Unforgiveable Blasphemy?

[twinc]

could attributing the works and fruits of devils to the Holy Spirit be unforgiveable blasphemy - twinc

 

[Helen]

could attributing the works and fruits of devils to the Holy Spirit be unforgiveable blasphemy - twinc

Biblically, no.

But it does say WOE.
"Woe unto him who calls good evil and evil good."

 

[aspen]

Refusing to return The Holy Spirit’s love and share it with our neighbor is the unforgivable sin - Jesus forgave us for our self focused love, if we continue to exault self over God and others we have rejected God

 

[twinc]

Biblically, no.

But it does say WOE.
"Woe unto him who calls good evil and evil good."

it also says this will be forgiven except when applied to and against the Holy Spirit as the trouble maker and divider, confuser, etc imho - twinc

 

[Helen]

If truth be told twinc...I have never ever believed in any unforgivable sin.
All sin has a place of forgivness.
God is that Place.

 

[DPMartin]

If truth be told twinc...I have never ever believed in any unforgivable sin.
All sin has a place of forgivness.
God is that Place.

well bygrace there is, its called rejection of God's Presence. Satan and friends don't have any possibility of redemption to the place before God they had once before. why is that? its because they saw the face of God and rejected the Lord God. hence there's no recovery from that. and also is the reason why for our sakes we don't see God.

when Jesus was with the Israelites all a Jew would have to do, is acknowledge Jesus as Son of God, the Lord and they are saved. (example thief on the cross) this is part of the special circumstance they had via God's promise to Abraham being chosen children of Abraham. but if you remember devils would acknowledge Christ and Jesus would tell them to shut up. not because it was some secret but because they had their chance to remain in His Presence by acknowledging Him then, in His full revelation of His Presence in Heaven.

so blaspheming the "Holy Spirit" is to reject the Presence of God should God make His Presence known. rejecting God's Presence is unforgivable, and man has no special privileges above angels on that, Jesus expressed warning on that for that reason.

also bygrace its a real bad idea to knowingly disagree with the Lord God, Heaven and earth isn't ruled by you.

 

[Helen]

well bygrace there is, its called rejection of God's Presence. Satan and friends don't have any possibility of redemption to the place before God they had once before. why is that? its because they saw the face of God and rejected the Lord God. hence there's no recovery from that. and also is the reason why for our sakes we don't see God.
<snip>

Well , we will each have to answer for what we believe.
I know what I believe. As yet, God has not caused a change of mind for me concerning salvation of man.
For my first 20 years with God I believed as you do ( I don't care about the Devil and his angels...that's all God's business )
I 100% believe that it was God Himself who changed my mind about the salvation of mankind. I did not want to change from what I 'comfortably' believed and what I had been taught. I argued and agonized before God for 10 months.
It was a huge, agonizing, scary moment when I said to the Lord..okay, you win, I can't fight it any more.
Since that day in the mid 1980's I have believed that the blood of Jesus was and is all powerful. Powerful enough to pay the price for the Hitlers, Judas's, etc etc
I do believe in God's power. "And that every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God!"
"He that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

I do believe in a time of outer darkness...I do believe in the cleansing fire...
I do believe all our works will be tried by fire...I do believe a price will be paid by those who did/do not walk in the love. ( and that has everything to do with works, not our initial salvation )
I do not believe that 95% of all humans who have ever lived on this earth, end up in some hell fire for ever and ever.

Just as we see three areas in the Tabernacle, just as we see three levels of floors in Noah's Ark...and just as Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you".. And many other patterns in scripture...Heaven will not be one level.
Paul clearly talks about 'running this race to obtain and Rewards and blessings.
Which has nothing at all to do with salvation, but everything to do with the test of fire on our works.....and hearing the " Thou good and faithful servant" and just like in the parable of the talents...each had a different amount talent and each did different things with what they had been given them as stewards...it will be about how we did or didn't 'work the works of Him who called us.'

I am not expecting you to understand how I believe things...neither do I try to persuade anyone else to believe as I believe. That's God's business not mine.
But unless God spoke audible to me...I am 'at this time' unshakable. Neither do I usually "argue the point"..because it is a total waste of time.

 

[APAK]

ByGrace: you are safe and secure, as I am, on the subject of the unpardonable sin.

A bit of scripture and context.

