Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[covenantee]

How was the covenant confirmed or strengthened? Hint:

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The covenant or testament is like an inheritance. It awaits Christ, the prince, to die in order for covenant to become a force. It is an everlasting covenant Messiah the Prince and His people, Israel. Not 7 years peace treaty.

I completely concur. So the Darby/Scofield/Jesuit crowd, which espouses number 2 claiming that the Covenant Confirmer is a future Antichrist, is at blasphemous variance with unequivocal Scripture. The Covenant was Confirmed at Calvary.

Couldn't be more plain.

Note that the Covenant is with the Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved by faith in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[covenantee]

As you know I have a problem with this while knowing it is part of Preterism doctrines. When the Jews asked for a "SIGN" and in response to this Christ answered, "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up." Not the cross you say? Christ was talking about God's judgment, an abomination that would leave the Temple and all those buildings of Jerusalem desolate SPIRITUALLY! That was the fulfillment of Matthew 24:1-2. LIKEWISE, the end times mirroring this abomination and desolation, when the NEW TESTAMENT Temple (2nd Thessalonians 2) and the Holy Place would again be abominable, and this is when it would fall, and the believers are to flee from the midst of Judaea. SPIRITUALLY. Try and stay focused and keep things accurate.

1. The Temple of Matthew 24 is a prophecy of the Temple near the end of the world/age that would have abomination stand it in. Church, not 70AD.

2. The Old Testament Temple (that the literal temple symbolized) was the congregation that fell at the cross. SPIRITUALLY. And was rebuilt in Christ, Him being the cornerstone of that Temple re-building. AND that's why the veil of the Holy Temple was rent/torn from "Top to bottom" the second that Christ died. It signified the fall of the Old Testament Temple, which would be rebuilt in Christ's resurrection. It already happened long before 70AD!

So who were the armies in Luke 21:20?

Note that the Christian believers actually literally fled from Judaea prior to 70 AD, in literal fulfillment of Matthew 24:16 (and Luke 21:21 and Mark 13:14). They understood and heeded Christ's warning literally, not spiritually.

And literally survived.

 

[Davy]

So who were the armies in Luke 21:20?

Note that the Christian believers actually literally fled from Judaea prior to 70 AD, in literal fulfillment of Matthew 24:16 (and Luke 21:21 and Mark 13:14). They understood and heeded Christ's warning literally, not spiritually.

And literally survived.

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

Luke 21:20 is not... about the "abomination of desolation" event. It is about the Isaiah 61:2 event which Jesus did not read, closing the Book of Isaiah before He got to it, per Luke 4...

Isa 61:1-2
61 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

Everything in purple above Jesus read in the temple at the start of His Ministry. He stopped at that part in red, and closed the Book. It's because that "day of vengeance of our God..." is for His future return.

Just as with most things in this life, paying attention is one of our worse problems. Doing that in God's Word is no different. Just because the flee Judea idea is mentioned there, many simply assign that to the time of the "abomination of desolation" being setup, which actually happens to start the time of "great tribulation" of 1260 days. The day of vengeance is about the very last day, which is the end of the "great tribulation" with Jesus' coming.

And the armies...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV

 

[covenantee]

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

Luke 21:20 is not... about the "abomination of desolation" event. It is about the Isaiah 61:2 event which Jesus did not read, closing the Book of Isaiah before He got to it, per Luke 4...

Isa 61:1-2
61 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

Everything in purple above Jesus read in the temple at the start of His Ministry. He stopped at that part in red, and closed the Book. It's because that "day of vengeance of our God..." is for His future return.

Just as with most things in this life, paying attention is one of our worse problems. Doing that in God's Word is no different. Just because the flee Judea idea is mentioned there, many simply assign that to the time of the "abomination of desolation" being setup, which actually happens to start the time of "great tribulation" of 1260 days. The day of vengeance is about the very last day, which is the end of the "great tribulation" with Jesus' coming.

And the armies...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV

Luke 21:20 is the synoptic counterpart to Matthew 24:15 inspired by the Holy Spirit to enable the identification of the abomination of desolation, for those who compare Scripture to Scripture and recognize that Scripture interprets Scripture.

