Unforgiveable Blasphemy?

[forrestcupp]

imho - here as elsewhere it is wrongly being generally stated and accepted that "you can be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit" - presumably you claim this applies to you -,so where did you pick this up or did you make it up and claim being led by the Holy Spirit since the bible at Jn 14 :16-17 seems to say otherwise - twinc

So you don't believe you can be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit? The New Testament is full of it, and John 14:16-17 which you brought up, is one of the chief passages that describes that happening. If you read those verses and think it means you can't be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, I really don't know what to tell you. That's exactly what those verses are saying will happen. Followers of Christ are not the world.

If you don't believe the Holy Spirit is an intimate part of a Christian's life, I feel sorry for you. You're trudging through this life by your own power. It's like trying to mow an acre of grass with a pair of scissors when there is a fully functioning zero-radius riding mower sitting next to you waiting to be used.

 

[amadeus]

So you don't believe you can be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit? The New Testament is full of it, and John 14:16-17 which you brought up, is one of the chief passages that describes that happening. If you read those verses and think it means you can't be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, I really don't know what to tell you. That's exactly what those verses are saying will happen. Followers of Christ are not the world.

If you don't believe the Holy Spirit is an intimate part of a Christian's life, I feel sorry for you. You're trudging through this life by your own power. It's like trying to mow an acre of grass with a pair of scissors when there is a fully functioning zero-radius riding mower sitting next to you waiting to be used.

Twinc I believe takes the general Catholic view that much of the gospels in particular are not addressed to you and me directly. It was addressed to the apostles. You and me can read it, but if we interpret it and it disagrees with the official interpretation then we are of course wrong. He also disagrees with much of today's official Catholic beliefs. He is in effect a Protestant who claims to be one of the correct Catholics.

If I have stated it wrong, please correct me twinc.

 

[Helen]

imho - here as elsewhere it is wrongly being generally stated and accepted that "you can be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit" - presumably you claim this applies to you -,so where did you pick this up or did you make it up and claim being led by the Holy Spirit since the bible at Jn 14 :16-17 seems to say otherwise - twinc

Twic don't play the fool...you know the scriptures as well as we do.
Jesus told them to tarry until the received. Paul asked them in ( in the house) in Acts " Have you received since you believed?" and he prayed that they would.
We are told to live and move and have our bring in God and His Spirit.
So, most of us DO.
Just because you believe that being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues is gobbledygook...doesn't make it null and void!!!

That is just your "opinion".

 

[pia]

so where did you pick this up or did you make it up

I went from being a 30 year old atheist, to knowing that Jesus and therefore God, is 100% real....But it was 6 odd years after that, when I met a small group of believers who introduced me to a Bible, for the first time and after a couple of times with them, they showed me what the Bible had to say about receiving the Gift of God in the form of His Living Spirit.......3 of them laid their hands upon me and said something ( I don't recall what ) and I suddenly felt all lifted up and filled with contentment/ease such as I have never felt before....When I got home and for a few months after that, my life was like a slice of paradise around me 24/7.
When I first heard these people speaking in what they called 'tongues' I had to hide my face, because I almost burst out laughing....I did not believe THAT at first.....Then suddenly at a meeting out of my own mouth, came these strange sound and words, while we were deep in prayer......When we finished, I tried everything I could, to reproduce those sounds and I simply could not....Shortly after, I saw a documentary on Africa, and there were these people speaking exactly as what had come out of my mouth sounded like....I surely couldn't understand any of the words but I recognized the clicks and such...So He proved to me that tongues are actually true....but that doesn't mean that everyone who claims to be speaking in tongues, are........Only one other time did I see it work openly, when another person was speaking in tongues and I heard one sentence in what I could understand....the person was an 11 year old girl, a family friend, and that one sentence (in English, I presume) was :" The angels are coming breaking down the walls." She had spoken for about 2 1/2 hours in tongues at that point, and she continued well after I heard that sentence....I only told her after she had finished.....She had no idea herself lol, I thought that was odd at the time........So Twinc, I don't know what else to say....Like you i hadn't believed it, but as they say.....Seeing is believing

 

[pia]

It was addressed to the apostles.

