomed into the temple by the Jewish High Priest (Jason...real name Yeshua) who mandated the Jews should be Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. Therefore, the end time False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest and the Anti-Christ must be a Greek born, European, of Assyrian (Turkish blood) descent.

So a Turk's family migrates to Greece in the last 100-200 years, they have a son after Europe is reunited, this he's arises among the 10 (complete Europe united) by being born in Greece and is a person therefore who can become the E.U. President.

All three have to be able to be true because God can not lie. He's of Assyrian descent, he's born in Greece as Dan. 8:9 says and he will arise out of the Fourth Beast (E.U.).

We have to combine both Dan. 8:9 and Dan. 7:7-8. Both are the same Little Horn.
After Israel is given a host,(an army) do you believe you might understand what it means or how that relates to the little horn?
 

Ronald D Milam

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After Israel is given a host,(an army) do you believe you might understand what it means or how that relates to the little horn?
What verse brother Shioh? I have done ever verse in Daniel 11 in an Exegesis so I imagine I might be able to clarify that.
 
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shilohsfoal

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What verse brother Shioh?

Daniel 8:12 KJV: And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

It's the host given to the little horn that enables the daily sacrifice to be abolished.
No one attacks Israel when the daily sacrifice is abolished. This army is not an invasion. The host is a gift of sorts to Israel. And the king of the north flatters many Israelis.

Daniel 11:32 With flattery he will corrupt those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.
 

covenantee

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I wasn't there. I know many Christians were being killed during that time by the Romans. History shows many were killed for sport.

Sure. But the Christians escaped when Cestius Gallus inexplicably withdrew the Roman armies for a brief interval, and none perished in the invasion and destruction under Titus that followed.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Daniel 8:12 KJV: And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

It's the host given to the little horn that enables the daily sacrifice to be abolished.
No one attacks Israel when the daily sacrifice is abolished. This army is not an invasion. The host is a gift of sorts to Israel. And the king of the north flatters many Israelis.

Daniel 11:32 With flattery he will corrupt those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

These two verses are about two different people 1.) Antiochus the TYPE Anti-Christ in Dan. 11:32 and then about 2.) The Anti-Christ in Dan. 8:9-12, I can explain 8:9-12 a little clearer, God just gave me the understanding of the host in a fuller detail. But first I will give you my full Exegesis on Dan. 11:21-33-34 about Antiochus, and verse 35, what I call the 2200 year TRANSITION PERIOD. I did this a few years ago. Then I will tell you why Dan. 8:9-12 can only be the Anti-Christ. By the way Dan. 11:36-45 is also the Anti-Christ. The whole reason we are given every king is to show us his TYPE in Antiochus where we will know what to look for in these end times. At the time I did this Exegesis, I dd not even understand in full that I had discovered the False Prophet TYPE in Jason. (his brother was Onias III, a Pious High Priest and I was more focused on him).

Dan. 11 Exegesis

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III’s son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

Antiochus Epiphanes IV Comes to Power: BELOW

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the heir to the throne. (See verse 20)

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. (Onias III is killed)

The High Priest (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price. Both Jason and the other high priest were in favor of Hellenization of the Jewish people.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a “small army” down to Egypt feigning to be their protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course laying a trap to eventually deceive them so he could eventually conquer them. This was seemingly his master-plan.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers’ fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt’s trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his past wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.

This is the Sixth Syrian War. (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians were loyal to him and actually betrayed Ptolemy VI. Antiochus was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer.

27 And both of these kings’ hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter(VERY IMPORTANT I know now). 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him very angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them (60,000 Jews loyal to God) but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms.

{{{ Let me add in this at this time, years later, the verse I cited as VERY IMPORTANT, show Antiochus will not be allowed to Conquer at this time (upon his return to Egypt) as he did the FORMER time, and as the Anti-Christ will be allowed to do at the latter time !! Thus he has ANGER against the holy covenant and God's people, AND he will have "INTELLIGENCE" amongst those who are Hellenized, in other words he used Jewish traitors to tell on those who were faithful unto God and thus killed 60,000 Jewish people. So, the people who forsook God, RATTED on the Faithful servants of God !! The more things change, the more they stay the same. }}}

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there. This is what Hanukkah is about, its a rededication of the temple unto God after it was defiled by Antiochus and Jason the High Priest who was in league with Antiochus.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits(Maccabees led the way). 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.(60,000 died) 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. So, at that time many Jews forsook their God and then again many refused to do so and paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways. The Maccabean Revolt of course won the day in the end.