The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies.

These two Scriptures also corroborate Daniel 9:26-27.

And the Judaean Christians literally fled (Matthew 24:16; Luke 21:21), and literally survived, prior to 70 AD.

Thankfully, none of them was a Darby/Scofield dispensational futurist.

Scripture and its historical fulfillments are immutable.

 

[TribulationSigns]

So who were the armies in Luke 21:20?

Note that the Christian believers actually literally fled from Judaea prior to 70 AD, in literal fulfillment of Matthew 24:16 (and Luke 21:21 and Mark 13:14). They understood and heeded Christ's warning literally, not spiritually.

And literally survived.

A couple of things first:

1.) The final week of Daniel 9:27 is NOT about the seven literal years whether related to 70AD or today. The week lasted for much longer time from the Cross to the Second Coming.

2.) Since Christ has confirmed a covenant with Elect (both Jewish and Gentiles) so we fought with the WORD against the word of Satan through the false prophets and professed Christians. They are the army the Lord talked about in the end time where Satan, after being loosened from the bottomless pit, now revealed through men in the CHURCH where the testimony of Two Witnesses has been silenced.

The Lord did not talk about the physical army from Rome to destroy the physical city of JErsualem and her temple. This has nothing to do with people's need to literally fled from physical Judaea to the mountains.

 

[covenantee]

A couple of things first:

1.) The final week of Daniel 9:27 is NOT about the seven literal years whether related to 70AD or today. The week lasted for much longer time from the Cross to the Second Coming.

2.) Since Christ has confirmed a covenant with Elect (both Jewish and Gentiles) so we fought with the WORD against the word of Satan through the false prophets and professed Christians. They are the army the Lord talked about in the end time where Satan, after being loosened from the bottomless pit, now revealed through men in the CHURCH where the testimony of Two Witnesses has been silenced.

The Lord did not talk about the physical army from Rome to destroy the physical city of JErsualem and her temple. This has nothing to do with people's need to literally fled from physical Judaea to the mountains.

Before we discuss that, you still need to answer the two obvious questions:

Who were the armies of Luke 21:20? They're described as the abomination of desolation, so they're not the Elect.

Why did the Judaean Christians literally flee?

 

[TribulationSigns]

So who were the armies in Luke 21:20?

I like to respond to your question again. What armies? It is not physical armies from a country that will attack the physical city of Jersualem. Rather it is a SPIRITUAL armies. They are false prophets and christs with the spirit of the antichrist with the power of Satan. This is how Satan is revealed through them. They are commanded by God that they can only hurt those who have NOT YET SEALED (Saved) by God IN THE UNFAITHFUL NEW TESTAMENT CONGREGATION.

Consider wisely:

Rev 9:4-11
(4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
(7) And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
(8) And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
(9) And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
(10) And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
(11) And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Please understand that God has defined the locusts with power like the scorpions as the false prophets and christs with the spirit of Satan. God is using this army to hurt only those men who were not sealed in their foreheads (Read Revelation 7:1-4). That is why it won't happen until God FIRST seals all of His Elect through the testimony of Two Witnesses before Satan can be loosened and attack Church. Remember that will be when the Lord gave up the "court without the temple" to be delivered to Satan and his armies, Revelation 11:1-2.
How long is five months? Again not literal. It is a spiritual period that lasts from the opening of the pit to the time when the Elect are told to flee to the mountain. Let me put these in order to help you get an idea:

1.) Great Tribulation (5 months, that are "WITHIN" the 1,260 of Two Witnesses' testimony - the beginning of sorrow)
2.) All Saints are killed (silenced) or the sacrifice and offering ceased when the Beast comes out (after 1,260 of testimony are finished)
3.) Saints come out from among them (1,290 when the abomination of desolation be set up - the judgment of church begins for "one hour"). THis is when Saints shall "see" the abomination of desolation to flee from unfaithful church.
4.) After the one hour of Judgment of the whore, the Lord returns, and the Saints, whoever alive and remains, shall meet with Him in the air at the Last Trump.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Who were the armies of Luke 21:20?

