Timing of the abomination of desolation

[shilohsfoal]

He knew there would be a withdrawal, which is why He issued the warning to flee.

The Judean Christians recognized and seized the opportunity, and survived, exactly as Jesus intended.

Zech 14 says they will flee also corresponding to Jesus. So why do you believe the king of the north would withdraw when he is trying to kill as many people as he can in the middle east? And do you also believe Egypt was overthrown at that time and do you believe the resurection of Israel took place at that time as Daniel prophecied?

Daniel 11:42 He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape.
Daniel 11:43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushites will also submit to him.
Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.
Daniel 11:45 He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him.
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

I just have a hard time believing the first resurection took place in 70 AD.

 

[covenantee]

Zech 14 says they will flee also corresponding to Jesus. So why do you believe the king of the north would withdraw when he is trying to kill as many people as he can in the middle east? And do you also believe Egypt was overthrown at that time and do you believe the resurection of Israel took place at that time as Daniel prophecied?

Daniel 11:42 He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape.
Daniel 11:43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushites will also submit to him.
Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.
Daniel 11:45 He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him.
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

I just have a hard time believing the first resurection took place in 70 AD.

The Judean Christians' flight had nothing to do with Zechariah or Daniel or a first resurrection.

It had to do with their recognition of, and acting upon, Jesus' warning.

Which they did, and survived, exactly as Jesus intended.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The Judean Christians' flight had nothing to do with Zechariah or Daniel or a first resurrection.

It had to do with their recognition of, and acting upon, Jesus' warning.

Which they did, and survived, exactly as Jesus intended.

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other here.
Was not Jesus talking about the abomination of desolation here when he said those in Judea would flee to the mountains?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Then I'm sure you know the little horn is already in Israel and the host will soon be given to him.

It doesn't work like that brother. He's a Gentile King/President of the E.U. (Fourth Beasts 10 Horns) and they freely give their power unto him, so the 10 (ALL the E.U. vote him in, he doesn't conquest his way to power) stands for the E.U. Nations completely reuniting. But he can only REDO an agreement that is already at hand. That is the European Neighborhood Policy Agreements.

He Conquers Jerusalem, Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region at the 1260, so he's not there yet, and will not be until the 1260, he will get this HOST (Jewish High Priest) to do his will at the 1290 event which happens 30 days before the 1260.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Well we have to combine Dan. 2 and 7. but Danile 8 speaks of First the medeo-persian empire (ram with two horns- one a little higher).

The he goat with the great horn is alexander teh great who conquered teh medeo/persin empire. when Alexander died, tthe grecian kingdom was divided among four of his generals, Cassander, Lysimachus, Antigonus, and Ptolemy.

All the rest of picking ancestry is simply you guessing.

Teh antichrist will be Satans physical son (Gen. 3) and born of a women from the roman empire (Daniel 9) Wjhether that means Italian, or the empire at teh time of Daniel, or Jesus, or the end times, I don't know for Scripture doesn't say.

Dan. 8:9 shifts from Alexander the Great to the Anti-Christ, just like Daniel 11:21-34 SKIPS from Antiochus to the Anti-Christ in verse 36.

I don't GUESS, I have the Holy Spirit and this is my calling, I leave the guessing to others.

Satan does not physically have a son. Judas was also a son of perdition.

 

[Davy]

Revelation teaches us that the Gentiles shall occupy Jerusalem for 42 months at the time of the end. Daniel teaches us that the armed for es of the north will accomplish two things. To abolish the daily sacrifice and to place the abomination of desolation.

According to Daniel the abomination that causes desolation would be placed in Jerusalem 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished.
That means about at the beginning of the occupation the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation would be placed in Jerusalem at the end of the occupation.
That would mean the abomination would be placed at the time of the end when the beast attacks Jerusalem killing its defenders. This coresponds to the king of the south attacking the king of the north who military is stationed in Jerusalem.

Now compare these verses. The first is the king of the north responding to the king of the souths attack.
Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.
Daniel 11:41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall. But these will be delivered from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the leaders of the Ammonites.
Daniel 11:42 He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape.
Daniel 11:43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushites will also submit to him.
Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.
Daniel 11:45 He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him.
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

Now remember that last verse well because you will hear Jesus say the same thing again in the Bible when speaking of the abomination of desolation.


