Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

[Phil .]

Phil, from my own time spent in reading out the bible, or even put effort in to studying.

You say that Jesus did not say them though, just me...
Jesus can not come back in a future as that would be impossible,
There nothing experience in the future after death?

Yes, nothing as in not a thing / no experience of any thing.
Same as now.

What do you mean there is no future, or no experience of a future.

In accordance with thought(s) it can seem like there is. In accordance with direct experience there is not.
This is not a concept or philosophy etc. One can attempt to go to a future now to discover the actuality of the present.

When you say the second coming is now. Do you mean like for modern day?

I mean literally right now. Biblical references to the second coming may have been interpreted as an outer experience which could happen in a future. That aspect or component may have been added only in the interpretations, making them essentially reinterpretations.

And of course, people are free to believe, and choose to believe and act by their own choices and decisions to seek out Yahava, and everyone just about has access to a bible, but there is more than just the bible, there is the universe, the sky, the rain, the sun, the moon, the animals, and of course in one of the Old testament books, Ecc, it is written by the writer that God had made man, similar to the animals in that we all pass away, there is no escape until one lays their head to rest. Yahava uses those who allow the holy spirit, and the spirit of Christ to move and come through to show agape love, (1Corinthians13). A love which is heavenly, and with a faith which has confidence is what has been show in and through the words of the bible, that Yahava is love, fire, spirit, God above all gods.

Another question of What comes to my mind is what leaves the body, the life (soul - mind/will.emotions) in that body is gone from here?

Nothing leaves the body as nothing is presently inside of bodies. I can certainly appreciate this statement might initially be a doozy… but that which is eternal, which words like spirit & soul point to, and the body as well… is not inside of any thing at all. The entire experience, universe, body, thoughts, all ‘things’ etc… is within that which is eternal, and is now (and ‘always’) present. As in the present as in the gift, that which is sought, fulfillment, wholeness, completeness.

 

[Phil .]

You're funny.

Really though… no one knows what heaven looks like… and nearly everyone assumes this isn’t it. If what heaven is or looks like is in all honesty unknown, then it can’t actually be known that this is not heaven.

 

[Cassandra]

Is this what the Spirit of God revealed to you in the last 20 minutes? You can say with absolute certainty that this is what He said to you to say to me, You are getting Satanic revelations!

You are blessed if you read Revelation aloud or hear it
Rev1:1 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

 

[Jack]

Really though… no one knows what heaven looks like… and nearly everyone assumes this isn’t it. If what heaven is or looks like is in all honesty unknown, then it can’t actually be known that this is not heaven.

If this is heaven what does Hell look like?

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, nothing as in not a thing / no experience of any thing.
Same as now.

Okay, I won’t argue with about your idea.

In accordance with thought(s) it can seem like there is. In accordance with direct experience there is not.
This is not a concept or philosophy etc. One can attempt to go to a future now to discover the actuality of the present.

Alright, it seems to me like an idea or concept for anyone who has a mind set on it being that way.

I mean literally right now. Biblical references to the second coming may have been interpreted as an outer experience which could happen in a future.

Maybe.

That aspect or component may have been added only in the interpretations, making them essentially reinterpretations.

Is the Holy Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ can lead to truth rather than a faulty interpretation that is convoluted and sets others in bondage.

Would you say the Bible is just a fake book or useless? It doesn’t seem to me nothing matters from your own perspective.

Nothing leaves the body as nothing is presently inside of bodies. I can certainly appreciate this statement might initially be a doozy… but that which is eternal, which words like spirit & soul point to, and the body as well… is not inside of any thing at all. The entire experience, universe, body, thoughts, all ‘things’ etc… is within that which is eternal, and is now (and ‘always’) present. As in the present as in the gift, that which is sought, fulfillment, wholeness, completeness.

Okay Phil, thank you for expressing and sharing what you have with me. The body and the soul are different, to me personally. When my blood stops flowing it’s just an end of a mean; what is the hope or expectation to those who have the thought patterns as though; no hope, no future, seemingly no peace to me.

Not sure if you desire to share more or not; however before going again, Thank you for your conversation maybe next again we will.

 

[Spyder]

Worth repeating in order to cause us to think:

A missionary visited the outer most reaches of Alaska. There he happened on a small Inuit village.

The first person he saw was working on nets,because the village trade was fishing and seal hunting.

Being a young man filled with zeal for the Lord he approached the man and began sharing the Gospel.

Afterward,the Inuit,who never ceased his labors on the nets, asked the young zealous missionary, if I never heard of your Jesus, would I still go to Hell?

The missionary replied, of course not. Not if you had never heard of Jesus.

The Inuit stops working, turns to the man and asks, then why did you tell me?

 

[Phil .]

If this is heaven what does Hell look like?

There isn’t a hell (as in place) / hell is the belief (and accompanying suffering) that this isn’t heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

Worth repeating in order to cause us to think:

A missionary visited the outer most reaches of Alaska. There he happened on a small Inuit village.