(Mat 12:22) Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw.
(Mat 12:23) And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?”
(Mat 12:24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”
(Mat 12:25) Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand.
(Mat 12:26) And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
(Mat 12:27) And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.
(Mat 12:28) But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
(Mat 12:29) Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.
(Mat 12:30) Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
(Mat 12:31) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
(Mat 12:32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (ALL ESV)

The Pharisees committed the unpardonable sin when they heard that miracles performed by the spirit of God or God’s presence, through the spirit of Jesus our Christ. They accused Jesus of being demon-possessed. This really meant, the spirit of God was a spirit of a demon. This is de-basing and degrading the power of God and it is unpardonable.

Anyone would REALLY believe, what the Pharisees believed concerning what is the spirit of God and trashes his Spirit and his love for mankind shall be never forgiven, ever. I can see several groups fitting this bill.

True believers cannot commit the unforgivable sin.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[DPMartin]

Well , we will each have to answer for what we believe.
I know what I believe. As yet, God has not caused a change of mind for me concerning salvation of man.
For my first 20 years with God I believed as you do ( I don't care about the Devil and his angels...that's all God's business )
I 100% believe that it was God Himself who changed my mind about the salvation of mankind. I did not want to change from what I 'comfortably' believed and what I had been taught. I argued and agonized before God for 10 months.
It was a huge, agonizing, scary moment when I said to the Lord..okay, you win, I can't fight it any more.
Since that day in the mid 1980's I have believed that the blood of Jesus was and is all powerful. Powerful enough to pay the price for the Hitlers, Judas's, etc etc
I do believe in God's power. "And that every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God!"
"He that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

I do believe in a time of outer darkness...I do believe in the cleansing fire...
I do believe all our works will be tried by fire...I do believe a price will be paid by those who did/do not walk in the love. ( and that has everything to do with works, not our initial salvation )
I do not believe that 95% of all humans who have ever lived on this earth, end up in some hell fire for ever and ever.

Just as we see three areas in the Tabernacle, just as we see three levels of floors in Noah's Ark...and just as Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you".. And many other patterns in scripture...Heaven will not be one level.
Paul clearly talks about 'running this race to obtain and Rewards and blessings.
Which has nothing at all to do with salvation, but everything to do with the test of fire on our works.....and hearing the " Thou good and faithful servant" and just like in the parable of the talents...each had a different amount talent and each did different things with what they had been given them as stewards...it will be about how we did or didn't 'work the works of Him who called us.'

I am not expecting you to understand how I believe things...neither do I try to persuade anyone else to believe as I believe. That's God's business not mine.
But unless God spoke audible to me...I am 'at this time' unshakable. Neither do I usually "argue the point"..because it is a total waste of time.

well that's a dangerous position, just because you're correct about what you think, doesn't mean what you think is correct. and its the Lord that is correct. and if you don't honor that, how can you claim to be in "unity" with Christ if what you want to believe supersedes what the Lord God says.

 

[Helen]

well that's a dangerous position, just because you're correct about what you think, doesn't mean what you think is correct. and its the Lord that is correct. and if you don't honor that, how can you claim to be in "unity" with Christ if what you want to believe supersedes what the Lord God says.

Dangerous place to be?!! I think not.

Oh I know your position...and I am sure that you and a thousand other truly believe that you are correct.
I believe that our walk with Father is a heart thing, not a doctrine thing.

I trust Him.

God bless you.

 

[twinc]

Dangerous place to be?!! I think not.

Oh I know your position...and I am sure that you and a thousand other truly believe that you are correct.
I believe that our walk with Father is a heart thing, not a doctrine thing.

I trust Him.

God bless you.

no, no but alas and sadly you do not really know or realise what YOU ARE ACTUALLY SAYING AND ACCEPTING
is that your walk with Father is a heart thing - this is emotional and heart over head and is nowhere recommended and is a most dangerous place to be - twinc

 

[twinc]

no, no but alas and sadly you do not really know or realise what YOU ARE ACTUALLY SAYING AND ACCEPTING
is that your walk with Father is a heart thing - this is emotional and heart over head and is nowhere recommended and is a most dangerous place to be or recommend to others imho - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

