Tradition Versus Scripture

[Brakelite]

As for the "fear" of the Church by kings - name ONE king who was dethroneed and excommunicated for defying the Church.
Henry VIII not only defied the Church - he butchered the clergy.

Abraham Lincoln. And perhaps JFK.
God protected many whom the Catholic church attempted to destroy.
Elizabeth 1

 

[Aunty Jane]

Basically, what Rome has done is resurrected that which Jesus laid aside. Not only this, they have re-erected the curtain between God in the Most Holy Place and man, which God Himself tore down. Did you know there is a curtain in the confessional between the priest and the penitent?

I have studied the Bible with enough Catholic people to know that ignorance is cultivated on purpose. Don’t ask questions that they cannot answer......just do as they say because the pope sits in God’s seat and you will end up in hell if you fail to believe and to do, as you are told.

Yes, I know about the curtain, but I cannot find a single scripture that gives earthly “priests” the authority to forgive anyone......they themselves are sinners and have no right to forgive anyone because they cannot know if that person is repentant in their heart. Anyone can go through the motions like repeating the same phrase incessantly or the “Our Father” multiple times.....how is that penance? It’s a meaningless performance that simply allows them to go and sin again, absolved of the former wrongdoing. The fruit of repentance is a determination not to repeat the sin.

I cannot for the life of me imagine how this church can have people who justify their existence as a Christian body. To me they are the antichrist....but to them, I am. Jesus will decide.....soon I hope.

 

[Brakelite]

I have studied the Bible with enough Catholic people to know that ignorance is cultivated on purpose. Don’t ask questions that they cannot answer......just do as they say because the pope sits in God’s seat and you will end up in hell if you fail to believe and to do, as you are told.

Yes, I know about the curtain, but I cannot find a single scripture that gives earthly “priests” the authority to forgive anyone......they themselves are sinners and have no right to forgive anyone because they cannot know if that person is repentant in their heart. Anyone can go through the motions like repeating the same phrase incessantly or the “Our Father” multiple times.....how is that penance? It’s a meaningless performance that simply allows them to go and sin again, absolved of the former wrongdoing. The fruit of repentance is a determination not to repeat the sin.

I cannot for the life of me imagine how this church can have people who justify their existence as a Christian body. To me they are the antichrist....but to them, I am. Jesus will decide.....soon I hope.

What grates on me is how they have made prayer a punishment or penalty for sin, an act that the sinner must do to receive absolution. This is salvation by works. Apart from the obvious fact that Jesus took all our sins upon Himself, suffering the penalty in our stead. Catholicism however does not teach the blood atonement.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What grates on me is how they have made prayer a punishment or penalty for sin, an act that the dinner must do to receive absolution.

Is it prayer when all you do is mindlessly repeat words by rote?
Is using prayer beads a way to approach God in prayer?
What is said by Jesus before he gave the model prayer?
Matt 6:7-8....
“When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. 8 So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him.”

9 “You must pray, then, this way:“
He doesn’t say “pray this prayer”....but “pray this way”.....if a prayer doesn’t come from the heart, I do not believe that God hears it.

This is salvation by works. Apart from the obvious fact that Jesus took all our sins upon Himself, suffering the penalty in our stead. Catholicism however does not teach the blood atonement.

“Atonement” means “at-one-ment” or one for one....”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a life for a life” was part of God’s law. Jesus paid the price of redemption to buy back the human race that was thrown under the bus by Adam. He lost perfect sinless life for all of his children, so Jesus paid the debt in order to free them from sin and death.

Since Catholicism turns the bread and wine into Christ’s literal flesh and blood, they lose the whole meaning of the memorial that Jesus instituted with his anointed ones.......Not to mention breaking God’s law on the consumption of human flesh and blood. It is repugnant to say the least.