CONTINUED............
 
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Ronald D Milam

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CONTINUED..............

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A Transition period verse that covers 2200 years in my opinion.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. (End times/NOW)

Verse 35 is a transitional period all unto itself, which covers the Church Age also, where many are purged by the blood and thus become white, all the way until the end times seen in verses 36-45. So, below I divide the two sections, Antiochus and the End Times Anti-Christ, but this one verse coves 2200 some odd years by itself. It stretches from Antiochus, all the way to the end times.
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I think verses 21-34 is referring to Antiochus and then eventually the Maccabean Revolt. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-34) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering, in truth, none of it had come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology. Meanwhile verse 35 is the transitional verse that covers everything in between, the Church Age. Amen.

We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel 8:9. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verses 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will be continued persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall or be tried and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age….to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Daniel 8 in brief, off the cuff, no Exegesis on that LOL. Takes a lot of work, I have every verse in Dan. 11 and 12 but I am just pointing unto Antiochus above. Below is the Anti-Christ, off the cuff.

Dan. 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east(End Time Anti-Christ), and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great (equals "Conquered" see ABOVE), even to the host of heaven(Simply means he conquers Jerusalem, the HOST of Heaven, where the Temple of God resides); and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,(this is the Anti-Christ killing some of the Jewish Saints/HOSTS and the meaning of Stars, as I looked a long time ago, in some commentaries, this represent LEADERS amongst the Jews) and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host(See Dan. 11:22 above, I called this a moniker for the High Priest), and by him(High Priest....SHIVERS when I just realized this) the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. (Wow, God just filled it all in for me by that question you asked, WOW.....The A.C. and the High Priest form a union, he puts political pressure on this High Priest after the Jews REPENT and start worshiping Jesus (Zechariah 13:8-9) just before the DOTL, in the temple of God. Thus he MAGINIFIES himself to the Host as if to say, DO MY WILL OR ELSE, by this time Israel will be a part of the E.U. that is the Covenant (Agreement) they sign! So, he gets the rogue Jewish High Priest to do his dirty work 30 days before he is allowed to conquer Jerusalem, the High Priest/False Prophet will forbid the Jews from Jesus Worship (takes away THE SACRIFICE) and defiles the temple by placing an Image of the Anti-Christ (E.U. President) in the temple.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression(a High Priest joins with him and they both speak blasphemy against the most high God), and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Gabriel in his interpretation of the dream says this is the END TIMES.

God has blessed me with stuff that is incomprehensible.
 
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shilohsfoal

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CONTINUED..............

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Transition period verse that covers 2200 years in my opinion.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Verse 35 is a transitional period all unto itself, which covers the Church Age also, where many are purged by the blood and thus become white, all the way until the end times seen in verses 36-45. So, below I divide the two sections, Antiochus and the End Times Anti-Christ. but this one verse coves 2200 years by itself. It stretches from Antiochus, all the way to the end times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think verses 21-34 is referring to Antiochus and then eventually the Maccabean Revolt. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-34) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology. Meanwhile verse 35 is te transitional verse that covers everything in between, the Church Age. Amen.

We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel 8:9. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall or be tried and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age….to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Daniel 8 in brief, off the cuff, no Exegesis on that LOL. Takes a lot of work, I have every verse in Dan. 11 and 12.

