Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?

[1stCenturyLady]

Does the Holy Spirit have more than one function? Do people ever have more than one gift from God?

If all the scripture was written by people as inspired by God why is it that not every person reading the scriptures understands always precisely the same thing for the same passage or passages? Perhaps according to a person's heart, the Holy Spirit also inspires the readers or the hearers of words read or spoken?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. There is only ONE Author to the Scriptures. There is only ONE correct interpretation to the Scriputures. It is up to us to study as much as we can so no doctrine of demons undermines their understanding.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Bob,

Jesus is this:
a.) John 1:1 - the WORD that was God in the Beginning
b.) Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega,d” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty."

All the Blessings that we see in the New Covenant were first spoken of in Genesis and the Prophets.

David, Bob is confused enough without throwing in another topic. Stick to the OP until he understands what happened on the Day of Pentecost.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It looks like Bob left and didn't tell us. I'm going for coffee everyone. See you later.

 

[MatthewG]

To me, that's the whole point - wasn't speaking in tongues supposed to allow people to preach the gospel to people who spoke other languages? To me, that was the whole purpose of speaking in tongues: If you spoke French and I spoke Russian, the gift of tongues allowed me to preach the gospel to you, or vice versa.

So why are people speaking in tongues during assembly when no one is there to interpret, especially considering Paul told us not to?

Yes. And it did, help progress the gospel further.

 

[Bob Estey]

Of course not, but your preconceived belief is unscriptural.

Bob, someone was there to interpret on the Day of Pentecost.

Who?

Those who listened, who understood the languages that were being spoken.

 

[amadeus]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. There is only ONE Author to the Scriptures. There is only ONE correct interpretation to the Scriputures. It is up to us to study as much as we can so no doctrine of demons undermines their understanding.

While you are most certainly correct about ONE author and ultimately only ONE interpretation, there are different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions in different stages of growth toward maturity... that is in becoming more like Him:

1co 12:14

For the body is not one member, but many.

Eph 4:11	And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12	For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13	Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14	That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15	But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16	From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Those who listened, who understood the languages that were being spoken.

Exactly, but did they understand naturally or supernaturally?

Remember you cannot interpret Acts 2 in contradiction to 1 Corinthians 14:2 that no one understand tongues except God. So think carefully.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

While you are most certainly correct about ONE author and ultimately only ONE interpretation, there are different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions in different stages of growth toward maturity... that is in becoming more like Him:

1co 12:14

For the body is not one member, but many.

Eph 4:11	And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12	For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13	Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14	That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15	But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16	From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

What I'm saying about this OP is that the meaning of Acts 2 cannot contradict 1 Corinthians 14:2. Do you agree? 1 Corinthians 14:2 has one meaning about tongues spoken by themselves.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes. And it did, help progress the gospel further.

Matthew you can't just believe anything that tickles your ears, but contradicts the Word of God!

 

[Bob Estey]

Exactly, but did they understand naturally or supernaturally?

Remember you cannot interpret Acts 2 in contradiction to 1 Corinthians 14:2 that no one understand tongues except God. So think carefully.

Paul is the one who said women can't speak when they are in a church, and I, for one, think he was mistaken. So why can't there be a contradiction?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul is the one who said women can't speak when they are in a church, and I, for one, think he was mistaken. So why can't there be a contradiction?

Women not speaking or teaching was a Jewish cultural law. Females didn't even go to school!

Rules on the Gifts of the Spirit do not have that liberty.

At the end of chapter 14 Paul writes this:
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But]if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

And Bob, when you know the truth that all the different devout Jews gathered around witnessing the disciples speak in tongues, received the GIFT OF INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES. When you read the account is was not a cacophony of different languages that each of those devout Jews gathered heard. How could they even pick out their own language out of the 120 different languages being spoken. No, each devout Jew heard all of the disciples speaking his own language like a choir. A Frenchman heard them all speak French. A Spaniard heard all of them speaking Spanish. A Russian heard all of them speaking Russian. Those are just examples of what it was like.

When the Holy Spirit fell, not only did the disciples receive a gift, but those God was drawing to Christ was sovereignly given the gift of interpretation of tongues, the ONLY means they could understand, seeing as "no man understands (naturally), no matter what you want to believe to the contrary.