The first person he saw was working on nets,because the village trade was fishing and seal hunting.

Being a young man filled with zeal for the Lord he approached the man and began sharing the Gospel.

Afterward,the Inuit,who never ceased his labors on the nets, asked the young zealous missionary, if I never heard of your Jesus, would I still go to Hell?

The missionary replied, of course not. Not if you had never heard of Jesus.

The Inuit stops working, turns to the man and asks, then why did you tell me?

Spyder,
I think missionary work is a waste of time. I tend to find those who generally teach from the bible, with using scripture with scripture, perhaps by the abiding in the vine, one will find a rewardingly spiritual life with God. Missionary work, or "Getting people to say Jesus, and they are saved right then!", "Oh praise God, we had 15 people say the prayer with us and they were saved cause they said the name Jesus!"

While all people who decide to work with God, allowing him to work in and through them willingly, anything from the spirit, or anything from the world that protrudes from our heart, that is how one can tell where they are in their relationship with Yahava. Because it's the truth that sets people free, being saved from the darkness into the light, free from bondage, and free of anyone who may suggest they have all the answers to your question without ever telling you to go find out yourself.

 

[Phil .]

Okay, I won’t argue with about your idea.

It isn’t even necessary to presume or frame experience as a you and your idea or arguing. This is so free This can, but it leaves meat on the bone as to what resonates interpretational wise. Having said that, for whatever it’s worth… nothing is not & can not be an idea. It isn’t possible because nothing is not a thing, as in an object, and the finite mind can not conceive infinite. Only finite images, such as of objects, sounds, concepts, etc. Another way to put it, nothing can’t be thunk… why? ‘It’s’ already This, appearing as so called thoughts.

Alright, it seems to me like an idea or concept for anyone who has a mind set on it being that way.

Humbling or liberating or triggering as it might potentially be to hear (idk, up to you) - that is a concept or idea (directly experienced). What it isn’t, is what it claims. I can say there is literally no one here, which has a mind set on anything. That there isn’t “a screen” in your direct experience in actuality, only perception and the thought ‘screen’… and what does the message amount to? Heard, or not. Received, or not. Allowed, or not. Always, always, always… up to you to see. If interested.

Maybe.

Is the Holy Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ can lead to truth rather than a faulty interpretation that is convoluted and sets others in bondage.

I do not mean any disrespect. I hope you receive that as is. I really don’t.
But, and of course a but is coming… but perhaps what is thought to lead to truth, is in actuality, what obscures truth - if in fact truth is already the case, as in the Kingdom is (already) among you or in your midst. Maybe, just maybe, there is no way to get to, This, and This is Self-evident, and perhaps in some ways, obscured. Maybe This is more uncovered, than a destination outside of, beyond or other than This. Maybe heaven isn’t somewhere else, some other place, some other time.

Would you say the Bible is just a fake book or useless?

No definitely not. As teachers, prophets, sermons, speakers etc etc go, in my opinion there is the words of Jesus….. and then anyone and everyone else as a pretty distant second. What I’ve found subjectively from looking into things, is one must sift & sort through A LOT of reinterpretations with a lot of very subtle misinterpretations to essentially ‘get back to’ what Jesus said in the first place. While it’s just ‘two cents’, opinion, it seems to me this is what’s going on with churches by & large in terms of attendance. My ideal is churches situation would be to skinny the entire church experience & content shared - to only what Jesus said.

It doesn’t seem to me nothing matters from your own perspective.

If nothing matters, and this is nothing mattering, there is no ‘my own perspective’.
Or rather, This (without any interpretation added) is one, the, perspective.
It’s like looking through a looking glass and there seems to be “reality”.
And see what a slippery slippery slope interpretation is?
That was one already.
But it arose in the one perspective.
Always the one unchanging perspective as in that-there-is-this-perspective… without literally countless possible interpretations arising.

 

[MatthewG]

@Phil . I am just a man exchanging and expressing thoughts and ideas back toward you. There is no disrespect given to you, you have you views you have and it’s okay. Thank you for sharing and having a conversational experience with me personally. Not that anything that I may present will change anyone’s mind. It’s Yahava who changes our mind when we are renewing our mind in the things pertaining towards Faith and love. I may just not be able to understand your own intellectual arguments, and there is always something people can debate about, I don’t care about debates anymore; in the hindsight all people can think and choose for themselves in the end they will still be responsible for the life they live. I believe people are entitled to their views, perspectives by and through their experiences they go through in life, and the one for me to point to is the answer: Yeshua. Perhaps I need to go back and start working again like it once was, before the world choked me out again.

Appreciate you

 

[Phil .]

Okay Phil, thank you for expressing and sharing what you have with me. The body and the soul are different, to me personally. When my blood stops flowing it’s just an end of a mean; what is the hope or expectation to those who have the thought patterns as though; no hope, no future, seemingly no peace to me.

Not sure if you desire to share more or not; however before going again, Thank you for your conversation maybe next again we will.

Thank you as well. Really enjoyable discussion, thank you.