I just responded it recently and I will say that it is NOT a literal army of Rome like you thought it was. Luke 21:20 did not take place in 70AD but in the end time AFTER the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished and the church fell into apostasy and desolation with the army of false prophets and christs coming in.

They're described as the abomination of desolation, so they're not the Elect.

No, the army of Rome was not abomination of desolation. The holy place wasn't temple in 70AD. It was in the church where Christ was supposed to stand, but the armies of false prophets and christs replaced it with abominations of feeling good gospels, women as pastors, homosexual marriage, homosexual pastors, worldly entertainment, etc. etc.

Why did the Judaean Christians literally flee?

I do not teach nor support this as it is not what Bible talked about.

 

[covenantee]

I just responded it recently and I will say that it is NOT a literal army of Rome like you thought it was. Luke 21:20 did not take place in 70AD but in the end time AFTER the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished and the church fell into apostasy and desolation with the army of false prophets and christs coming in.



No, the army of Rome was not abomination of desolation. The holy place wasn't temple in 70AD. It was in the church where Christ was supposed to stand, but the armies of false prophets and christs replaced it with abominations of feeling good gospels, women as pastors, homosexual marriage, homosexual pastors, worldly entertainment, etc. etc.



I do not teach nor support this as it is not what Bible talked about.

Sorry bro, but no go.

The literal physical destruction of Jerusalem was a Divinely Ordained absolute necessity in order to eradicate all physical and spiritual vestiges of the old covenant and its era, and to confirm and affirm the ascendance and transcendence of the Everlasting Spiritual New Covenant and its New Era, which was inaugurated at Calvary and dwells in Christ and His New Testament Church and Kingdom.

An event of such watershed Scriptural, historical, literal, and spiritual significance could not possibly go unprophesied.

And it didn't.

Attested to by Daniel, Christ, Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sorry bro, but no go.

The literal physical destruction of Jerusalem was a Divinely Ordained absolute necessity in order to eradicate all physical and spiritual vestiges of the old covenant and its era, and to confirm and affirm the ascendance and transcendence of the Everlasting Spiritual New Covenant and its New Era, which was inaugurated at Calvary and dwells in Christ and His New Testament Church.

An event of such watershed Scriptural, historical, literal, and spiritual significance could not possibly go unprophesied.

And it didn't.

Attested to by Daniel, Christ, Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

I can see that your timing for the end of the Old Testament was incorrect because you insisted that the destruction of the physical temple (which was NOT holy in 70AD anyway) needed to take place almost 40 years after Christ's death and His rebuilding of the fallen temple in 3 days and have established His Kingdom through the New Testament church with many Christians already went into nations after Pentecost. So the physical destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and Roman armies were not what the Lord talked about in Scripture.

 

[covenantee]

I can see that your timing for the end of the Old Testament was incorrect because you insisted that the destruction of the physical temple (which was NOT holy in 70AD anyway) needed to take place almost 40 years after Christ's death and His rebuilding of the fallen temple in 3 days and have established His Kingdom through the New Testament church with many Christians already went into nations after Pentecost. So the physical destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and Roman armies were not what the Lord talked about in Scripture.

The Scriptural, historical, literal, and spiritual evidences all combine irrefutably.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Scriptural, historical, literal, and spiritual evidences all combine irrefutably.

The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

 

[3 Resurrections]

What armies? It is not physical armies from a country that will attack the physical city of Jersualem. Rather it is a SPIRITUAL armies. They are false prophets and christs with the spirit of the antichrist with the power of Satan. This is how Satan is revealed through them.

It was BOTH physical armies AND spiritual armies that were arrayed against Old Jerusalem in the AD 66-70 period. Jerusalem became "a prison for every unclean spirit" (Rev. 18:2) during those tumultuous years when Jerusalem was besieged by both physical and spiritual armies fighting against it (and inside it as well).