 

[Brakelite]

Is it prayer when all you do is mindlessly repeat words by rote

I'm sure God hears them, and acknowledges the sincere heart, and will lead them over time to right worship and to true faith. He has people in Babylon, and when they hear His call to come out, they will. There will be many Catholics in the resurrection along with others who from the heart sought after God and hungered for truth and righteousness, and lived fully up to the light they knew.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Col 2:16 "16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths

The word in the Douay is plural, not singular.

And yet, it STILL doesn't differentiate between the refular Sabbath and special or annual Sabbath feasts.

Sabbath days, period . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Abraham Lincoln. And perhaps JFK.
God protected many whom the Catholic church attempted to destroy.
Elizabeth 1

Looks like YOU'VE been reading too many Jack Chick comic books.

Amd, God "protected" the bllodthirsty Elizateth I??
What color is the sky oin your qoeld??

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm sure God hears them, and acknowledges the sincere heart, and will lead them over time to right worship and to true faith. He has people in Babylon, and when they hear His call to come out, they will. There will be many Catholics in the resurrection along with others who from the heart sought after God and hungered for truth and righteousness, and lived fully up to the light they knew.

Jesus said that the time of his return would be "just like the days of Noah".....so in what ways are we living in similar times?

Gen 6:5-8 says.... "The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD."

Today we see wickedness everywhere and as God lifts the lid on this satanically controlled world. People are not even prompted to act with kindness or compassion when they see someone in trouble. Like Jesus said, "love" would grow cold because people simply don't care about their neighbors anymore, (Matt 24:3-14)......those people who are living on the streets whilst the houses that they were evicted from remain empty and are often vandalized, are proof of the heartlessness that has invaded to world in these "critical times, hard to deal with". (2 Tim 3:1-5)

Noah 'preached righteousness' to the people (2 Pet 2:5) all the time he was building the ark, but not a soul responded......instead they mocked and ridiculed him. Noah's task was two fold....he was told how to save himself due to his obedience to the command of God....and also he gave the people opportunity to listen to his message of salvation so that if they refused to listen, he was not found guilty of not warning them of what God was going to do. (Ezek 3:17-18)
He not only responded to God's command, but actively put into practice what he was told to do....and it was not an easy task, possibly taking many decades to complete. And since he was childless when he received his assignment, and had three sons who married and helped him complete his commission, the people would have received a thorough witness about God's intentions and why he was doing it.

The world of today has also received a thorough witness concerning the time of Christ's return as judge of all the earth....so how many survived the flood? How many will survive the end of this current world system? Jesus answers....
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matt 7:13-14)

Again we see "few" being saved....the majority are traveling blissfully ignorant......on the wrong road.
Those "hungering and thirsting after righteousness" need to hear the good news about God's Kingdom, (Romans 10:13-15) but unfortunately their churches have little to no knowledge of it.....too busy expecting to go to heaven without having a clue as to why God created humans to live on earth, yet promises to take a chosen "few" to heaven.

When we see many churches gravitating over to side with the whole gender confusion movement, don't we have to ask how on earth they can possibly fit that stance into the Bible's clear direction regarding males and females and the roles played by each? (Eph 5:22-23)
We also see many church goers divorcing their spouses on very flimsy grounds, when there are only two things that dissolve a marriage in the scriptures....adultery or death. (Matt 19:4-6, 9) These issues crept in and took root gradually because of human imperfection and selfishness. All sin is based on those two things.

So the Bible's criteria on what we have to do to be saved is clear....and God will not alter his standards for anyone.

 

[Illuminator]

Hello everyone, I’ve now been kicked off three forums because of this subject. I’m a 100% believer in Jesus through scripture, and a nonbeliever in tradition? Why? Because for three years I have conducted very detailed investigations into scripture and proved to myself that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts. Why zero confidence in tradition? Because the investigations proved tradition to be false and 1 John 2:18-19, among other scripture, tells the church not to trust it. Will I be kicked off again or are there interested Christians and seekers of the truth willing to have a logical and facts based discussion on my results that counter “commonly accepted theology” or CAT? I keep running across Christians who can’t seem to realize that a person can 100% believe in scripture to be a dedicated follower of Jesus, while rejecting CAT As false teaching.