Matthew 24:15 NIV: "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--
Matthew 24:16 NIV: then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Matthew 24:17 NIV: Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house.
Matthew 24:18 NIV: Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.
Matthew 24:19 NIV: How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!
Matthew 24:20 NIV: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
Matthew 24:21 NIV: For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

See that? Now we must conclude the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces of the north AFTER the king of the south(the beast) attacks and kills the norths armed forces in Jerusalem.

According to Daniel 12 :1,it is at that time that Danie'sl people would be raised from the dead. This timing corresponds to the two witnesses coming back to life in Revelation. The next thing to happen is a cloud rises from Jerusalem.

I find it very interesting a cloud rises from Jerusalem the same time a divice (used to cause desolation) is placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces.

Does anyone know of a device used to cause desolation that causes a cloud to rise into the heavens?

You are MISUNDERSTANDING the Daniel 12 Chapter events.

The 1290 days ONLY occur AFTER the 1260 days of Revelation 11, which is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing.

Jesus is shown having RETURNED on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe timing, per Revelation 11.

Thus the 1260 days that God's two witnesses prophesy against the beast is DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION. The 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12 thus MUST be AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

 

[shilohsfoal]

It doesn't work like that brother. He's a Gentile King/President of the E.U. (Fourth Beasts 10 Horns) and they freely give their power unto him, so the 10 (ALL the E.U. vote him in, he doesn't conquest his way to power) stands for the E.U. Nations completely reuniting. But he can only REDO an agreement that is already at hand. That is the European Neighborhood Policy Agreements.

He Conquers Jerusalem, Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region at the 1260, so he's not there yet, and will not be until the 1260, he will get this HOST (Jewish High Priest) to do his will at the 1290 event which happens 30 days before the 1260.

If the ten horns attack Jerusalem as it is written then Jerusalem is that whore th at sits opon the beast that they hate. If Rome was that whore the ten horns hate, they would have attacked Rome and not Jerusalem. Seems you have a problem here because Jerusalem doesn't share the same kingdom with anyone in the EU. Jerusalem does share the same kingdom with the other occupants of the promised land.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You are MISUNDERSTANDING the Daniel 12 Chapter events.

The 1290 days ONLY occur AFTER the 1260 days of Revelation 11, which is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing.

Jesus is shown having RETURNED on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe timing, per Revelation 11.

Thus the 1260 days that God's two witnesses prophesy against the beast is DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION. The 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12 thus MUST be AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

So your saying the Gentiles don't occupy Jerusalem for 42 months as revelation says but you believe the Gentiles shall occupy Jerusalem for 7 years?

Revelation 11:2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.

I believe revelation and Daniel are talking about the same 42 months that the Gentiles occupy Jerusalem and they don't occupy it any longer than that 42 months.

 

[Davy]

If the ten horns attack Jerusalem as it is written then Jerusalem is that whore th at sits opon the beast that they hate. If Rome was that whore the ten horns hate, they would have attacked Rome and not Jerusalem. Seems you have a problem here because Jerusalem doesn't share the same kingdom with anyone in the EU. Jerusalem does share the same kingdom with the other occupants of the promised land.

Jerusalem is the Babylon Harlot of Revelation. No disagreement there. So go back to Daniel 2 and look at the 'structure' of kingdoms for the very end when Jesus returns to setup His eternal literal kingdom on earth.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

There are FIVE pieces to the beast statue image.
1. "gold" = old Babylon empire under Nebuchadnezzar
2. "silver" = Medo-Persia empire that conquered old Babylon
3. "brass" = Alexander's Greece, which conquered Medo-Persia
4. "iron" = Roman empire that conquered next
5. "clay" = world empire for the very end, the beast of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns of Revelation.

All FIVE of those are shown BROKEN TO PIECES TOGETHER by Christ when He comes. The "stone" cut out without hands represents Lord Jesus Christ.

What does that mean then? It means ALL... of those OLD beast kingdoms of past history are going to be revived... for the coming "one world government" system that will cover the WHOLE EARTH. Will they be literally... just like the old beast kingdoms? Not literally, but spiritually YES. The coming false-Messiah will be 'king' over them ALL, and like Apostle Paul said, over all that is CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPED. That means over ALL religions on earth.

