I dont know how God feels friend. Faith pleases God that is all I know. People believe what they want and that is fine with me too. You take care.
Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Right. The interpretation of tongues they sovereignly received from the Spirit led them to repent and be baptized that day. They understood their own languages supernaturally, while someone else heard their own language supernaturally. It also says they heard THEM, thus like a choir.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The lost doctrine from the apostles that died when the church became worldly and they put up confessionals was sinlessness. But that is the "evidence" of being saved. So if your faith is of a definition that your faith is based on Jesus saves you in spite of willful sin read Revelation 22:11
“Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. It was by faith that Abel brought a more acceptable offering to God than Cain did. Abel’s offering gave evidence that he was a righteous man, and God showed his approval of his gifts. Although Abel is long dead, he still speaks to us by his example of faith.”
Hebrews 11:1-4 NLT
Hebrews 11:1-4 Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire | New Living Translation (NLT) | D
Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire
bible.com
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
An interesting topic and an emotive one for many....but don’t we need to ask why this ability to speak in different languages was granted and enabled by God’s spirit in the first century after Christ’s death and resurrection? Plainly, it was for the preaching of the word of God, among Jewish people who were foreign language speakers. All of the first Christians were Jewish and these had come to Jerusalem for the festival of Pentecost....and this was a great opportunity for the newly formed Christian body to carry out their commission to make disciples and to teach them....what better way to spread the word than to preach to these Jews in their own languages. These in turn would take the message back to their home country and spread the Christian message there. This was the original purpose of Christ’s disciples speaking in those foreign languages..
If at a gathering, someone wanted to speak in tongues, they were forbidden to do so unless there was an interpreter. (1 Cor 14:27-28) It wasn’t gibberish as is demonstrated by those claim to speak in tongues today. Many Pentecostals have confessed to faking the tongues so that they would gain acceptance from the congregation.
The gifts were given to prove that God had shifted his favor from the corrupted Jewish system to the pure teachings of Jesus Christ, and in the wake of his death and resurrection, this was now in the hands of his apostles. These in turn carried on with the work that Jesus assigned to them. (Matthew 24:14)
When Paul said...”But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.”......he was telling his fellow Christians that once the gifts had fulfilled what they were sent to accomplish, there would no longer be a need for such things.
He continued....”When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. . . . . 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.”
The way to identify true Christians was no longer by the use of supernatural miracles because the need to see miracles was likened to the traits of a child....mature Christians needed to grow up in the faith and to cultivate the fruits of the spirit....”faith, hope and love” especially would now identify them, rather than people coming to them to see ‘tricks’, which would not suffice to make them grow in the faith.
It is very interesting that the apostle Paul mentions in 2 Thess 2: 1-12, that satan can also perform “powerful works, lying signs and wonders” to deceive people in order to lead them off the path to life....
“However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him. . . . . .3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. . . . 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
So, speaking the in tongues had its time and its purpose, but supernatural tricks could be mimicked by the devil, so it was necessary in Christ’s mature disciples to demonstrate those important qualities of “faith, hope and love”......ones that the devil could not produce in his minions. Like the Pharisees proved that they were neither faithful nor loving to the “lost sheep” whom Jesus came to save.
Since the gifts were to cease, any demonstrations of miracles in the future, would be poor imitations from God’s adversary. Paul said that God allowed a deceptive influence to overtake those who wanted to believe this lie. Are we easily fooled?
If at a gathering, someone wanted to speak in tongues, they were forbidden to do so unless there was an interpreter. (1 Cor 14:27-28) It wasn’t gibberish as is demonstrated by those claim to speak in tongues today. Many Pentecostals have confessed to faking the tongues so that they would gain acceptance from the congregation.
The gifts were given to prove that God had shifted his favor from the corrupted Jewish system to the pure teachings of Jesus Christ, and in the wake of his death and resurrection, this was now in the hands of his apostles. These in turn carried on with the work that Jesus assigned to them. (Matthew 24:14)
When Paul said...”But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.”......he was telling his fellow Christians that once the gifts had fulfilled what they were sent to accomplish, there would no longer be a need for such things.
