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bbyrd009
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- Nov 30, 2016
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i guess Tamar had a "coat of many colors" too? i had a pretty decent discussion on its likely meaning, but it has gotten away from me
Johann
Well-Known Member
...and now I'm crying Taken, literally...nothing to do with emotions, yet that too.
They say: Men don't cry...well, this Afrikaner boerseun is doing just that.
Shalom
J.
Last edited:
Johann
Well-Known Member
Tamar & Her Coat of Many Colors
Yes, you read that right. Of course you have heard of Joseph’s colorful coat, but did you know that there is another person in the Bible who wore one? There are some amazing connections and insights that emerge when we take Joseph’s and Tamar’s stories and analyze them together.
LESSON NOTES
CLICK to Print Notes
Genesis 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than any other of his sons because he was the son of his old age. And he made him a coat of many colors.
כתנת פסים (ke’tonet passim)
2 Samuel 13:18 Now [Tamar] was wearing a coat of many colors, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her.
JOSEPH / TAMAR
(Genesis 37-50) / (2 Samuel 13)
Ketonet passim / Ketonet passim
Handsome (39:6) / Beautiful (1)
Betrayed by Brothers (37.28) / Betrayed by Brother (6-15)
Object of Lust (39:7) / Object of Lust (2)
“Lie with me!” (39:7) / “Lie with me!” (11)
Father Grieves (37:34) / Father Grieves (31)
Father believes his son is dead (37:33) / Father believes all his sons are dead (30)
“He mourned his son” (37:34) / “He mourned his son” (37)
ויתאבל על בנו (v’yitabel al bino)2x in Bible
JOSEPH(Gen. 37) & The Two Tamars:
TAMAR #1 + TAMAR #2
(Gen. 38) + (2 Sam. 13)
The meaning of Tamar [תמר] is ‘the end of bitterness’. (Magid of Mezeritch – 1704-1772)
1 Chronicles 3:1 … Now these were the sons of David who were born to him in Hebron…
1 Chronicles 3:9 All these were David’s sons, besides the sons of the concubines, and Tamar was their sister.
REFERENCES:
2 Samuel 13:10-19 Then Amnon said to Tamar, “Bring the food into the chamber, that I may eat from your hand.” And Tamar took the cakes she had made and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother. 11But when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her and said to her, “Come, lie with me, my sister.” 12 She answered him, “No, my brother, do not violate me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous thing. 13 As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.” 14But he would not listen to her, and being stronger than she, he violated her and lay with her. 15 Then Amnon hated her with very great hatred, so that the hatred with which he hated her was greater than the love with which he had loved her. And Amnon said to her, “Get up! Go!” 16 But she said to him, “No, my brother, for this wrong in sending me away is greater than the other that you did to me.” But he would not listen to her. 17 He called the young man who served him and said, “Put this woman out of my presence and bolt the door after her.” 18 Now she was wearing a long robe with sleeves, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. 19 And Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the long robe that she wore. And she laid her hand on her head and went away, crying aloud as she went.
Exodus 15:27 Then they came to Elim, where there were twelve springs of water and seventy palm trees [תמר,tamar], and they encamped there by the water.
Deuteronomy 34:3 … the Negeb, and the Plain, that is, the Valley of Jericho the city of palm [תמר, tamar], as far as Zoar.
Judges 4:4-5 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm [תמר, tamar] of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Psalm 92:12 The righteous flourish like the palm tree [תמר, tamar] and grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Matthew 1:3 ...and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram…
Tamar & Her Coat of Many Colors – Torah Today
torahtodayministries.org
Yes, the scarlet thread, could make for an interesting discussion.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Words of chochmah/ wisdom and understanding, just what I needed to hear today from you and our sisters in Christ.@Johann
Rita, its what humans DO...caring for, tending to something other than themselves. Sometimes it is consuming, exhausting, frustrating....but when that caring FOR an other “something”....child, parent, spouse, pet, livestock, “home”... changes, is no longer THERE TO care for....the VOID is huge....and sways back and forth from Relief to Sorrow...like a phenomenal up and down roller coaster, that from day to day affects our Emotions.
AND THAT emotional swing ... is personally comforted BY the awesome gift of the LORDS Spiritual Comfort and your living loving family and friends...
Johann...especially to you...you are expressing your LOSS, sorrow...You are NOT empty! And everywhere you see your wife IS unto you, A Joyful Memory, EMBRACE it with Joy.
No doubt we are SAD at OUR OWN losses....YET, the fact IS, our loss, IS the Lords Gain. That which we enjoyed, needed...The Lord needs them more.
God Bless you both Rita and Johann.
Glory to God,
Taken
I was told to "let go" of my wife
J.