Get it?

 

[Bob Estey]

Women not speaking or teaching was a Jewish cultural law. Females didn't even go to school!

Rules on the Gifts of the Spirit do not have that liberty.

At the end of chapter 14 Paul writes this:
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But]if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

And Bob, when you know the truth that all the different devout Jews gathered around witnessing the disciples speak in tongues, received the GIFT OF INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES. When you read the account is was not a cacophony of different languages that each of those devout Jews gathered heard. How could they even pick out their own language out of the 120 different languages being spoken. No, each devout Jew heard all of the disciples speaking his own language like a choir. A Frenchman heard them all speak French. A Spaniard heard all of them speaking Spanish. A Russian heard all of them speaking Russian. Those are just examples of what it was like.

When the Holy Spirit fell, not only did the disciples receive a gift, but those God was drawing to Christ was sovereignly given the gift of interpretation of tongues, the ONLY means they could understand, seeing as "no man understands (naturally), no matter what you want to believe to the contrary.

Get it?

So we agree that Paul was mistaken once (about women not being able to speak when they were in churches).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So we agree that Paul was mistaken once (about women not being able to speak when they were in churches).

Yes. But only because it was cultural. The same with men with long hair? There is nothing supernatural about either of those. You can also tell by the context before and after that 34 and 35 were added later. Also his words about women to Timothy was his opinion, not a commandment of God. Besides he was wrong. Eve didn't cause the fall. Adam did. He doesn't even mention Adam. They were two different types of sins. Paul also said in 1 Cor. 7 that sometimes he gives his own opinion, and the other times He writes the Word of God.

It makes you wonder if Paul being unmarried had anything to do with just not liking women. ;)

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes. But only because it was cultural. The same with men with long hair? There is nothing supernatural about either of those. You can also tell by the context before and after that 34 and 35 were added later. Also his words about women to Timothy was his opinion, not a commandment of God. Besides he was wrong. Eve didn't cause the fall. Adam did. He doesn't even mention Adam. They were two different types of sins. Paul also said in 1 Cor. 7 that sometimes he gives his own opinion, and the other times He writes the Word of God.

It makes you wonder if Paul being unmarried had anything to do with just not liking women. ;)

It doesn't matter that it was cultural - he was mistaken. It's okay for women to speak when they are in a church, I believe.

I'm not married and I don't dislike women.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It doesn't matter that it was cultural - he was mistaken. It's okay for women to speak when they are in a church, I believe.

I'm not married and I don't dislike women.

Can we get back to the Day of Pentecost? Which do you chose? The word of man, or the word of God?

 

[Bob Estey]

Can we get back to the Day of Pentecost? Which do you chose? The word of man, or the word of God?

Before I can answer your question, I have to know how you define the Word of God. I define it as those instances where God or Jesus are quoted in the Bible.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Before I can answer your question, I have to know how you define the Word of God. I define it as those instances where God or Jesus are quoted in the Bible.

The writings of the apostles are also Scripture. IOW inspired by God. Peter called Paul's writings Scripture. Did you know that? But that is only what Paul claims is from God.

Scripture explains Scripture.
Scriputure never contradicts other Scripture.

 

[Bob Estey]

The writings of the apostles are also Scripture. IOW inspired by God. Peter called Paul's writings Scripture. Did you know that? But that is only what Paul claims is from God.

Scripture explains Scripture.
Scriputure never contradicts other Scripture.

But we've already agreed Paul was wrong when he said women can't speak when they are in a church.

 

[DJT_47]

Think again. It clearly says they will cease when we SEE HIM FACE TO FACE. That is the 2nd Coming. Besides seeing God through a dark glass his how we see God now through the incomplete picture of His majesty in the writings.

Also take a course in covenants 101. NOTHING ceases inside of a covenant, and we are in the New Covenant of the Spirit, so His gifts have not ceased.

Not what face to face means

 

[1stCenturyLady]

But we've already agreed Paul was wrong when he said women can't speak when they are in a church.

But most of what Paul wrote was scripture. If you are filled with the Spirit and can hear His voice, you can discern what little is not scripture.