Understanding the Trinity.

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Wrangler

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2nd Council of Constantinople, 553

II. If anyone does not confess that God the Word was twice begotten, the first before all time from the Father, non- temporal and bodiless, the other in the last days when he came down from the heavens and was incarnate by the holy, glorious, God-bearer, ever-virgin Mary, and born of her, let him be anathema.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You said that you understand that the Trinity Doctrine is confusing doctrine for over thinkers. You also said that you believe its a necessary doctrine for salvation. Well God makes it clear what's necessary for salvation, because God inspired men to write down what's required for salvation and no Trinity Doctrine is mentioned that I can see.
Also when people start using the word substance as you do when explaining the Trinity Doctrine you're going by something that Roman Emperor Constantine originated when he brought together some bishops at the council Nicaea in 325 C.E. The Emperor wasn't even a Christian.
The Encyclopedia Britannica says concerning the results of that council: "Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the decisions, and personally proposed...the crucial trinitarian formula expressing the relation to Christ to God in the Creed issued by the council, of one substance [homoousios] with the Father.... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination." This encyclopedia shows that many of these bishops even though the majority signed this Creed, didn't agree with how this Creed defined the relationship of the Son of God to the Father. When Trinitarians speak of the word substance when defining their Trinity Doctrine they go by a neoplatonic concept of substance which was and is foreign to the New Testament. The point is the whole concept of a God in three persons of one substance is founded on theology or philosophy, but not on the scriptures.
We must remember that the Old Testament was written before the concept of the Trinity was given. So I think that it's ridiculous to maintain that the True servant of the True God during pre- Christian times were in fundamental ignorance of the True God and they, the Jews, worshipped only one third of a so- called Godhead. The Jews knew who they worshipped they were not in ignorance of whom they worshipped. I see no Trinity Doctrine in the Old Testament.
 

Desire Of All Nations

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another verse showing the Trinity
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
That verse does not prove the trinity is biblical at all. Paul is clearly describing the Holy Spirit as something that unites Christians with each other, the Father, and Christ. Gabriel literally called the Holy Spirit the "power of the Highest" in Luk. 1. The Holy Spirit is how the Father and Christ are able to execute Their will and empower Christians to do what is required of them. The Holy Spirit is not a God Being any more than electricity is a human being.

When Christ talked about how His Father was in Him and how the same would be true for everyone else who received the Spirit, did He mean the Father would literally come down and dwell in all Christians? No. Imparting His Spirit to individual Christians is how the Father achieves that. This is extremely simple theology to understand, if only people accepted what the scriptures teach and didn't complicate it with man-made doctrines.
 

Scott Downey

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That verse does not prove the trinity is biblical at all. Paul is clearly describing the Holy Spirit as something that unites Christians with each other, the Father, and Christ. Gabriel literally called the Holy Spirit the "power of the Highest" in Luk. 1. The Holy Spirit is how the Father and Christ are able to execute Their will and empower Christians to do what is required of them. The Holy Spirit is not a God Being any more than electricity is a human being.

When Christ talked about how His Father was in Him and how the same would be true for everyone else who received the Spirit, did He mean the Father would literally come down and dwell in all Christians? No. Imparting His Spirit to individual Christians is how the Father achieves that. This is extremely simple theology to understand, if only people accepted what the scriptures teach and didn't complicate it with man-made doctrines.

From where did Jesus who is the Christ come?
He came from heaven, He is from above and you are from below.
John 1
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
 

Scott Downey

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The Godhead – What is it?

Excerpt
The Godhead – What is it?
The word "Godhead" can be found on three occasions in the King James Version of the Bible with the meaning of Deity or Divinity. In theological studies, the term Godhead is used to refer to the concept of the Triune God, or one God in three Persons that include God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Some note that the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible and is therefore not a biblical teaching. While the word is not used, the concept is. First, it is clear that God the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct because each person can be found in the same passage in the Bible at the same time on occasion. For example, following the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River, we read, "And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven [the Father] said, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.'" (Matthew 3:16-17, emphasis added).

etc...
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The Godhead – What is it?