Blessings, jaz

I'm a non believer in your definition of tradition because it has nothing to do with what Catholics call "Sacred Tradition". You seem to oppose a phantom of your own creation. If it were not for the tradition of the episcopate, there would be no Bible in the first place. Yes, there are false traditions in the Bible that we are warned about, but there are also good traditions that we must obey. Lumping all traditions as bad is not biblical. Matthew wrote Matthew, Mark wrote Mark, Luke wrote Luke and John wrote John and why this is even questioned is anybody's guess.

 

[Brakelite]

Looks like YOU'VE been reading too many Jack Chick comic books.

Amd, God "protected" the bllodthirsty Elizateth I??
What color is the sky oin your qoeld??

The Vatican attempted to take the throne of England away from Lizzie by financing the Spanish Armada to overthrow Lizzie and re-establish a Catholic monarchy. On board were a horde of Catholic priests and assassin's all sailing with the blessing of the Pope and the prayers and masses of Rome. Fail.
As for Lizzie being bloodthirsty, that's the pope's fault. He excommunicated her, then released all former Catholics from their allegiance to the throne. This created heretics of Lizzie's friends, and traitors of her enemies.
English Catholic missionaries who had returned to England in order to incite rebellion were then hunted down and arrested. Yes, some were executed. Like Guy Fawkes and his friends a little later.

 

[Marymog]

Hello everyone, I’ve now been kicked off three forums because of this subject. I’m a 100% believer in Jesus through scripture, and a nonbeliever in tradition? Why? Because for three years I have conducted very detailed investigations into scripture and proved to myself that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts. Why zero confidence in tradition? Because the investigations proved tradition to be false and 1 John 2:18-19, among other scripture, tells the church not to trust it. Will I be kicked off again or are there interested Christians and seekers of the truth willing to have a logical and facts based discussion on my results that counter “commonly accepted theology” or CAT? I keep running across Christians who can’t seem to realize that a person can 100% believe in scripture to be a dedicated follower of Jesus, while rejecting CAT As false teaching.

Blessings, jaz

You use your interpretation of scripture to reject Scripture. Fascinating..........2 Thessalonians 2:15

2 Peter 3:16

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Vatican attempted to take the throne of England away from Lizzie by financing the Spanish Armada to overthrow Lizzie and re-establish a Catholic monarchy. On board were a horde of Catholic priests and assassin's all sailing with the blessing of the Pope and the prayers and masses of Rome. Fail.
As for Lizzie being bloodthirsty, that's the pope's fault. He excommunicated her, then released all former Catholics from their allegiance to the throne. This created heretics of Lizzie's friends, and traitors of her enemies.
English Catholic missionaries who had returned to England in order to incite rebellion were then hunted down and arrested. Yes, some were executed. Like Guy Fawkes and his friends a little later.

And you act like ALL of this happened in a vacuum.
Study your history . . .

Did you forget about tens of thousands of Catholics that were killed or starved to death or tortured by “Lizzie” and her Pop? Were you NOT aware that they executed Catholic clergy by being hanging or drawing and quartering them – men like Thomas More and Edmund Campion?

And YOU claim that the Pope is to blame for this evil because he excommunicated her??
Your hypocrisy is OFF the charts.

You WON’T be able to pass the buck so easily at your Judgement . . .

 

[Brakelite]

And you act like ALL of this happened in a vacuum.
Study your history . . .

Did you forget about tens of thousands of Catholics that were killed or starved to death or tortured by “Lizzie” and her Pop? Were you NOT aware that they executed Catholic clergy by being hanging or drawing and quartering them – men like Thomas More and Edmund Campion?

And YOU claim that the Pope is to blame for this evil because he excommunicated her??
Your hypocrisy is OFF the charts.