Well , we will each have to answer for what we believe.
I know what I believe. As yet, God has not caused a change of mind for me concerning salvation of man.
For my first 20 years with God I believed as you do ( I don't care about the Devil and his angels...that's all God's business )
I 100% believe that it was God Himself who changed my mind about the salvation of mankind. I did not want to change from what I 'comfortably' believed and what I had been taught. I argued and agonized before God for 10 months.
It was a huge, agonizing, scary moment when I said to the Lord..okay, you win, I can't fight it any more.
Since that day in the mid 1980's I have believed that the blood of Jesus was and is all powerful. Powerful enough to pay the price for the Hitlers, Judas's, etc etc
I do believe in God's power. "And that every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God!"
"He that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

I do believe in a time of outer darkness...I do believe in the cleansing fire...
I do believe all our works will be tried by fire...I do believe a price will be paid by those who did/do not walk in the love. ( and that has everything to do with works, not our initial salvation )
I do not believe that 95% of all humans who have ever lived on this earth, end up in some hell fire for ever and ever.

Just as we see three areas in the Tabernacle, just as we see three levels of floors in Noah's Ark...and just as Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you".. And many other patterns in scripture...Heaven will not be one level.
Paul clearly talks about 'running this race to obtain and Rewards and blessings.
Which has nothing at all to do with salvation, but everything to do with the test of fire on our works.....and hearing the " Thou good and faithful servant" and just like in the parable of the talents...each had a different amount talent and each did different things with what they had been given them as stewards...it will be about how we did or didn't 'work the works of Him who called us.'

I am not expecting you to understand how I believe things...neither do I try to persuade anyone else to believe as I believe. That's God's business not mine.
But unless God spoke audible to me...I am 'at this time' unshakable. Neither do I usually "argue the point"..because it is a total waste of time.

Hi BG
This sounds like universalism.
Are you? Just curious.

 

[Helen]

Hi BG
This sounds like universalism.
Are you? Just curious.

I actually have no idea what universalism is. And I hate boxes.
But if you are asking if I believe in the ultimate reconciliation of all things ...then yes.
2 Cor 5:17 "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them... ...."

Yes, and I am sure that you are not...I never mind stating where I am, but I don't 'debate' it..it is just what I believe that God has shown to me...and he did it in-spite of all the scripture which pops into our minds.. ..I wrestled with God over those too. He won.

 

[GodsGrace]

I actually have no idea what universalism is. And I hate boxes.
But if you are asking if I believe in the ultimate reconciliation of all things ...then yes.
2 Cor 5:17 "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them... ...."

Yes, and I am sure that you are not...I never mind stating where I am, but I don't 'debate' it..it is just what I believe that God has shown to me...and he did it in-spite of all the scripture which pops into our minds.. ..I wrestled with God over those too. He won.

I don't like debating concepts that have nothing to do with salvation.
Although I don't believe universalism is correct, a person could believe it and still be saved.

 

[Helen]

I have never checked out what they believe. Knowing me, I probably don't fit any box!! I try not to.

 

[DPMartin]

Dangerous place to be?!! I think not.

Oh I know your position...and I am sure that you and a thousand other truly believe that you are correct.
I believe that our walk with Father is a heart thing, not a doctrine thing.

I trust Him.

God bless you.

no I don't think I am correct, I know the Lord is correct. in trusting what He says and not what I want to believe I can be corrected, because I know the Lord Jesus the Word of God is correct.

you know you are correct about what you think and believe, therefore that is what you trust and makes it near imposable for someone of that position to be corrected in the Word of God.




Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[APAK]

no, no but alas and sadly you do not really know or realise what YOU ARE ACTUALLY SAYING AND ACCEPTING
is that your walk with Father is a heart thing - this is emotional and heart over head and is nowhere recommended and is a most dangerous place to be - twinc

twinc:
I see you are quick to sarcastically be concerned about a precarious position or basis that someone is taking regarding the destiny of unbelievers, at least. Then how about sharing your view on this particular topic?

APAK

 

[Helen]

the difference between you and me. you know you are correct about what you think and believe, and I know the Lord Jesus the Word of God is correct.

Then it shows that you don't really read posts.
Any one who reads my posts knows that I have said a hundred and ten times.
"What I hold, I hold lightly, and my prayer is always that I have a teachable spirit."

You say- " I know that the Lord is correct.."
The interpretation to that is- " I am confident that what I believe the scripture to be saying is always 100% correct. "

Go for it!
Time will tell.

 

[aspen]

no I don't think I am correct, I know the Lord is correct. that is the difference between you and me. you know you are correct about what you think and believe, and I know the Lord Jesus the Word of God is correct.

So you have a perfect understand of everything related to God? Wow! You must be one of a kind!