Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?

[David in NJ]

I have seen "speaking in tongues" used as a status symbol in a church. If you don't "speak in tongues," then you are considered inferior to the others. Therefore, people speak in gibberish, as if they were speaking in tongues, just to "prove" they aren't inferior.

AGREE - i have seen this also

Do not focus on those people but keep your mind/heart on what God has spoken in the Word.

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry, I/m being thick-headed here.
Can you elaborate?
I don't see Apollos in Acts chapter one. ???

lol my Brother - you read the post and you were seeing Acts 1 when it said: (1 Corinthians 1)
"The same individual in Acts is mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapter 1 = this is not by chance
Read tonight the account in Acts with Apollos and the follow up with Paul"

Read Acts ch18 into 19:1-5

 

[amadeus]

Or more likely, speak in tongues perfectly, completely. Fluently, with understanding and freedom of expression.

Fluent communication with God continuously? Is it always flowing from Him to us, but too often not from us to Him? How is our hearing?

Joh 10:4

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Joh 10:27

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Mt 11:15

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mt 13:14	And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15	For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16	But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[amadeus]

Originally, the purpose of tongues was for people to spread the gospel to people who spoke different languages, if I am not mistaken. For example, I don't speak Spanish, but the gift of tongues would allow me to spread the gospel in Spanish to people who spoke Spanish.

Now the "gift of tongues" seems to mean you speak out in language nobody understands during a worship service. I have my doubts if that is really speaking in tongues.

How are tongues different than the parables spoken by Jesus when he was walking as a man in the flesh?

Mt 13:10	And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mt 13:11	He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Do not some or even many people speak effectively in parables [as the Spirit giveth utterance] to others without speaking in [unknown] tongues?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I have seen "speaking in tongues" used as a status symbol in a church. If you don't "speak in tongues," then you are considered inferior to the others. Therefore, people speak in gibberish, as if they were speaking in tongues, just to "prove" they aren't inferior.

So you speak in tongues and can tell the difference between the real gibberish and the fake gibberish?

 

[St. SteVen]

How is our hearing?

That's an interesting question/subject.

And it seems to be somewhat personalized, even for the mature.
My wife has better spiritual "ears" than I do.
But on the rare occasions that I do "hear", it is LOUD and CLEAR.

Remembrance of scriptures is constant. Especially on the forum.
But in my day-to-day life as well. Situations spark scriptures to my memory.

Seems to be a LOUD and quiet voice of God to be heard.
The quiet voice seems more uncertain to me. I ask...
"Was that God, or the pizza talking?" - LOL

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's an interesting question/subject.

And it seems to be somewhat personalized, even for the mature.
My wife has better spiritual "ears" than I do.
But on the rare occasions that I do "hear", it is LOUD and CLEAR.

Remembrance of scriptures is constant. Especially on the forum.
But in my day-to-day life as well. Situations spark scriptures to my memory.

Seems to be a LOUD and quiet voice of God to be heard.
The quiet voice seems more uncertain to me. I ask...
"Was that God, or the pizza talking?" - LOL

I didn't even know if God existed for sure for the first 30 years of my life because He never answered one prayer. Until He spoke to me. And I know exactly what you mean by a LOUD and quiet voice. I asked Him a question I was stumped on, and He said "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

[amadeus]

That's an interesting question/subject.

And it seems to be somewhat personalized, even for the mature.
My wife has better spiritual "ears" than I do.

My wife has from our beginning walking together with God had the better spiritual ears for our personal needs and decisions. It took me a while to accept this. I learned a very long time ago to listen closely when she heard from Him...

But on the rare occasions that I do "hear", it is LOUD and CLEAR.

Remembrance of scriptures is constant. Especially on the forum.
But in my day-to-day life as well. Situations spark scriptures to my memory.

Seems to be a LOUD and quiet voice of God to be heard.
The quiet voice seems more uncertain to me. I ask...
"Was that God, or the pizza talking?" - LOL

The good thing is that we DO hear, whether it is a loud or a quiet voice of God. Just keep on listening!