Excerpt
The Godhead – What is it?
The word "Godhead" can be found on three occasions in the King James Version of the Bible with the meaning of Deity or Divinity. In theological studies, the term Godhead is used to refer to the concept of the Triune God, or one God in three Persons that include God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Some note that the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible and is therefore not a biblical teaching. While the word is not used, the concept is. First, it is clear that God the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct because each person can be found in the same passage in the Bible at the same time on occasion. For example, following the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River, we read, "And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven [the Father] said, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.'" (Matthew 3:16-17, emphasis added).

etc...

Yes the greek word, "to thei'on" is translated as Godhead in certain Bibles such as the king James Version and others at scriptures like Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9. At Acts 17:29 E.J. Good speeds translation, translates "to thei'on" as "the divine nature." The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says that the greek phrase "to thei'on" is derived from the adjective theios, meaning "pertaining to God," "divine."
Liddell and Scotts Greek-English Lexicon gives as the meaning of "to thei'on" as "the Divinity." So the Greek phrase "to thei'on" can be understood to refer to a person or to a quality. This helps us to know that the context that the Greek phrase "to thei'on" is used must guide the translater in his choice of words to use. Like at Acts 17:29 the context of this scripture shows that the person of God is being described, so it's appropriate to render the Greek phrase, "to thei'on" as "Divine being" in Bible translations such as New World Translation, New International Version, English Standard Version, Berean Literal Bible, New King James Version, New American Standard Bible and many more versions.
At Romans 1:20 the Apostle was inspired to refer to the undeniable visible evidence of God's "invisible qualities," particularly his "eternal power and Godship [thei•o'tes]." Other Translations such as KJV, NE, RS, JB translates thei•o'tes as "Godhead" or "diety," conveying to many the idea of personality, the state of being a person. However, according to Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, the Greek word thei•o'tes means "divine nature, divinity." So there is a basis for rendering thei•o'tes as referring to the quality of being a god, not the person of God, and this is supported by the context. The Apostle is discussing things that are discernible in the physical creation. For example, while the creation does not reveal the name of God, it does give evidence of his "eternal power" needed to create and sustain the universe. The physical creation also displays his "Godship," the fact that the creator truly is God and is worthy of worship.

At Colossians 2:9 the Apostle says that in Christ "all the fullness of the divine quality [form of the•o'tes] dwells bodily." Here, again, some translations KJV, NE, RS, NAB read "Godhead" or "diety," which trinitarians interpret to mean God personally dwells in Christ. Liddell and Scotts Greek-English Lexicon defines the•o'tes in basically the same way it does thei•o'tes, meaning "divinity, divine nature." The Syriac Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate render this word as "divinity." So here at Colossians 2:9 there is a solid basis for rendering the•o'tes as referring to quality, not to personality.
When we consider the context of Colossians 2:9 it clearly shows that having "divinity," or "divine nature," does not make Christ the same as God the Almighty. In Colossians 1:19 the apostle Paul says: "God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him." So all fullness dwells in Christ because it "pleased the Father(KJV, DY), because it was "by God's own choice."(NE) So the fullness of "divinity" that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father. At Colossians 3:1 the Apostle Paul speaks of Christ as being seated at the right hand of God. This shows that Christ having the fullness doesn't make him the same as Almighty God. Another thing to keep in mind is that at Colossians 2:8 Christians are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human tradition. It's clear that those who believe in the Trinity Doctrine don't want to keep things in context with the scriptures.
 
