Two sets of a thousand years.

[Davy]

I don't agree with the personal remarks about Marty. He is pretty studied and doctrinally-orthodox, as well. But I agree with your characterization of our Millennial/Kingdom hope.

Agreeing with the Word of God is what matters, not whether someone agrees or disagrees with me.

 

[Mr E]

The reason that there is so much controversy and misunderstanding over Revelation chapter 20 is that most Christians don't understand that there are two sets of a thousand years one the reigning and one the binding. This is shown in Revelation chapter 20.

The binding ends in verse 7 when satan is released for his short season before he is cast into the lake of fire.

The reigning ends at the end of our world after satan is cast into the lake of fire as shown in verse 5 when the rest of the dead stand before the throne.

The key to understanding this is to realize that Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.

The bigger question revolves around the timing of these events, not the duration of them.

When do you think Satan is/was bound? A future event, or past? Did the Christ not already descend with the keys and bind the dragon, locking and sealing the gate to the abyss? He did. And you can read about it, not in Rev 20, but beginning in Rev 10... in great detail in Rev 12.

When did the reign of Christ begin?

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

And this reign began when the spirit descended. If you miss the basic principles, you miss much. Satan is loosed, when the spirit descends. They work in conjunction, in competition, in concert.

 

[ScottA]

Your response has not changed my position on your posts at all. Something is off with your understanding on the time frame of the end time events.

Obviously. And yet there is no time with God, no shadow of turning.

 

[Marty fox]

The bigger question revolves around the timing of these events, not the duration of them.

When do you think Satan is/was bound? A future event, or past? Did the Christ not already descend with the keys and bind the dragon, locking and sealing the gate to the abyss? He did. And you can read about it, not in Rev 20, but beginning in Rev 10... in great detail in Rev 12.

When did the reign of Christ begin?

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

And this reign began when the spirit descended. If you miss the basic principles, you miss much. Satan is loosed, when the spirit descends. They work in conjunction, in competition, in concert.

Yes it is a current reality

 

[Marty fox]

Hi Marty,

The two references to a thousand year period actually occur at the same time. The reign of Christ began when all power and authority in heaven and earth were given to Him 2,000+ years ago. Which is also when Satan was bound regarding Israel because "It is finished" for that house (that fold} which Jesus had initially come for, but also the time Satan is loosed for a short season upon the other fold of the Gentiles. All of which is not actually a thousand years (or a year with God), but is Spirit-speak for the fulness thereof. A thousand is a derivative or multiple of 10 which is a grand indication of fulness or completeness.

The mistake that is commonly made, is to assume that the thousand years is "future" while the scriptures clearly state that Jesus was given all power and authority 2,000+ years ago.

Yes both thousand years started at the cross but scripture shows that the binding ends before the reigning

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't say that there is a thousand years after satan is released I said that the thousand year reign carries on after satan is released from his binding.

Is that not the same thing? If the thousand years continues, and your title is two sets of thousand, then there are a thousand years after the release.

You did not say two sets of 500 years, and Satan is released and the 500 years continues. In your assertion, the release of Satan and what happens after is one of the 1,000 year sets, no?

You never mentioned they were offset by some "credible" reason. Nor gave a reason that showed Satan was bound an x amount of years before, and then the reign stopped an x amount of years equal to the first amount.

For instance if Satan was bound 3.5 years before the Cross, then the reign of Christ stops 3.5 years after Satan is released.

But Christ has not been reigning for a fixed amount of time, nor an indefinite amount of time. It is an oxymoron to say indefinite time is fixed, even in symbolism.

The Millennium reign is 1,000 years, no more, and no less.

 

[Jay Ross]

Obviously. And yet there is no time with God, no shadow of turning.

ScottA, if we are made in the image of God and we are subject to time in what we do, then how can you imply that with time, it is not applicable to God. Why do we consider that a day within God's timeframe is the same as ≈1,000 years within man's timeframe. This concept of how the time frames of man and God are aligned is found twice within scripture once in the Book of Psalm and the second time in the letters of Peter.

In the limit of the radius approaching infinity, the circumference of the circle approaches a straight line is technically correct but logically wrong. It seems to me that your approach to your understanding of God is established in the same manner.

 

[Marty fox]

Is that not the same thing? If the thousand years continues, and your title is two sets of thousand, then there are a thousand years after the release.

You did not say two sets of 500 years, and Satan is released and the 500 years continues. In your assertion, the release of Satan and what happens after is one of the 1,000 year sets, no?