Oh my goodness, all these years and I had no clue.....is THAT what they think...No wonder they accept that whole elitist things and hierarchy within their church.....Now I just truly feel sorry for them, that is just awful....That leaves so very much of God that they must then miss out on ? Well, it certainly explains a lot to me...Thank you so much, I truly didn't know that..

 

[pia]

this life by your own power.

Amen....Which is also why it truly is so sad....I only just found out myself how they believed the gospels to be read...I didn't know before just a few minutes ago...To miss out on such a relationship which come with such an abundance of gifts, the greatest of course being The Holy Spirit ? It's almost unthinkable to me, and makes me wonder how on earth they hold on ? How different God and Jesus must seem to them, as far as personality goes...whoa, they must live in a fair bit of fear? That's no good for sure...We can measure how much of the Love of God, we have allowed into ourselves, by seeing how much fear we still have because :" Perfect (or perfected) Love casts out ALL fear."....So, if we're still living in fear, we are still partly in the darkness, and this should not be so....

 

[twinc]

So you don't believe you can be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit? The New Testament is full of it, and John 14:16-17 which you brought up, is one of the chief passages that describes that happening. If you read those verses and think it means you can't be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, I really don't know what to tell you. That's exactly what those verses are saying will happen. Followers of Christ are not the world.

If you don't believe the Holy Spirit is an intimate part of a Christian's life, I feel sorry for you. You're trudging through this life by your own power. It's like trying to mow an acre of grass with a pair of scissors when there is a fully functioning zero-radius riding mower sitting next to you waiting to be used.

the Holy Spirit is indeed a very intimate part of a Catholic's life and was and is sent only on special demand or mission by and for His Church and not on all or any foolish request by any Tom, Mick or Mary imho - btw all and everyone doing their own way out, weird and wacky thing is an apt description for a follower of Christ some would have us accept - twinc

 

[forrestcupp]

the Holy Spirit is indeed a very intimate part of a Catholic's life and was and is sent only on special demand or mission by and for His Church and not on all or any foolish request by any Tom, Mick or Mary imho - btw all and everyone doing their own way out, weird and wacky thing is an apt description for a follower of Christ some would have us accept - twinc

I've never seen anything that comes close to resembling that in the Bible. If you can twist things to make it seem that way, I really feel sorry for you. You are a lot more significant to God than you believe you are.

 

[amadeus]

Amen....Which is also why it truly is so sad....I only just found out myself how they believed the gospels to be read...I didn't know before just a few minutes ago...To miss out on such a relationship which come with such an abundance of gifts, the greatest of course being The Holy Spirit ? It's almost unthinkable to me, and makes me wonder how on earth they hold on ? How different God and Jesus must seem to them, as far as personality goes...whoa, they must live in a fair bit of fear? That's no good for sure...We can measure how much of the Love of God, we have allowed into ourselves, by seeing how much fear we still have because :" Perfect (or perfected) Love casts out ALL fear."....So, if we're still living in fear, we are still partly in the darkness, and this should not be so....

The good thing is that there are Catholics who are not stuck in such a rut, although, likely if some of the positioned members of the hierarchy really understood where those Catholics were it might stir up needless trouble for them. I say this because I was a Catholic and I loved God even though I was admittedly very ignorant of much that I was supposed to know and to believe. Also, I have met a few Catholics who have not been as hard nosed as some to whom we may be exposed around here. What I mean to say is they had really determined to put Jesus first in spite of their Catholicism. It that a contradiction? God only really knows.