Holding your heart up to God for his blessed assurance.Ah, dear @Taken...those white robes!
A Robe of Restoration
"So Pharaoh said to Joseph, 'I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt.'
Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph’s finger.
He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck."
- Genesis 41:41-42
The heart of God the Father is one of restoration. He walks with us and fulfills the dreams and destiny He ordained for us even from all eternity.
There are many aspects of Joseph’s life that have blessed and encouraged the body of Christ. The robe that Joseph received from his father when he was a young man is a great example. In Genesis 37:3, we read, “Now Israel loved Joseph more than any of his other sons, because he had been born to him in his old age; and he made a richly ornamented robe for him.”
This robe is described in the Amplified Bible as (a [distinctive] long tunic with sleeves). It was a very special garment that signified his father’s love and favor, as well as the destiny he would one day fulfill. For Joseph, it would be a daily reminder that he was covered in his father’s love.
Every time Satan looked at Joseph, he saw the robe, which constantly reminded him of his own inability to destroy the ultimate plans and purposes that God had for Joseph.
Because of that hate, Satan incited Joseph’s brothers to jealousy: “So when Joseph came to his brothers, they stripped him of his robe—the richly ornamented robe he was wearing” (Gen. 37:23). Although his brothers stripped Joseph of his physical robe, what it symbolized could not be stripped away. Even as Joseph entered into captivity without his richly ornamented robe, the covering of God’s love, favor and purpose remained over him.
Joseph walked through some very difficult places, and he must have struggled quite a bit to understand God’s plan for him in the midst of his circumstances. For a season, the Enemy took what had symbolized so much to him—the robe—out of his sight, and yet, his father’s love never changed. More importantly, God’s favor followed him wherever he went, and after 13 years of captivity, full restoration came, and he finally experienced the fulfillment of his destiny.
When Joseph was dressed in robes of fine linen, he had suddenly become the second-most powerful and honored man in all of Egypt. The robe of restoration was finally his!
Scripture also speaks of another robe, a robe that was provided at a great price—the life of a Father’s only Son—covering all who accept it as a gift. In Isaiah 61:10, we read, “I delight greatly in the Lord; my soul rejoices in my God, for he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of his righteousness.”
These garments signify in part, God’s provision, favor, healing and deliverance by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. All of this flows from His incredible love.
In Christ, we are clothed in garments of salvation and a robe of righteousness. The Enemy desperately wants to keep us from “seeing” the robe of Christ’s righteousness that covers us, and so he sends us accusations and condemnation to try and keep us from seeing our inheritance in Christ.
The Father wants to open our eyes to see who we truly are: joint-heirs with Christ, fully restored to the position of sons and daughters, and made worthy through the blood of the Lamb. When we “see” ourselves clothed in Christ’s righteousness, we will be able to rest in His love and His favor, and fulfill our God-given destiny!
A robe of restoration
By Debra Neybert, Training Specialist "So Pharaoh said to Joseph, 'I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt.'Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph’s finger. He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck." - Ge...www.heartbeatinternational.org
Don't know if you agree with this, but lately, the last couple of months, I am not sure re my salvation.
Being blunt with you Taken, sitting alone day in and day out, the mind/nous the battlefield.
I hope you understand what I am trying to convey to you.
J.
Stay strong, God's got you !
This is what we SHOULD be doing.@Johann
Rita, its what humans DO...caring for, tending to something other than themselves. Sometimes it is consuming, exhausting, frustrating....but when that caring FOR an other “something”....child, parent, spouse, pet, livestock, “home”... changes, is no longer THERE TO care for....the VOID is huge....and sways back and forth from Relief to Sorrow...like a phenomenal up and down roller coaster, that from day to day affects our Emotions.
AND THAT emotional swing ... is personally comforted BY the awesome gift of the LORDS Spiritual Comfort and your living loving family and friends...
Johann...especially to you...you are expressing your LOSS, sorrow...You are NOT empty! And everywhere you see your wife IS unto you, A Joyful Memory, EMBRACE it with Joy.
No doubt we are SAD at OUR OWN losses....YET, the fact IS, our loss, IS the Lords Gain. That which we enjoyed, needed...The Lord needs them more.
God Bless you both Rita and Johann.
Glory to God,
Taken
Praying His Spirit will up-lift, edify & unite us. We must not be scattered & estranged with arguments and division !
Please Sweet Holy Spirit flow through this site. Touch the hurt ,bind up the
broken-hearted., bring healing to our souls & spirits, help us hold tightly to the truth ,; fully armoured having one another's backs. Unite us in YOUR LOVE; for you are the life, the truth & the way....... Amen.
This may seem strange to say...But “good for you”.
And the reason I say “strange”, is because I “experienced” several years of time exposed to a chemical... “over a period of a decade”...when I could neither produce tears...of sadness or joy!