You never mentioned they were offset by some "credible" reason. Nor gave a reason that showed Satan was bound an x amount of years before, and then the reign stopped an x amount of years equal to the first amount.

For instance if Satan was bound 3.5 years before the Cross, then the reign of Christ stops 3.5 years after Satan is released.

But Christ has not been reigning for a fixed amount of time, nor an indefinite amount of time. It is an oxymoron to say indefinite time is fixed, even in symbolism.

The Millennium reign is 1,000 years, no more, and no less.

I really don’t understand what you are saying but i will clarify what I’m saying

There are two sets of a thousand years shown in Revelation chapter 20 one the binding and one the reigning

They started at the same time at the cross and resurrection. The binding ends when satan is released and the reigning ends at the end of our world as rev chapter 20 shows

Satan is bound because Jesus reigns but Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God

 

[ScottA]

Yes both thousand years started at the cross but scripture shows that the binding ends before the reigning

This is indeed where it gets hard to follow, but only because it is given in the terms of this world while the events are not of this world. The answer to this is even more confused as it is also expressed from the heavenly side of the equation, as if the terms of this world do apply to the kingdom of heaven, when they do not. Nonetheless, it is also written of that same time, that "there was silence in heaven for half an hour." However, the term rather means that the heavens were divided.

Thus, the short time spoken of Satan being released from his prison is not those thousand years also spoken of, but of a time (forty days time in this world only) between the cross and the beginning of the return of Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit. Which by the chronology of this world, would seem to be the beginning of the thousand years, but is not--just as we according to the times of this world seem to enter into Christ "each in our own order" but are according to God already in Him and "were crucified with Him." Which is then also state as if it were a time of silence in heaven (as a parable for an elementary understanding), wherein there is no time, but is also when heaven is divided as the earth is also divided, as light is divided from darkness.

Such is the illusion of time.

Again, what is described is merely time-speak regarding the timeless reality of God--not easily comprehended by time-dwelling creatures during a twilight time of not being fully decreased and God being fully increased unto perfection in Him.

 

[Marty fox]

This is indeed where it gets hard to follow, but only because it is given in the terms of this world while the events are not of this world. The answer to this is even more confused as it is also expressed from the heavenly side of the equation, as if the terms of this world do apply to the kingdom of heaven, when they do not. Nonetheless, it is also written of that same time, that "there was silence in heaven for half an hour." However, the term rather means that the heavens were divided.

Thus, the short time spoken of Satan being released from his prison is not those thousand years also spoken of, but of a time (forty days time in this world only) between the cross and the beginning of the return of Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit. Which by the chronology of this world, would seem to be the beginning of the thousand years, but is not--just as we according to the times of this world seem to enter into Christ "each in our own order" but are according to God already in Him and "were crucified with Him." Which is then also state as if it were a time of silence in heaven (as a parable for an elementary understanding), wherein there is no time, but is also when heaven is divided as the earth is also divided, as light is divided from darkness.

Such is the illusion of time.

Again, what is described is merely time-speak regarding the timeless reality of God--not easily comprehended by time-dwelling creatures during a twilight time of not being fully decreased and God being fully increased unto perfection in Him.

To clarify the reigning began at the beginning of the church age but personally starts for us individually when we get saved then satan is bound by deceiving us if we truly accept the gospel

 

[ScottA]

ScottA, if we are made in the image of God and we are subject to time in what we do, then how can you imply that with time, it is not applicable to God. Why do we consider that a day within God's timeframe is the same as ≈1,000 years within man's timeframe. This concept of how the time frames of man and God are aligned is found twice within scripture once in the Book of Psalm and the second time in the letters of Peter.

In the limit of the radius approaching infinity, the circumference of the circle approaches a straight line is technically correct but logically wrong. It seems to me that your approach to your understanding of God is established in the same manner.

The answer comes at the end: The book of Revelation is a summary regarding all the "things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this." That is, everything from the beginning to the end of time. The point being, that all of time and creation is for the purpose of revelation--revealing God and all truth to mankind "but each one in his own order."

Within the scriptures then, it is revealed that when God began this great revelation, He said "Let there be light; and there was light." Later Jesus revealed further, saying, "I am the light of the world." Then at the end it is revealed that the whole matter of revelation is "the Revelation of Jesus Christ." 1-2-3, showing by the light of Jesus Christ, as if cast through a prism, revealing God over the created media of time, time that is otherwise passing away.

That is what time is--a created thing for revelation, that is otherwise passing away.