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Scott Downey

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Yes the greek word, "to thei'on" is translated as Godhead in certain Bibles such as the king James Version and others at scriptures like Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9. At Acts 17:29 E.J. Good speeds translation, translates "to thei'on" as "the divine nature." The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says that the greek phrase "to thei'on" is derived from the adjective theios, meaning "pertaining to God," "divine."
Liddell and Scotts Greek-English Lexicon gives as the meaning of "to thei'on" as "the Divinity." So the Greek phrase "to thei'on" can be understood to refer to a person or to a quality. This helps us to know that the context that the Greek phrase "to thei'on" is used must guide the translater in his choice of words to use. Like at Acts 17:29 the context of this scripture shows that the person of God is being described, so it's appropriate to render the Greek phrase, "to thei'on" as "Divine being" in Bible translations such as New World Translation, New International Version, English Standard Version, Berean Literal Bible, New King James Version, New American Standard Bible and many more versions.
At Romans 1:20 the Apostle was inspired to refer to the undeniable visible evidence of God's "invisible qualities," particularly his "eternal power and Godship [thei•o'tes]." Other Translations such as KJV, NE, RS, JB translates thei•o'tes as "Godhead" or "diety," conveying to many the idea of personality, the state of being a person. However, according to Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, the Greek word thei•o'tes means "divine nature, divinity." So there is a basis for rendering thei•o'tes as referring to the quality of being a god, not the person of God, and this is supported by the context. The Apostle is discussing things that are discernible in the physical creation. For example, while the creation does not reveal the name of God, it does give evidence of his "eternal power" needed to create and sustain the universe. The physical creation also displays his "Godship," the fact that the creator truly is God and is worthy of worship.

At Colossians 2:9 the Apostle says that in Christ "all the fullness of the divine quality [form of the•o'tes] dwells bodily." Here, again, some translations KJV, NE, RS, NAB read "Godhead" or "diety," which trinitarians interpret to mean God personally dwells in Christ. Liddell and Scotts Greek-English Lexicon defines the•o'tes in basically the same way it does thei•o'tes, meaning "divinity, divine nature." The Syriac Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate render this word as "divinity." So here at Colossians 2:9 there is a solid basis for rendering the•o'tes as referring to quality, not to personality.
When we consider the context of Colossians 2:9 it clearly shows that having "divinity," or "divine nature," does not make Christ the same as God the Almighty. In Colossians 1:19 the apostle Paul says: "God saw good for all Chinese to dwell in him." So all fullness dwells in Christ because it "pleased the Father(KJV, DY), because it was "by God's own choice."(NE) So the fullness of "divinity" that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father. At Colossians 3:1 the Apostle Paul speaks of Christ as being seated at the right hand of God. This shows that Christ having the fullness doesn't make him the same as Almighty God. Another thing to keep in mind is that at Colossians 2:8 Christians are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human tradition. It's clear that those who believe in the Trinity Doctrine don't want to keep things in context with the scriptures.

Christ is the 'EXPRESS IMAGE' of God.
  1. the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins

Christ here has the brightness of the glory of God. He is the Light.
Christ the exact expression of God, precise reproduction of God
Christ upholds all things by the word of His power

Hebrews 1
New King James Version
God’s Supreme Revelation
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
 

Scott Downey

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2 Corinthians 4:6
For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the express image of God's person. If you want to know the light of the glory of God, you see it in the face of Jesus Christ.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Christ is the 'EXPRESS IMAGE' of God.
  1. the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins

Christ here has the brightness of the glory of God. He is the Light.
Christ the exact expression of God, precise reproduction of God
Christ upholds all things by the word of His power

Hebrews 1
New King James Version
God’s Supreme Revelation
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Christ is the image of God, not God himself, and as you said the brightness or reflection of God's glory, not God's glory itself, there's a difference between being the brightness or reflection of Gods glory and actually being that glory. Christ and God are not the same person. The scriptures show that the person who is the Father and God of Christ subjected all authorities to his Only Begotten Son it was through the Only Begotten Son that the Father and God of Christ created the worlds. Also the scriptures show that Christ sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high that means Christ isn't that Majesty on high. These scriptures at Hebrews show that God made his Only Begotten Son better than the Angels. The Father and God of Christ has made his Only Begotten Son name better than the Angels name, but God's name has always been a better or superior name than the Angels.
 
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Pierac

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God made man in His image, according to His likeness.

Now think about it this way, it is not all that abstract.

Man is spirit, soul, and body. 3 parts to make the whole individual man, who is also all of one being.