I had had a chemical exposure that affected my eyes. Extremely dry, even the slightest wind, or fan was excruciating. Laughing, Joyful, Sadness...not a tear.
Then on the day (a decade had passed) I received news of my favorite uncles passing, and the tears flowed...not again, till 2 years later, my moms passing...
and there after...tears of sadness, joy, laughing, my circumstances personally, an others circumstances, a touching moment in a movie...a thoughtful gift from an other....The tear ducts in full, (more than before) operation.
And strangely comforting. When that ability was temporarily halted...it was aside from painful, also very frustrating.
So “literally”, through your tears, EMBRACE the joy of your “personal” memories with your wife.
And BTW...I had the conversation recently with some others...about “infants”...we hear their cry...we say they are crying...but they do not “yet” produce “tears”... just one of those little tid-bits
God Bless,
Taken
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Something like this.....
Rom 8:26 So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.
Rom 8:27 And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God's will. [Psa_139:1-2]
AMP
It is a good day, Today.
God bless
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Tamar & Her Coat of Many Colors
Yes, you read that right. Of course you have heard of Joseph’s colorful coat, but did you know that there is another person in the Bible who wore one? There are some amazing connections and insights that emerge when we take Joseph’s and Tamar’s stories and analyze them together.
LESSON NOTES
CLICK to Print Notes
Genesis 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than any other of his sons because he was the son of his old age. And he made him a coat of many colors.
כתנת פסים (ke’tonet passim)
2 Samuel 13:18 Now [Tamar] was wearing a coat of many colors, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her.
JOSEPH / TAMAR
(Genesis 37-50) / (2 Samuel 13)
Ketonet passim / Ketonet passim
Handsome (39:6) / Beautiful (1)
Betrayed by Brothers (37.28) / Betrayed by Brother (6-15)
Object of Lust (39:7) / Object of Lust (2)
“Lie with me!” (39:7) / “Lie with me!” (11)
Father Grieves (37:34) / Father Grieves (31)
Father believes his son is dead (37:33) / Father believes all his sons are dead (30)
“He mourned his son” (37:34) / “He mourned his son” (37)
ויתאבל על בנו (v’yitabel al bino)2x in Bible
JOSEPH(Gen. 37) & The Two Tamars:
TAMAR #1 + TAMAR #2
(Gen. 38) + (2 Sam. 13)
The meaning of Tamar [תמר] is ‘the end of bitterness’. (Magid of Mezeritch – 1704-1772)
1 Chronicles 3:1 … Now these were the sons of David who were born to him in Hebron…
1 Chronicles 3:9 All these were David’s sons, besides the sons of the concubines, and Tamar was their sister.
REFERENCES:
2 Samuel 13:10-19 Then Amnon said to Tamar, “Bring the food into the chamber, that I may eat from your hand.” And Tamar took the cakes she had made and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother. 11But when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her and said to her, “Come, lie with me, my sister.” 12 She answered him, “No, my brother, do not violate me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous thing. 13 As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.” 14But he would not listen to her, and being stronger than she, he violated her and lay with her. 15 Then Amnon hated her with very great hatred, so that the hatred with which he hated her was greater than the love with which he had loved her. And Amnon said to her, “Get up! Go!” 16 But she said to him, “No, my brother, for this wrong in sending me away is greater than the other that you did to me.” But he would not listen to her. 17 He called the young man who served him and said, “Put this woman out of my presence and bolt the door after her.” 18 Now she was wearing a long robe with sleeves, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. 19 And Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the long robe that she wore. And she laid her hand on her head and went away, crying aloud as she went.
Exodus 15:27 Then they came to Elim, where there were twelve springs of water and seventy palm trees [תמר,tamar], and they encamped there by the water.
Deuteronomy 34:3 … the Negeb, and the Plain, that is, the Valley of Jericho the city of palm [תמר, tamar], as far as Zoar.
Judges 4:4-5 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm [תמר, tamar] of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Psalm 92:12 The righteous flourish like the palm tree [תמר, tamar] and grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Matthew 1:3 ...and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram…
Tamar & Her Coat of Many Colors – Torah Today
Yes, the scarlet thread, could make for an interesting discussion.
J.
I can not say the context of who told you that or what they meant...to forget her, to get rid of every item of hers, of every reminder....IDK.
But I say, DO NOT FORGET, keep the memories, keep a trinket, photos, even visit a place that was special to both of you....it is ONE MORE THING to Thank God for you having had AND remember.
You KNOW...God Remembers every one WHO is “with” Him IN Spirit, be they IN Heaven, ON the Earth, IN the Earth....and those He shall FORGET, were and shall never be with Him.