Christ had already predicted a soon-coming onslaught of demonic oppression on His own first-century generation of fellow-Israelites. During its "last state", there was going to be a seven-fold increase of more wicked demonic activity in Israel, making it worse than its "first state" when Christ had been among them, casting out devils in every city along with His disciples (Matthew 12:43-45).

The physical city of Old Jerusalem is designated as "the holy city" in Revelation simply to identify what used to be the "holy city". It is the scripture's use of a figure of speech called an "anachronism". There are many examples of this type of expression throughout the scriptures.

 

[Davy]

It was BOTH physical armies AND spiritual armies that were arrayed against Old Jerusalem in the AD 66-70 period. Jerusalem became "a prison for every unclean spirit" (Rev. 18:2) during those tumultuous years when Jerusalem was besieged by both physical and spiritual armies fighting against it (and inside it as well).

Christ had already predicted a soon-coming onslaught of demonic oppression on His own first-century generation of fellow-Israelites. During its "last state", there was going to be a seven-fold increase of more wicked demonic activity in Israel, making it worse than its "first state" when Christ had been among them, casting out devils in every city along with His disciples (Matthew 12:43-45).

The physical city of Old Jerusalem is designated as "the holy city" in Revelation simply to identify what used to be the "holy city". It is the scripture's use of a figure of speech called an "anachronism". There are many examples of this type of expression throughout the scriptures.

WRONG.

The 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd temple was about ONLY ONE NATION and ONE ARMY doing the destruction, the ROMAN ARMY under general TITUS.

To God, the city of Jerusalem is still... a 'holy city' to Him, because He chose to dwell there forever. You ought to read how He feels about the Jerusalem on earth per the Ezekiel 16 chapter. What you said suggests you haven't done your homework in the Old Testament about that.

The Zephaniah 3:8-9 prophecy is about the Ezekiel 38 & 39 alignment of nations (PLURAL) whose armies are to come upon Israel on the LAST DAY of this world, which is the day of Christ's future return to destroy those armies on that 'day of vengeance.'

 

[Douggg]

The Zephaniah 3:8-9 prophecy is about the Ezekiel 38 & 39 alignment of nations (PLURAL) whose armies are to come upon Israel on the LAST DAY of this world, which is the day of Christ's future return to destroy those armies on that 'day of vengeance.'

Davy, the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 is latter days, latter years (Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16) and will take place 7 years before Jesus returns.

When we see those things start to happen, look up, our redemption draws near.

Things are really close, since God puts hooks in Gog's jaws and turns him back (Ezekiel 38:4) to get involved in the Gog/Magog attack on Israel. Also, expect the identity of who the little horn person is - to be made known.

Gog/Magog...
then followed by the little horn as the prince that shall come into the middle east, who becomes the Antichrist by being anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews. And confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle of Deuteronomy 31:9-13 to begin the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd temple was about ONLY ONE NATION and ONE ARMY doing the destruction, the ROMAN ARMY under general TITUS.

The Roman army coming against Jerusalem was leading a multi-national coalition with auxiliary armies joined to the Roman legions. Josephus lists them in Wars 3.4.2 as coming from King Antiochus, Agrippa, and Sohemus, and the king of Arabia, as well as troops of horsemen from Syria. The Idumean nation also came against Jerusalem in that AD 66-70 period. Moreover, the competing Zealot factions with their various leaders which originated in "Galilee of the Gentiles" was a major factor in weakening Jerusalem's defenses, even before Titus arrived.

It was these Zealot armies originating from "Galilee of the Gentiles" which were responsible for treading the holy city underfoot for 42 months from late AD 66 until the spring of AD 70 (Rev. 11:2). Josephus says that these Zealot armies had been "encompassing the city round about on all sides", to keep any defectors to the Romans from escaping the city (Wars 4.9.1).

You are mistaking the meaning of the "days of vengeance" which God brought against Jerusalem and the Israelite people who had rejected, betrayed, and murdered His Son. Those "days of vengeance" against that particular first-century generation of Israelites were not prolonged into later generations, thousands of years down the road from then. "His blood be on us and our children" was a curse which God fulfilled in that first-century generation before it had passed away.