 

[aspen]

Twinc does not speak for the Catholic Church - it is easier to believe ideas that sound salacious from members of the Catholic Church, but if you really want to know what is taught go to the Catholic Catechism

 

[twinc]

Twinc does not speak for the Catholic Church - it is easier to believe ideas that sound salacious from members of the Catholic Church, but if you really want to know what is taught go to the Catholic Catechism

The good thing is that there are Catholics who are not stuck in such a rut, although, likely if some of the positioned members of the hierarchy really understood where those Catholics were it might stir up needless trouble for them. I say this because I was a Catholic and I loved God even though I was admittedly very ignorant of much that I was supposed to know and to believe. Also, I have met a few Catholics who have not been as hard nosed as some to whom we may be exposed around here. What I mean to say is they had really determined to put Jesus first in spite of their Catholicism. It that a contradiction? God only really knows.

non Catholics put themselves first, Jesus second and His church third - what they individually believe as inspired is all that matters imho - twinc

The good thing is that there are Catholics who are not stuck in such a rut, although, likely if some of the positioned members of the hierarchy really understood where those Catholics were it might stir up needless trouble for them. I say this because I was a Catholic and I loved God even though I was admittedly very ignorant of much that I was supposed to know and to believe. Also, I have met a few Catholics who have not been as hard nosed as some to whom we may be exposed around here. What I mean to say is they had really determined to put Jesus first in spite of their Catholicism. It that a contradiction? God only really knows.

Twinc does not speak for the Catholic Church - it is easier to believe ideas that sound salacious from members of the Catholic Church, but if you really want to know what is taught go to the Catholic Catechism

but unlike most others, who fancy themselves more inspired and infallible than the Pope, Catholics are free to discuss - twinc

 

[amadeus]

non Catholics put themselves first, Jesus second and His church third - what they individually believe as inspired is all that matters imho - twinc

Is this a judgment you are allowed to or qualified to make? You lump all non-Catholics together as missing the mark. Surely you don't mean this no matter what you may think about me.

but unlike most others, who fancy themselves more inspired and infallible than the Pope, Catholics are free to discuss - twinc

Everyone is allowed to discuss, but only people who are led by the Holy Spirit will get to where God wants them.

 

[twinc]

Is this a judgment you are allowed to or qualified to make? You lump all non-Catholics together as missing the mark. Surely you don't mean this no matter what you may think about me.



Everyone is allowed to discuss, but only people who are led by the Holy Spirit will get to where God wants them.

exactly so - agreed but only if led by the Holy Spirit via the Church as was the case from the beginning and is still so now imho - twinc

 

[aspen]

John 3:8 disagrees Twinc

 

[twinc]

John 3:8 disagrees Twinc

not at all but it could be your particular interpretation does = btw I notice here it seems you have no need for the Catechism - twinc

 

[aspen]

not at all but it could be your particular interpretation does = btw I notice here it seems you have no need for the Catechism - twinc

I have no need for the Catechism because I gave you a Bible verse? Twinc, i have also recommended that people use the Catechism in order to learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches rather that listen to your rules regarding the Holy Spirit

 

[twinc]

I have no need for the Catechism because I gave you a Bible verse? Twinc, i have also recommended that people use the Catechism in order to learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches rather that listen to your rules regarding the Holy Spirit

depends on whether your stance is what is good for the goose is good for the gander or whether one man's meat is another man's poison - twinc

 

[amadeus]

exactly so - agreed but only if led by the Holy Spirit via the Church as was the case from the beginning and is still so now imho - twinc

"via the Church" is likely the problem we have twinc. The Church is all of the members of the Body of Christ. If I am a part of that Body, I do qualify. You surely would not go so far as to deny that I am, would you?

 

[twinc]

"via the Church" is likely the problem we have twinc. The Church is all of the members of the Body of Christ. If I am a part of that Body, I do qualify. You surely would not go so far as to deny that I am, would you?

you do deny that where Peter was and is there is the Church - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

What I mean to say is they had really determined to put Jesus first in spite of their Catholicism.

When one jumps in a muddy puddle will they not be covered in mud, when one walks in the rain will not one get wet, when one drops a white cloth into a tin of paint will it not become the colour of the paint. What is it people do not understand as it is written

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

If one desires to become a JW do they not go to a JW church, when one desires to become a Morman do they not go to a morman church. Dont you know the SDA church cannot produce catholics, nor the Anglican church JWs. And so it is, the only way to become a Christian is to go to Christ, There is no other way, none.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Dont you know what happens to a cup of water if you put a tea bag in it, it eventually becomes saturated, and so it is with religion, the longer you stay joined to it the more like it you will become, we have some wonderful examples of that here on this forum.