Thus the Babylon Harlot simply represents ground zero for the coming one-world beast kingdom, with the "another beast" reigning over it ALL... from Jerusalem.

 

[Davy]

So your saying the Gentiles don't occupy Jerusalem for 42 months as revelation says but you believe the Gentiles shall occupy Jerusalem for 7 years?

Is there someone behind you telling you I said those things? I never said that, so why would you infer I said it? Stick to what I said in my posts, and Scripture, and there won't be confusion.

I believe revelation and Daniel are talking about the same 42 months that the Gentiles occupy Jerusalem and they don't occupy it any longer than that 42 months.

Both Daniel and Revelation are pointing to the same time of the end, the 42 months or 1260 days of the dragon's reign, and the time when the outer court of the new temple pointed to in Revelation 11 is given for the Gentiles to tread 42 months. We are shown there in Revelation 11 that is the SAME time God's two witnesses appear in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. Thus the 42 months is the same time as the 1260 days, which is the same as the time, times and half a time of Daniel, or LATTER HALF of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27.

Thus the time of "great tribulation" is the LATTER HALF of the 7 years "one week". What's HALF of 7 years??

It is 1260 days, or 42 months, or a time, times, and half a time.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Jerusalem is the Babylon Harlot of Revelation. No disagreement there. So go back to Daniel 2 and look at the 'structure' of kingdoms for the very end when Jesus returns to setup His eternal literal kingdom on earth.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

There are FIVE pieces to the beast statue image.
1. "gold" = old Babylon empire under Nebuchadnezzar
2. "silver" = Medo-Persia empire that conquered old Babylon
3. "brass" = Alexander's Greece, which conquered Medo-Persia
4. "iron" = Roman empire that conquered next
5. "clay" = world empire for the very end, the beast of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns of Revelation.

All FIVE of those are shown BROKEN TO PIECES TOGETHER by Christ when He comes. The "stone" cut out without hands represents Lord Jesus Christ.

What does that mean then? It means ALL... of those OLD beast kingdoms of past history are going to be revived... for the coming "one world government" system that will cover the WHOLE EARTH. Will they be literally... just like the old beast kingdoms? Not literally, but spiritually YES. The coming false-Messiah will be 'king' over them ALL, and like Apostle Paul said, over all that is CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPED. That means over ALL religions on earth.

Thus the Babylon Harlot simply represents ground zero for the coming one-world beast kingdom, with the "another beast" reigning over it ALL... from Jerusalem.

I don't believe Rome was the forth beast Daniel was writing about. I believe Davie was writing about the same kingdom which has gone through stages of differing governments and administration's. As of now that kingdom resembles the forth beast. That kingdom that resembles the forth beast is the promised land with Jerusalem sitting upon that beast. It never had anything to do with Rome.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Is there someone behind you telling you I said those things? I never said that, so why would you infer I said it? Stick to what I said in my posts, and Scripture, and there won't be confusion.



Both Daniel and Revelation are pointing to the same time of the end, the 42 months or 1260 days of the dragon's reign, and the time when the outer court of the new temple pointed to in Revelation 11 is given for the Gentiles to tread 42 months. We are shown there in Revelation 11 that is the SAME time God's two witnesses appear in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. Thus the 42 months is the same time as the 1260 days, which is the same as the time, times and half a time of Daniel, or LATTER HALF of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27.

Thus the time of "great tribulation" is the LATTER HALF of the 7 years "one week". What's HALF of 7 years??

It is 1260 days, or 42 months, or a time, times, and half a time.

I don't believe in a 7 year tribulation. I only believe in the 42 month tribulation Daniel wrote about during the 42 months when the Gentiles occupy Jerusalem. It starts after the daily sacrifice is abolished and End with the abomination of desolation which is when the resurection takes place.

 

[ScottA]

No, the armed forces of the north do not use a cross. Nor does a cross cause desolation.

Sorry to hear that you are so far from the gospel that you do not see.