 

[St. SteVen]

Another shameless plug for a new forum topic. (tee hee)

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe? Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church? There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about. Brainwashing, obviously. Not to say...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

I didn't even know if God existed for sure for the first 30 years of my life because He never answered one prayer. Until He spoke to me. And I know exactly what you mean by a LOUD and quiet voice. I asked Him a question I was stumped on, and He said "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

LOL - That's funny, but so true.

My personal favorite is when God clearly tells me to talk to a stranger he points out.
I ask, "What should I say?" (crickets) No response. - LOL
So, out of obedience I approach the person and start a conversation.
It then becomes obvious to me what needs to be said. But... Seriously?

 

[St. SteVen]

My wife has from our beginning walking together with God had the better spiritual ears for our personal needs and decisions. It took me a while to accept this. I learned a very long time ago to listen closely when she heard from Him...

Interesting how the giftings in a Christian couple are complimentary to each other.
And YES, I definitely take what my wife says seriously. I still have to make a decision, but...

 

[St. SteVen]

@Patrick1966 @amadeus @1stCenturyLady

Interesting how TONGUES is the HUGE topic issue here, when there is SO MUCH more to it.
As we are currently discussing.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello to the Original Poster,

From my perspective, I do not believe anyone speaks tongues unless they learn a language that is second nature to them. That is why interpreters much exist, for a reason for communication with another foreign strangers who may or may not be native to your own language.

I dont really believe signs like this happen anymore, though there are people who believe that they do, and there is nothing but love and respect there, tongues was something that happened mainly in one event during the last days, (then God would come by and with the Spirit to live by in flesh, being born again), and that last days, the holy spirit dropped, and others started speaking to other people in their own languages which is a miracle and by the power of the spirit that this seemed to have been caused by.

But for what reason? Until the end of the Age came; and thus now even today; God is reaching many people through Nature, hearing of God's word, and putting his spirit in those people.

Another view though on tongues, is like this: In the narrative it is, another language that is spoken.

If you consider a subject of the language of the world, and the language of the Heavenly - by the Spirit - Tongues can still exist right along with prophecy, which is normally seen as encouraging people in the faith; and talking by and through walking in faith by and through the Holy Spirit. God gives you an abundant life with Christ as you seek out God faithfully, and he rewards you with spiritual insights and wisdom and allows you to share that with other believers as you go along the way, as the bible is made only for believers.

 

[David in NJ]

Hello to the Original Poster,

From my perspective, I do not believe anyone speaks tongues unless they learn a language that is second nature to them. That is why interpreters much exist, for a reason for communication with another foreign strangers who may or may not be native to your own language.

I dont really believe signs like this happen anymore, though there are people who believe that they do, and there is nothing but love and respect there, tongues was something that happened mainly in one event during the last days, (then God would come by and with the Spirit to live by in flesh, being born again), and that last days, the holy spirit dropped, and others started speaking to other people in their own languages which is a miracle and by the power of the spirit that this seemed to have been caused by.

But for what reason? Until the end of the Age came; and thus now even today; God is reaching many people through Nature, hearing of God's word, and putting his spirit in those people.

Another view though on tongues, is like this: In the narrative it is, another language that is spoken.

If you consider a subject of the language of the world, and the language of the Heavenly - by the Spirit - Tongues can still exist right along with prophecy, which is normally seen as encouraging people in the faith; and talking by and through walking in faith by and through the Holy Spirit. God gives you an abundant life with Christ as you seek out God faithfully, and he rewards you with spiritual insights and wisdom and allows you to share that with other believers as you go along the way, as the bible is made only for believers.

Don't make excuses!
Just come right out and say: "I do not believe God at His word."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

LOL - That's funny, but so true.

My personal favorite is when God clearly tells me to talk to a stranger he points out.
I ask, "What should I say?" (crickets) No response. - LOL
So, out of obedience I approach the person and start a conversation.
It then becomes obvious to me what needs to be said. But... Seriously?

That first word to me let me know God existed. Then I immediately saw a vision of my sin. And I repented. Then He spoke 8 sentences to me that seared right through me. Then I repented again. And finally it happened. Jesus took away the sin in my nature completely (it felt like a heavy weight lifted off of me and I felt like I could float) and I was sinless, and then He filled me with His Spirit which felt like warm oil from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. Ever since then I've been able to hear His voice clearly for the past 46 years, and abide in Him to remain sinless.