 

[Davy]

Davy, the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 is latter days, latter years (Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16) and will take place 7 years before Jesus returns.

NO, it won't happen 7 years prior to Jesus' return. That idea is NOT written anywhere in God's Word. Those behind that idea are Satan's host today who trying to 'create' the conditions that the deceived believe today that are on the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory.

The conflicts going on today in the middle east deceived Pre-tribbers believe is leading up to their fake 'rapture' prior to the time of "great tribulation". They don't read their Bible as written, and neither do you, otherwise you would have known that Jesus' coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation like HE said, and those armies that come upon Israel on the very last day of this world involves the events to occur on the "day of the Lord", which is the 'day' of Christ's coming. You'd know that if you had actually read your Bible for yourself.

 

[Douggg]

NO, it won't happen 7 years prior to Jesus' return. That idea is NOT written anywhere in God's Word.

Davy, it is Ezekiel 39. Gog/Magog event verses 1-6. Then the 7 years, verses 9-10. Then the Armageddon event, verses 17-20. Then in verses 21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

Regarding the rapture, it may happen before the 7 years begin, or it may not. But it has to happen before the beginning of the Day of the Lord and His wrath. 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

Davy, I am 75. I have studied the bible, and eschatology, for over 50 years. Yet, I don't speak to others in a demeaning way.

 

[Davy]

Davy, it is Ezekiel 39. Gog/Magog event verses 1-6. Then the 7 years, verses 9-10. Then the Armageddon event, verses 17-20. Then in verses 21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

You have listened to men's doctrines trying to divide up the Ezekiel 39 chapter to suit their created doctrines. The Ezekiel 39:17-29 verses are about the SAME event, but only a deeper detail. There is only ONE Gog-Magog event for the end of this present time, not two, which is what you are actually saying.

You are not noticing these two Scriptures that are linked to the SAME timing...

Ezek 39:4
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
KJV

Ezek 39:17-20
17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at My table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV

Regarding the rapture, it may happen before the 7 years begin, or it may not. But it has to happen before the beginning of the Day of the Lord and His wrath. 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

According to Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Lord Jesus showed His future coming to gather His saints is AFTER... the tribulation. So your guessing games really do not work.

Furthermore, per Revelation 16:15, Jesus speaking still to His Church on earth, He said He comes "as a thief", which is pointing to His future return and gathering of the Church AFTER the tribulation, and on the "day of the Lord" that both Paul and Peter said will come "as a thief in the night".

Paul in 1 Thess.5 said the "sudden destruction" upon those who will be saying, "Peace and safety" will happen on that "day of the Lord".

Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 said man's works are burned off this earth by God's consuming fire on that "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night".

Jesus said He comes "as a thief" in Rev.16:15.

Zechariah 14 shows Jesus' coming on that "day of the Lord", with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, bringing all His saints with Him there.

So with all your 75 years, HOW is it that you MISSED all that? It's clear that you have been listening to a 'system' of men's doctrines from the type churches you've been used to attending, when you should have been cracking open your Bible and heeding what God's Word actually says as written. So no way am I going to believe your 'rap' about saying you have done your homework in The Bible. You have not, which I am sorry to say since you are 75 years old, and you still need to get off the 'milk' bottle of men's doctrines of a false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

 

[Davy]

Here is what the Pre-tribbers here refuse to read and heed... the below verses is Lord Jesus speaking...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The above shows Jesus' coming AFTER THE TRIBULATION, not prior to it.



The phrase in 'purple' above is the SAME idea that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Jesus' bringing the asleep saints with Him when He comes.

... they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thess 4:14-16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

That's about the asleep saints Jesus will bring with Him when He comes. Paul showed the timing of that being at the future RESURRECTION. This is why Matt.24:29 says the saints there are gathered "from one end of heaven to the other". Jesus brings them with Him from heaven when He comes. They are not raptured from the earth.


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

That's the Mark 13 version. Notice the saints being gathered there are those still alive upon the earth. That links to Paul's 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse...

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

So what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is the SAME event about His future coming and gathering of His Church that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4!!!