Dan. 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east(End Time Anti-Christ), and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great (=Conquered see ABOVE), even to the host of heaven(Simply means he conquers Jerusalem, the HOST of Heaven, where the Temple of God resides); and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,(this is the Anti-Christ killing some of the Jewish Saints/HOSTS and the Stars as I looked a long time ago, in some commentaries, this represent LEADERS amongst the Jews) and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host(See Dan. 11:22 above, I called him the High Priest), and by him(High Priest....SHIVERS) the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. (Wow, God just filled it all in for me by that question you asked, WOW.....The A.C. and the High Priest form a union, he puts political pressure on this High Priest after the Jews REPENT and start worshiping Jesus (Zechariah 13:8-9) just before the DOTL, in the temple of God. Thus he MAGINIFIES himself to the Host as if to say, DO MY WILL OR ELSE, by this time Israel will be a part of the E.U. that is the Covenant (Agreement) they sign! So, he gets the rogue Jewish High Priest to do his dirty work 30 days before he is allowed to conquer Jerusalem, the High Priest/False Prophet will forbid the Jews from Jesus Worship (takes away THE SACRIFICE) and defiles the temple by placing an Image of the Anti-Christ (E.U. President) in the temple.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression(a High Priest joins with him and they both speak blasphemy against the most high God), and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Gabriel in his interpretation of the dream says this is the END TIMES.

God has blessed me with stuff that is incomprehensible.

Then I'm sure you know the little horn is already in Israel and the host will soon be given to him.
 

shilohsfoal

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Sure. But the Christians escaped when Cestius Gallus inexplicably withdrew the Roman armies for a brief interval, and none perished in the invasion and destruction under Titus that followed.

Daniel, nor Jesus ever said there would be a withdraw of the abomination that causes desolation. When the king of the north sets forth to destroy all the middle east, he doesn't withdraw.He will not withhold the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

There is no withdraw here.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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In Daniel 11, it was an image of Antiochus, in the tribulation, it will be when teh AC enters teh Holy of Holies, sits on the mercy seat and declare himself God. Grammar identifies who or what is in each case.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Correct, except for the last sentence, which most everyone confuses, its actually the False Prophet that takes away the sacrifice and places the Image of the Beast at the 1290, the AC does not conquer Jerusalem until 30 days later at the 1260.

It can only be from the Four Generals Kingdoms, that was the whole point to the inter-nation battles. Antiochus sacrificed a pig unto Zeus, but he was welcomed into the temple by the Jewish High Priest (Jason...real name Yeshua) who mandated the Jews should be Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. Therefore, the end time False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest and the Anti-Christ must be a Greek born, European, of Assyrian (Turkish blood) descent.

So a Turk's family migrates to Greece in the last 100-200 years, they have a son after Europe is reunited, this he's arises among the 10 (complete Europe united) by being born in Greece and is a person therefore who can become the E.U. President.

All three have to be able to be true because God can not lie. He's of Assyrian descent, he's born in Greece as Dan. 8:9 says and he will arise out of the Fourth Beast (E.U.).

We have to combine both Dan. 8:9 and Dan. 7:7-8. Both are the same Little Horn.


Well we have to combine Dan. 2 and 7. but Danile 8 speaks of First the medeo-persian empire (ram with two horns- one a little higher).

The he goat with the great horn is alexander teh great who conquered teh medeo/persin empire. when Alexander died, tthe grecian kingdom was divided among four of his generals, Cassander, Lysimachus, Antigonus, and Ptolemy.

All the rest of picking ancestry is simply you guessing.

Teh antichrist will be Satans physical son (Gen. 3) and born of a women from the roman empire (Daniel 9) Wjhether that means Italian, or the empire at teh time of Daniel, or Jesus, or the end times, I don't know for Scripture doesn't say.
 

covenantee

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Daniel, nor Jesus ever said there would be a withdraw of the abomination that causes desolation. When the king of the north sets forth to destroy all the middle east, he doesn't withdraw.He will not withhold the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

There is no withdraw here.

He knew there would be a withdrawal, which is why He issued the warning to flee.

The Judean Christians recognized and seized the opportunity, and survived, exactly as Jesus intended.
 
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shilohsfoal

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In Daniel 11, it was an image of Antiochus, in the tribulation, it will be when teh AC enters teh Holy of Holies, sits on the mercy seat and declare himself God. Grammar identifies who or what is in each case.

So you believe Daniel got his own prophecy wrong when he said it's the armed forces who place the abomination of desolation?