God is Christ (the incarnation of the body), Father (the soul or mind of the LORD GOD) Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Lord), 3 parts to make the whole God, they are all of one being.

The creation of man also shows the Trinity.

Adam begot a son after his image, in his own likeness
  1. Genesis 1:26
    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Genesis 1:27
    So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Genesis 5:3
    And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Genesis 9:6
    “Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.


Stop following the traditions of men…

Acts 17:10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

I’m going to teach you something you won’t hear in your Church… The spirit you have is not yours… It belongs to God! Lets look at scripture…

(Ecc 12:7) and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit (Breath rûaḥ) returns to God who gave it.

(Psa 146:4) His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

Spirit - The word spirit usually brings to mind to most a ghostly image that separates from our bodies at death and departs to either heaven or hell. This definition which most of us are so familiar with is 100% Greek philosophy. It is pure Platonism. To Greek philosophers the words "spirit" and "soul" are interchangeable, they mean the same thing. To a Jew they are vastly different.

Platonism - Believed that we must be capable of existing apart from our bodies. The flesh is evil. The body is a prison. It is bad for the soul (i.e. spirit) to be in the body. Platonism suggests the immortality of the soul, and the soul then becoming incarnate (Grolier’s Encyclopedia (GE)).

This definition of "spirit" if used, will completely change the meanings of many passages in the Bible, and lead to false conclusions. It has inherent problems right away. First, only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15-16). Second, I do not know of anyone that would dispute that judgment happens at the return of Christ. So how then can your spirit or soul go to heaven or hell at death if you have not yet been judged? This should be a clue that something is wrong with your definition of "spirit."

Let us now examine what "spirit" means to a Jew. The word "spirit" in Hebrew is "ruah" and in Greek it is "pneuma." The Jews used ruah in the same way that they used pneuma.

"Unlike the Greeks, who found dissolution of the body desirable (cf Socrates), Paul has a Jewish horror of it" (Roman Catholic New American Bible (NAB)).

Spirit - (ruah & pneuma) - Breath of life. The vital principal by which the body is animated (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (VED)).

In other words, it is the life force that God gives to people and animals that animates their bodies, which gives them life. When He takes it away their “spirit” they die.

Examples:

Psalms 104:29 -30: "When you take away their breath (ruah), they perish and return to the dust from which they came. When you send forth your breath (ruah), they are created."

Ecclesiates 12:7: "And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath (ruah) returns to God who gave it."

Psalms 33:6: "When his spirit (ruah) departs he returns to his earth; on that day his plans perish."

This understanding is critical when one interprets a verse such as Luke 23:46:

"Father, into your hands I commend my spirit;" and when he said this he breathed his last.

If you use the Greek philosophical definition as most people do, you will arrive at the conclusion that at that moment Jesus’ Greek type spirit went to heaven to be with God. This of course is not possible because in John 20:17 when Jesus was raised from the dead after three days, he appeared to Mary of Magdala and told her:

"Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father."

Jesus is clear that he has not yet been to the Father. Where has he been for three days? He has been in Sheol, the pit, the grave, the earth. Jesus was dead! He himself tells us in John 12:32:

"And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."

Jesus has been dead as Scripture says of him. On the third day God resurrected him.

Yet, if we use the Jewish definition of spirit it will make perfect sense. Jesus’ breath of life returned to the Father and he died and was in the earth for three days. There is then no conflict with John 20:17.

So the best observation comes from Jesus Himself, at His death He teaches… (Luke 23:46) And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last. Read again what Jesus said…

Jesus gave up his Spirit but not His Soul. An example that supports this is when Mary at Jesus’ tomb turned and saw Jesus. She naturally got excited and Jesus told her… John 20:17 … Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. Do not miss this connection, Jesus gave up his Spirit to the Father at death but told Mary He had not yet ascended to the Father after His resurrection. It is clear the scriptures never teach that the soul is or has an immortal subsistence. As both Jesus’ body and soul died and went to hades! Just as Ecclesiates 12:7 teaches.


Study harder my friend!