You WON’T be able to pass the buck so easily at your Judgement . . .

Do you have independent sources of these tens of thousands of victims? You and other Catholics speak of the so called Protestant inquisition... Yet offer nothing substantial to corroborate it. At least the Catholic inquisitions are established historically in secular and religious, including your own, , anals. And what were all these Catholics actually up to to deserve the ire of the royal household?.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you have independent sources of these tens of thousands of victims? You and other Catholics speak of the so called Protestant inquisition... Yet offer nothing substantial to corroborate it. At least the Catholic inquisitions are established historically in secular and religious, including your own, , anals.

Some sources, like the History Channel claim the estimates of Henry VIII’s executions number around 57,000.

And speaking of the Inquisitions – I’ve seen ridiculous claims on this forum of “tens of millions” were killed during the Spanish Inquisitions. This would have completely wiped out the entire population of Europe and several other countries.

The actual numbers are estimated at around Three-Four THOUSAND.

And what were all these Catholics actually up to to deserve the ire of the royal household?.

Hundreds of them were simply clergy who were butchered for refusing to recognize Henry VIII as supreme head of the Church.

In the massacre of Michelade, for example – eighteen Carthusian monks were drawn and quartered for the “crime”.

 

[Instant]

The early church fathers were not with Jesus nor the disciples so they were not eyewitnesses. In investigation work, we throw out their testimony as unreliable because it does not have a documented chain of custody. You may be right about Luke. Unfortunately we do not know much at all about Matthew, Mark, and Luke and this makes the claim of them as authors CATS.

I am trying to grasp exactly what you are objecting to that has gotten you in trouble with different message boards. Are you simply saying that you look only to the Bible for truth? I use only the Bible if I am seeking absolute truth, and my view is that if the Bible says something, and anything disagrees with it, the Bible is right, but that does not mean I will not consider what others say. God called ministers for a reason. If we are not to even consider what anyone says, why have teachers? Still, I measure everything by the Bible.

 

[Marymog]

The Vatican attempted to take the throne of England away from Lizzie by financing the Spanish Armada to overthrow Lizzie and re-establish a Catholic monarchy. On board were a horde of Catholic priests and assassin's all sailing with the blessing of the Pope and the prayers and masses of Rome. Fail.
As for Lizzie being bloodthirsty, that's the pope's fault. He excommunicated her, then released all former Catholics from their allegiance to the throne. This created heretics of Lizzie's friends, and traitors of her enemies.
English Catholic missionaries who had returned to England in order to incite rebellion were then hunted down and arrested. Yes, some were executed. Like Guy Fawkes and his friends a little later.

You crack me up brakelite. Your twisting of history is fascinating

 

[Brakelite]

You crack me up brakelite. Your twisting of history is fascinating

Care to be more specific? I'm so happy you are being so thoroughly entertained by my musings.

 

[Illuminator]

You crack me up brakelite. Your twisting of history is fascinating

Accuse, accuse, accuse. It's the religion of a sick mind
not to mention who the Ultimate Accuser is. Religious sickness is what happens to people who get duped by occultic channeling, the foundation of the false prophecies of E.G white. All history is interpreted through that lens and Brokelite is a slave to it. why the admins grant him full immunity from any rule or guideline isn't really puzzling. The welcoming of Catholics in Cyb is a façade.

 

[Marymog]

Care to be more specific? I'm so happy you are being so thoroughly entertained by my musings.

"Lizzie" was just sitting in her castle, minding her own business, knitting a sweater for herself and then all of a sudden Spain sent an armada to attack her country.....for no reason? Nothing happened BEFORE the invading force was sent? And that invading force had a "horde of Catholic priests"????????????? You you presented wasn't a "musing". It was a flat out lie..........

 

[Hobie]

Jesus told us that he was here to fulfill the law and the law was the commandments, so since I follow Jesus I also try to follow the commandments.

Amen, my brother. Many try to say they no longer apply, but Christ made it clear that they do.