The doctrine of actual freedom from sin died with the apostles. The Catholics brought in confessionals, and the Reformation perverted grace to be a license to sin and because of Calvinism sinlessness is now being mocked. John MacArthur is probably the worst. Watch his sermon on YouTube on Simultaneously Righteous and a Sinner.

 

[MatthewG]

Don't make excuses!
Just come right out and say: "I do not believe God at His word."

That seems a little absurd to say... There are many different ways people see the scriptures; no one can help that. There is nothing wrong with what was stated either; looking at it in a certain way.

I have yet to see someone just start speaking a language to another group of people in my own life beside someone who knows the language.

Therefore; when the Holy Spirit dropped; I do believe the narrative written about Peter and his proclamation that the Last Days were upon them. Also they were given the ability to speak other languages so that the narrative of the Gospel could continue forward, by Paul, who proclaimed that he reached the whole world.

Colossians 1:23
You must not leave the hope of the Good News you received. The Good News was preached to you and to all the world. And I, Paul, am one of Christ's missionaries.

At least, it was presented to the people at Colossia, that the Good News was preached to them, and all the world.

So what does on believe about scripture, and traditions of subjects that been around for 1000s of years?

What is true? What makes sense, and What does not make sense?

Up to the individual; to seek God in faith; and be lead by the spirit - and supposedly once one finds truth, they are set free.

John 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Truth in what I believe is that; Jesus has came back and restored everything that needed to be done. Tongues; in a sense can be catagorized as the Langauge of the World, and Language of the Heavenly (Spirit lead subjects to talk about God). That as a subject matter is plausible;

When you speak to other believers; they understand what you are saying as they are believers and perhaps you share the word with each other and learn from one another as you go along in life, edifying, and having love for God and love for ones neighbor.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hello to the Original Poster,

From my perspective, I do not believe anyone speaks tongues unless they learn a language that is second nature to them. That is why interpreters much exist, for a reason for communication with another foreign strangers who may or may not be native to your own language.

I dont really believe signs like this happen anymore, though there are people who believe that they do, and there is nothing but love and respect there, tongues was something that happened mainly in one event during the last days, (then God would come by and with the Spirit to live by in flesh, being born again), and that last days, the holy spirit dropped, and others started speaking to other people in their own languages which is a miracle and by the power of the spirit that this seemed to have been caused by.

But for what reason? Until the end of the Age came; and thus now even today; God is reaching many people through Nature, hearing of God's word, and putting his spirit in those people.

Another view though on tongues, is like this: In the narrative it is, another language that is spoken.

If you consider a subject of the language of the world, and the language of the Heavenly - by the Spirit - Tongues can still exist right along with prophecy, which is normally seen as encouraging people in the faith; and talking by and through walking in faith by and through the Holy Spirit. God gives you an abundant life with Christ as you seek out God faithfully, and he rewards you with spiritual insights and wisdom and allows you to share that with other believers as you go along the way, as the bible is made only for believers.

God is Supernatural. That is why natural man cannot understand Him. ALL the gifts of the Spirit are SUPERNATURAL, including tongues and interpretation of tongues. I thought everybody knew that much. You just can't understand if you think it is a learned language.

 

[MatthewG]

God is Supernatural. That is why natural man cannot understand Him. ALL the gifts of the Spirit are SUPERNATURAL, including tongues and interpretation of tongues. I though everybody knew that much. You just can't understand if you think it is a learned language.

The narrative states that they all started talking together and hearing each other; sorta of like the Tower of Babel, but it was restored by the Spirit - to have the spirit lead people to encourage and edify others as they go along in this life. However, people need to get out there bible and read, Acts 2 out loud, and they will discover the evidence there - but what one believes about that is totally subjective.

 

[MatthewG]

Acts Chapter 2, recorded by Luke, a Gentile.

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.

7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia,Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome

11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”

Peter Addresses the Crowd​

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarchDavid died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

The Fellowship of the Believers​

42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966 @amadeus @1stCenturyLady

Interesting how TONGUES is the HUGE topic issue here, when there is SO MUCH more to it.
As we are currently discussing.

That's a mystery to me. I don't really understand it but it is fascinating.