Paul
 

Pierac

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Negative.

Not one single human in the history of the world ever read the Bible on their own and came away with an understanding of the trinity, nor learned that it was even a concept in scripture....

God just doesn't work that way. He is not the author of confusion, His concepts are straightforward, and if anything is in question, He defines it, and teaches it, thoroughly with scripture. His entire book repeats, over and over again, that He is ONE individual God, and there is NONE beside Him, on either side. He ALONE is God.

So true… Even the Church fathers who pushed this lie on to the Church admitted so…

AUGUSTINE: CONFESSIONS

Book 7 CHAPTER IX

13. And first of all, willing to show me how thou dost "resist the proud, but give grace to the humble,"[184] and how mercifully thou hast made known to men the way of humility in that thy Word "was made flesh and dwelt among men,"[185] thou didst procure for me, through one inflated with the most monstrous pride, certain books of the Platonists, translated from Greek into Latin.[186] And therein I found, not indeed in the same words, but to the selfsame effect, enforced by many and various reasons that "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." That which was made by him is "life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." Furthermore, I read that the soul of man, though it "bears witness to the light," yet itself "is not the light; but the Word of God, being God, is that true light that lights every man who comes into the world." And further, that "he was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."[187] But that "he came unto his own, and his own received him not. And as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on his name"[188]--this I did not find there.

14. Similarly, I read there that God the Word was born "not of flesh nor of blood, nor of the will of man, nor the will of the flesh, but of God."[189] But, that "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"[190]--I found this nowhere there.

Book 7 CHAPTER XIX
25. But I thought otherwise. I saw in our Lord Christ only a man of eminent wisdom to whom no other man could be compared--especially because he was miraculously born of a virgin--sent to set us an example of despising worldly things for the attainment of immortality, and thus exhibiting his divine care for us. Because of this, I held that he had merited his great authority as leader. But concerning the mystery contained in "the Word was made flesh," I could not even form a notion. From what I learned from what has been handed down to us in the books about him--that he ate, drank, slept, walked, rejoiced in spirit, was sad, and discoursed with his fellows--I realized that his flesh alone was not bound unto thy Word, but also that there was a bond with the human soul and body. Everyone knows this who knows the unchangeableness of thy Word, and this I knew by now, as far as I was able, and I had no doubts at all about it. For at one time to move the limbs by an act of will, at another time not; at one time to feel some emotion, at another time not; at one time to speak intelligibly through verbal signs, at another, not--these are all properties of a soul and mind subject to change. And if these things were falsely written about him, all the rest would risk the imputation of falsehood, and there would remain in those books no saving faith for the human race.
Therefore, because they were written truthfully, I acknowledged a perfect man to be in Christ--not the body of a man only, nor, in the body, an animal soul without a rational one as well, but a true man. And this man I held to be superior to all others, not only because he was a form of the Truth, but also because of the great excellence and perfection of his human nature, due to his participation in wisdom.

Book 7 CHAPTER XX

26. By having thus read the books of the Platonists, and having been taught by them to search for the incorporeal Truth, I saw how thy invisible things are understood through the things that are made. And, even when I was thrown back, I still sensed what it was that the dullness of my soul would not allow me to contemplate. I was assured that thou wast, and wast infinite, though not diffused in finite space or infinity; that thou truly art, who art ever the same, varying neither in part nor motion; and that all things are from thee, as is proved by this sure cause alone: that they exist.
Of all this I was convinced, yet I was too weak to enjoy thee. I chattered away as if I were an expert; but if I had not sought thy Way in Christ our Saviour, my knowledge would have turned out to be not instruction but destruction.[222] For now full of what was in fact my punishment, I had begun to desire to seem wise. I did not mourn my ignorance, but rather was puffed up with knowledge. For where was that love which builds upon the foundation of humility, which is Jesus Christ?[223] Or, when would these books teach me this? I now believe that it was thy pleasure that I should fall upon these books before I studied thy Scriptures, that it might be impressed on my memory how I was affected by them; and then afterward, when I was subdued by thy Scriptures and when my wounds were touched by thy healing fingers, I might discern and distinguish what a difference there is between presumption and confession--between those who saw where they were to go even if they did not see the way, and the Way which leads, not only to the observing, but also the inhabiting of the blessed country. For had I first been molded in thy Holy Scriptures, and if thou hadst grown sweet to me through my familiar use of them, and if then I had afterward fallen on those volumes, they might have pushed me off the solid ground of godliness--or if I had stood firm in that wholesome disposition which I had there acquired, I might have thought that wisdom could be attained by the study of those [Platonist] books alone.
Book 8 CHAPTER II