 

[Davy]

I don't believe Rome was the forth beast Daniel was writing about. I believe Davie was writing about the same kingdom which has gone through stages of differing governments and administration's. As of now that kingdom resembles the forth beast. That kingdom that resembles the forth beast is the promised land with Jerusalem sitting upon that beast. It never had anything to do with Rome.

I certainly do believe the "legs of iron" represent the ancient Roman empire, a PAGAN empire.

If you dwell on the idea of the fourth beast, you will be deceived by numbers, something our Lord Jesus also did in His Book of Revelation to confuse the profane from understanding it. To grasp what I'm showing from Daniel 2, one MUST understand that the beast image that Neb saw in his dream has FIVE PARTS, not FOUR.

And the Daniel 2 Scripture I showed mentions the LAST part being that of "clay".

Some believe today's Rome will represent a 'revival' of the old Roman empire because of the feet of ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay. So those point to Rome and the future Antichrist being from Rome. I am not saying that. I am pointing directly... to the FINAL BEAST that will be established when Jesus returns, and that final beast will be headquarted from Jerusalem involving a pseudo-Christ, and will be a WORLD-WIDE beast kingdom covering the WHOLE EARTH, and thus ALL... the previous beast parts that came before it.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Sorry to hear that you are so far from the gospel that you do not see.

Jesus said when they people in Judea would see the abomination of desolation, that they would flee as fast as they could to the mountains. I don't believe a single person did that when they saw a cross. I do remember John taking marry home though.

 

[covenantee]

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other here.
Was not Jesus talking about the abomination of desolation here when he said those in Judea would flee to the mountains?

Yes.

The abomination of desolation was identified by Luke in Luke 21:20.

The Roman armies.

Whose temporary withdrawal enabled the Judean Christians to flee to the mountains.

 

[Davy]

I don't believe in a 7 year tribulation.

I don't either, so are you trying... to infer that I do? Do you always hear 'voices' or something, and think that's what others are saying?

I only believe in the 42 month tribulation Daniel wrote about during the 42 months when the Gentiles occupy Jerusalem. It starts after the daily sacrifice is abolished and End with the abomination of desolation which is when the resurection takes place.

If you HAD READ what I posted, you would have KNOWN that I also believe the actual time of the "great tribulation" will be the LATTER HALF of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, a period of 1260 days.

The Daniel 9:27 "one week" REPRESENTS A PERIOD OF 7 YEARS PER THE 70 WEEKS PROPHECY. So what's wrong with you, can't you take time to read what I wrote?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I certainly do believe the "legs of iron" represent the ancient Roman empire, a PAGAN empire.

If you dwell on the idea of the fourth beast, you will be deceived by numbers, something our Lord Jesus also did in His Book of Revelation to confuse the profane from understanding it. To grasp what I'm showing from Daniel 2, one MUST understand that the beast image that Neb saw in his dream has FIVE PARTS, not FOUR.

And the Daniel 2 Scripture I showed mentions the LAST part being that of "clay".

Some believe today's Rome will represent a 'revival' of the old Roman empire because of the feet of ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay. So those point to Rome and the future Antichrist being from Rome. I am not saying that. I am pointing directly... to the FINAL BEAST that will be established when Jesus returns, and that final beast will be headquarted from Jerusalem involving a pseudo-Christ, and will be a WORLD-WIDE beast kingdom covering the WHOLE EARTH, and thus ALL... the previous beast parts that came before it.

Well, I don't believe any of that. I believe the Israeli goverment in Jerusalem today is reigning over Israel in Christ's place. Remember Christ is king of Israel.
I believe the Muslim nations want Jerusalem for thier own though and will take it for a very short time before they are destroyed.

 

[Davy]

Jesus said when they people in Judea would see the abomination of desolation, that they would flee as fast as they could to the mountains. I don't believe a single person did that when they saw a cross. I do remember John taking marry home though.

You just lost me. I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Jesus' teaching about the event of the "abomination of desolation" is for the LAST GENERATION on this earth, NOT for the time of His crucifixion.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Yes.

The abomination of desolation was identified by Luke in Luke 21:20.

The Roman armies.

Whose temporary withdrawal enabled the Judean Christians to flee to the mountains.

And do you believe this time of great distress Jesus speaks of here took place in 70 AD?

Matthew 24:21 NIV: For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.