He continued....”When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. . . . . 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.”
The way to identify true Christians was no longer by the use of supernatural miracles because the need to see miracles was likened to the traits of a child....mature Christians needed to grow up in the faith and to cultivate the fruits of the spirit....”faith, hope and love” especially would now identify them, rather than people coming to them to see ‘tricks’, which would not suffice to make them grow in the faith.
It is very interesting that the apostle Paul mentions in 2 Thess 2: 1-12, that satan can also perform “powerful works, lying signs and wonders” to deceive people in order to lead them off the path to life....
“However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him. . . . . .3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. . . . 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
So, speaking the in tongues had its time and its purpose, but supernatural tricks could be mimicked by the devil, so it was necessary in Christ’s mature disciples to demonstrate those important qualities of “faith, hope and love”......ones that the devil could not produce in his minions. Like the Pharisees proved that they were neither faithful nor loving to the “lost sheep” whom Jesus came to save.
Since the gifts were to cease, any demonstrations of miracles in the future, would be poor imitations from God’s adversary. Paul said that God allowed a deceptive influence to overtake those who wanted to believe this lie. Are we easily fooled?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I'm killing you? It's very simple: Speak in tongues all you want - just don't do it in assembly when no one is there to interpret.Bob, you're killing me!
Let's try this again.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one HEARD their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us HEARS them in our native language?
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one INTERPRETS their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us INTERPRETS them in our native language?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
So tell me about what happened on the Day of Pentecost. Did the Jews understand their languages or not? Were the disciples speaking their languages?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
To me, that's the whole point - wasn't speaking in tongues supposed to allow people to preach the gospel to people who spoke other languages? To me, that was the whole purpose of speaking in tongues: If you spoke French and I spoke Russian, the gift of tongues allowed me to preach the gospel to you, or vice versa.
So why are people speaking in tongues during assembly when no one is there to interpret, especially considering Paul told us not to?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
NO! That is a contradiction to 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
Tell me the truth. Are you even reading what I've written to you?
You're killing me, because I've shown you a number of times that your doctrine of man is false. You ask where is the interpreter? I showed you. THEY WERE THE INTERPRETER. THEY RECEIVED THE SUPERNATURAL INTERPRETATION IN EACH PERSON'S OWN LANGUAGE.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one HEARD their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us HEARS them in our native language?
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one INTERPRETS their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us INTERPRETS them in our native language?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Morning Brother Bob,
Yesterday you posted that you just want to "love and trust God with your whole heart".
That is my desire also.
The Glory of John ch4/Acts ch1 & ch2 was Prophesied in the Old Testament.
So the VERY THING that took place in Acts ch2 was God's Signature Blessing upon His People and for all who would believe.
Do you know where in the OT that Acts ch2 connects?
| 1co 14:28 | But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. |
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Jesus was the Interpreter of the parables he spoke. The Holy Spirit would be the Interpreter of the [unknown] tongues people speak.
| Mt 13:10 | And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? |
| Mt 13:11 | He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. |
| Mt 13:12 | For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. |
| Mt 13:13 | Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. |
| Mt 13:14 | And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: |
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about on the Day of Pentecost. Who interpreted the tongues the disciples were speaking?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Of course not, but your preconceived belief is unscriptural.
Bob, someone was there to interpret on the Day of Pentecost.
Who?
Does the Holy Spirit have more than one function? Do people ever have more than one gift from God?
If all the scripture was written by people as inspired by God why is it that not every person reading the scriptures understands always precisely the same thing for the same passage or passages? Perhaps according to a person's heart, the Holy Spirit also inspires the readers or the hearers of words read or spoken?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Bob,
Jesus is this:
a.) John 1:1 - the WORD that was God in the Beginning
b.) Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty."
All the Blessings that we see in the New Covenant were first spoken of in Genesis and the Prophets.
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