Meanwhile, reality does not actually reside within this creation, but with God. And because these times of revelations are coming to an end, it is now being revealed for what it really is, just as it was foretold to come: As "the time of the sounding of the seventh angel." Thus began the times which John the Baptist declared, saying, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

 

[Timtofly]

Yes both thousand years started at the cross but scripture shows that the binding ends before the reigning

Well, the reigning never ends. Reigning is eternal. The reason why the reign was in conjunction with the binding is because Satan's binding was limited to a thousand years, not the reigning. This verse does not read:

"and they lived and reigned with Christ "until the thousand years were finished"."

Revelation 20:4

"and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

That means the reigning keeps on going, after the 1,000 years, not limited to that time.

In fact after the thousand years, the rest of the dead could now live and reign with Christ. That does not mean they will. It just means they have to wait a thousand years to do so.

 

[Timtofly]

I really don’t understand what you are saying but i will clarify what I’m saying

There are two sets of a thousand years shown in Revelation chapter 20 one the binding and one the reigning

They started at the same time at the cross and resurrection. The binding ends when satan is released and the reigning ends at the end of our world as rev chapter 20 shows

Satan is bound because Jesus reigns but Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God

Why do you have the reigning limited to a set time, then call that set/fixed time indefinite?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I didn't say that there is a thousand years after satan is released I said that the thousand year reign carries on after satan is released from his binding.

In verse 7 satan is released he then gathers him people is then defeated and cast into the lake of fire.

Verse 5 points to verse 11 when the rest of the dead are raised to stand before the judgment throne which after satans defeat and the end of our world

Well my bad. Please define when these two one thousand year time frames happen then.

 

[rwb]

I really don’t understand what you are saying but i will clarify what I’m saying

There are two sets of a thousand years shown in Revelation chapter 20 one the binding and one the reigning

They started at the same time at the cross and resurrection. The binding ends when satan is released and the reigning ends at the end of our world as rev chapter 20 shows

Satan is bound because Jesus reigns but Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God

Marty, I really don't see what you do. There is only a/the thousand years during which time Satan is bound, the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, and when men shall believe the Gospel and reign with Christ, and men are martyred for their faith having already lived and reigned with Christ. All during this TIME likened to a/the thousand years. These thousand years of symbolic time began with the first advent of Christ and will end when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7).

 

[Marty fox]

Well, the reigning never ends. Reigning is eternal. The reason why the reign was in conjunction with the binding is because Satan's binding was limited to a thousand years, not the reigning. This verse does not read:

"and they lived and reigned with Christ "until the thousand years were finished"."

Revelation 20:4

"and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

That means the reigning keeps on going, after the 1,000 years, not limited to that time.

In fact after the thousand years, the rest of the dead could now live and reign with Christ. That does not mean they will. It just means they have to wait a thousand years to do so.

So you agree that the thousand years aren’t literally a thousand years?

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, I really don't see what you do. There is only a/the thousand years during which time Satan is bound, the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, and when men shall believe the Gospel and reign with Christ, and men are martyred for their faith having already lived and reigned with Christ. All during this TIME likened to a/the thousand years. These thousand years of symbolic time began with the first advent of Christ and will end when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7).

I kind of agree with what you said here except for revelation 20:7 shows that the binding ends before the end of the world and the reigning carries on until the end of our world as Rev 20:5 and 11-12 shows us

 

[Marty fox]

Well my bad. Please define when these two one thousand year time frames happen then.

They started at the beginning of the church age the binding ends when satan is released and the reigning ends at the end of our world

 

[Christian Gedge]

I kind of agree with what you said here except for revelation 20:7 shows that the binding ends before the end of the world and the reigning carries on until the end of our world as Rev 20:5 and 11-12 shows us

I don’t see a problem with the distinction that you’re stressing. The thousand years represents a very long period; the short time represents a very short period. The short period comes after the long period.

 

[rwb]

I kind of agree with what you said here except for revelation 20:7 shows that the binding ends before the end of the world and the reigning carries on until the end of our world as Rev 20:5 and 11-12 shows us

Marty, a thousand years that symbolizes time given the Church to proclaim the Gospel, is finished when the thousand years expire. Satan is released when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. It's true time for building and time for Satan's binding comes to an end when the thousand years end. But after the time given this Gospel age for building the Kingdom, Satan still has a "little season" to gather together Gog & Magog (antichrists & antichristians) from throughout the earth, surround the Christians still alive during his little season and hoping to destroy them. Satan desires to prevent the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven from being complete by destroying the Church before the last Gentile to be saved comes into the Kingdom of God through the Gospel. But instead of destroying the Church, every believer is bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Then fire shall come down from God out of heaven to devour them all, and the devil is cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:15-19 (KJV) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.