3. I went, therefore, to Simplicianus, the spiritual father of Ambrose (then a bishop), whom Ambrose truly loved as a father. I recounted to him all the mazes of my wanderings, but when I mentioned to him that I had read certain books of the Platonists which Victorinus--formerly professor of rhetoric at Rome, who died a Christian, as I had been told--had translated into Latin, Simplicianus congratulated me that I had not fallen upon the writings of other philosophers, which were full of fallacies and deceit, "after the beggarly elements of this world,"[240] whereas in the Platonists, at every turn, the pathway led to belief in God and his Word.

There you have it... Like i said before!

H. N. Snaith in his book, “The Distinctive Ideas of the Old Testament,” writes “Christianity itself has tended to suffer from a translation out of the Prophets and into Plato.” (p161) “Our position is that the reinterpretation of Biblical theology in terms of the ideas of the Greek philosophers has been both a widespread throughout the centuries and everywhere destructive to the essence of the Christian faith.” (p187.). Snaith also makes this remark that if his “thesis” is correct:… “then neither Catholic nor Protestant theology is based on Biblical theology. In each case we have a denomination of Christian theology by Greek thought… We hold that there can be no right (theology) until we have come to a clear view of the distinctive ideas of both Old and New Testaments and their differences from the pagan ideas which have so largely dominated Christian thought.” (p188.).


Peace,
Paul
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Then by the Law, in worshipping Jesus you are worshipping an idol... do you see the problem with denying that Jesus is God incarnate?

It's not me with the problem, it's you. You deny that Jesus became human by saying it was God who became human. Because by saying Jesus is God and it was God who became human you deny that it's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word and who became human. It is those that deny to exercise faith that God sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind that won't be saved, and you're teaching people it wasn't the Only Begotten Son who became human and died for mankind, instead you're teaching it was God who became human and died for mankind. Also I'm not worshipping Jesus I'm worshipping his God and Father which Jesus says he has and is also Jesus Apostles and disciples, Father and God. It is you and those like who believe in the Trinity who have made Jesus into a idol.
 
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David H.

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It's not me with the problem, it's you. You deny that Jesus became human by saying it was God who became human. Because by saying Jesus is God and it was God who became human you deny that it's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word and who became human. It is those that deny to exercise faith that God sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind that won't be saved, and you're teaching people it wasn't the Only Begotten Son who became human and died for mankind, instead you're teaching it was God who became human and died for mankind. Also I'm not worshipping Jesus I'm worshipping his God and Father which Jesus says he has and is also Jesus Apostles and disciples, Father and God. It is you and those like who believe in the Trinity who have made Jesus into a idol.

I am not a "oneness" Pentecostal if that is what you're accusing me of. The trinitarians believe in three different persons and One God, therefore I do not deny the Son of God, neither do I deny the Humanity of Christ.... "A body I have prepared for you"... This discussion is of the deity of Christ.

instead you're teaching it was God who became human and died for mankind.
It is God the Son who became Human and died to save His creation. This is the scope and depth of his love for us, that he would die for such a worm as I.

Seeing as @Wrangler is still unwilling to answer my questions, I will ask them of you.

Acts 20:28 saysit is the blood of God that has purchased us, If Jesus is not God incarnate, when is it that God the Father shed his blood?

Zechariah 12:10 speaks of the redemption of Israel, and Jehovah speaking says they will see ME whom they have pierced. When was it that God the Father was pierced If Jesus is not Jehovah?