And You KNOW...God IS our example.
Yes, you can “let go” of your wife’s “physical” presence....(and again do not know exactly if that is what others meant)....but Hold on to every joyful memory...and Be thankful and blessed for those joyful memories.
God Bless,
Taken
Absolutely.I can not say the context of who told you that or what they meant...to forget her, to get rid of every item of hers, of every reminder....IDK.
But I say, DO NOT FORGET, keep the memories, keep a trinket, photos, even visit a place that was special to both of you....it is ONE MORE THING to Thank God for you having had AND remember.
You KNOW...God Remembers every one WHO is “with” Him IN Spirit, be they IN Heaven, ON the Earth, IN the Earth....and those He shall FORGET, were and shall never be with Him.
And You KNOW...God IS our example.
Yes, you can “let go” of your wife’s “physical” presence....(and again do not know exactly if that is what others meant)....but Hold on to every joyful memory...and Be thankful and blessed for those joyful memories.
God Bless,
Taken
Thankfully our memories are the one thing we can still hold, to REMEMBER our loved ones.
Every blessing must be cherished and refreshed to keep that one close . Yes grief is painful but the healing leaves the sweet memories in the fore-front of our love.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what I was told, to let go of her physical presence, can't do that Taken, when a leg is amputated, the person can still "feel" the leg.
But thank you for the words of encouragement.
J.
How phenomenal and awesome...hundreds even thousands miles apart, (and this world desperately trying to effect gloom, chaos, doubt)....yet the same Spirit of God shinning Bright in those WITH Him.
I’m in agreement....what a beautiful way to start this day!!
So adding... now just slightly above freezing, frost on the ground, don’t particularly want to do works outside, but...animals require tending...and dog, has no doggy buddies, has acres to walk and run and play...but needs his human buddies to go with him....!! And this past spring have had a baby fawn wandering about the larger field. It’s mom has been absent more often and it comes nearer and nearer to the goats, the dog and us. Pretty interesting.
I’m in agreement....what a beautiful way to start this day!!
So adding... now just slightly above freezing, frost on the ground, don’t particularly want to do works outside, but...animals require tending...and dog, has no doggy buddies, has acres to walk and run and play...but needs his human buddies to go with him....!! And this past spring have had a baby fawn wandering about the larger field. It’s mom has been absent more often and it comes nearer and nearer to the goats, the dog and us. Pretty interesting.
That’s the emotional tie.
Can you remember....? Can you feel...? Can you talk to...? Of course.
Can you physically see? No, but you can Physically remember and See the memory.
Same as I can not Physically see God, nor physically see my mom...but yet I can see her puttering in the kitchen, laughing, that look of oops the car is in the ditch...now what are we going to do...and not a weird thing to do when thinking of her, to spray the perfume she wore, which adds a pleasant smell memory to my sight memory of her.
God Bless,
Taken
Johann
Well-Known Member
Pretty interesting...
The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
To God be the doxa/glory
J.
The wind, LIKE GOD, can not SEE it, but can see it’s effects!
Been all along teaching our dog, human terms. Things he can see...and challenging has been teaching him WIND. I don’t bother with a light breeze, but rather a sure enough WIND. I think he is getting it. He goes to the door, sits, wants to go out. If I look at him and say RAIN, he looks at me like never mind and moves away from the door. If I say SUNSHINE, his ear perk up like okay, come open the door....
Anyway...Yes to your WIND observation and my little tidbit...
God Bless,
Taken
Johann
Well-Known Member
God in Christ, through the Spirit is using you mightily, you have a way of painting a flower with words, to the blind, a dorean, gift, not compromising one iota on the Scriptures.
Receive this blessing
The Lord bless you and watch, guard, and keep you;
The Lord make His face to shine upon and enlighten you and be gracious (kind, merciful, and giving favor) to you;
The Lord lift up His [approving] countenance upon you and give you peace (tranquility of heart and life continually).
ְבָרֶכְךָ֥ יְהוָ֖ה וְיִשְׁמְרֶֽךָ׃ ס
יָאֵ֨ר יְהוָ֧ה ׀ פָּנָ֛יו אֵלֶ֖יךָ וִֽיחֻנֶּֽךָּ׃ ס
יִשָּׂ֨א יְהוָ֤ה ׀ פָּנָיו֙ אֵלֶ֔יךָ וְיָשֵׂ֥ם לְךָ֖ שָׁלֹֽום׃ ס
Eph 3:17 May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,
Eph 3:18 That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God's devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];
Eph 3:19 [That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!
Eph 3:20 Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]--
Eph 3:21 To Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
AMP
Love this Amplified version.
To our Father and Christ Jesus be our highest eulogy and adoration, unceasingly.
God bless Taken
J.
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