What I’ve found, so to speak…

There’s an experience of thoughts about a self, which isn’t and can not possibly actually be, me. Why? Because there is awareness of, prior to, all thoughts. So I must be that which no thought can define, but which is nonetheless aware, and therein, Is.

The self referencing thoughts come & go. That which is aware is not coming & going.

It is those thoughts, or perhaps the not noticing & believing of those thoughts, which obscures the reality of, that which is aware.

What keeps those thought patterns going, is the involvement of feeling / emotion.

This can much more readily be communicated in conversation, as is nearly impossible by text / screen, but here’s the simplest example I can come up with.


(1) I’m scared.

As compared to:

(2) I’m experiencing the emotion fear. Or, I’m feeling fear.


(1) is a thought about a self, and I’m aware of the thought. So that self the thought is about can’t really be me.
(1) involves feeling / emotion; fear, conceptualized as ‘scared’, on behalf of that self - which isn’t a self, and is actually only a thought.

(2) is different in that it doesn’t refer to a self of thought(s). And doesn’t conceptualize fear on behalf of a self of thoughts.


That ‘land’ or make any sense?

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you as well. Really enjoyable discussion, thank you.

What I’ve found, so to speak…

There’s an experience of thoughts about a self, which isn’t and can not possibly actually be, me. Why? Because there is awareness of, prior to, all thoughts. So I must be that which no thought can define, but which is nonetheless aware, and therein, Is.

The self referencing thoughts come & go. That which is aware is not coming & going.

It is those thoughts, or perhaps the not noticing & believing of those thoughts, which obscures the reality of, that which is aware.

What keeps those thought patterns going, is the involvement of feeling / emotion.

This can much more readily be communicated in conversation, as is nearly impossible by text / screen, but here’s the simplest example I can come up with.


(1) I’m scared.

As compared to:

(2) I’m experiencing the emotion fear. Or, I’m feeling fear.


(1) is a thought about a self, and I’m aware of the thought. So that self the thought is about can’t really be me.
(1) involves feeling / emotion; fear, conceptualized as ‘scared’, on behalf of that self - which isn’t a self, and is actually only a thought.

(2) is different in that it doesn’t refer to a self of thought(s). And doesn’t conceptualize fear on behalf of a self of thoughts.


That ‘land’ or make any sense?

It depends on if you’re scitzophrenic or not. I believe that mental illness still effects lifestyle and as well as mental retardation related clients are effected depending on a wide variety of circumstances and factors and can be medicated with medications but has side effects.

I don’t think to much in what you are speaking on. At one time I believed I was God myself, and I bend and create my own reality.

The reality of truth to me is that, my name is Matthew. That is name of my Soul when I was born. I faithfully believe all mankind was created in the image of God and that is the soul within you. Your mind, will, and emotions.

Trauma, Mental illness, Life experiences, all play a role on an effect to the soul; but the soul also learns and is given the World itself.

I can think and have thoughts and ideas that are naturally from myself, I can also have thoughts and ideas of myself in the aspect of how Gods sees you, with love.

You have a good outline here that people might find useful to use, about the self awareness you are talking about.


Through my life, I have been told to have bipolar, and schizophrenia; use to take medications but don’t anymore. There are times through addiction, the sayings of “I am stupid; useless, greedy, dirty, hateful, selfish” those episodes are because of the general reality of my greed within my soul (mind/will/emotions).

Natural anxiety is there but also it can be lessened in and through trial and error; just asking questions and understanding and trying to learn from others as you learn and grow to know who one is a person knowing that they are a loved and cared for; even the addicted. By help of the spirit in my opinion. The more one leans and goes and grows closer to God just because they love him there is nothing wrongdoing in this, and loving others as themselves despite disposition.

 

[Phil .]

It depends on if you’re scitzophrenic or not. I believe that mental illness still effects lifestyle and as well as mental retardation related clients are effected depending on a wide variety of circumstances and factors and can be medicated with medications but has side effects.

I don’t think to much in what you are speaking on. At one time I believed I was God myself, and I bend and create my own reality.

The reality of truth to me is that, my name is Matthew. That is name of my Soul when I was born. I faithfully believe all mankind was created in the image of God and that is the soul within you. Your mind, will, and emotions.

Trauma, Mental illness, Life experiences, all play a role on an effect to the soul; but the soul also learns and is given the World itself.

I can think and have thoughts and ideas that are naturally from myself, I can also have thoughts and ideas of myself in the aspect of how Gods sees you, with love.

You have a good outline here that people might find useful to use, about the self awareness you are talking about.


Through my life, I have been told to have bipolar, and schizophrenia; use to take medications but don’t anymore. There are times through addiction, the sayings of “I am stupid; useless, greedy, dirty, hateful, selfish” those episodes are because of the general reality of my greed within my soul (mind/will/emotions).

Natural anxiety is there but also it can be lessened in and through trial and error; just asking questions and understanding and trying to learn from others as you learn and grow to know who one is a person knowing that they are a loved and cared for; even the addicted. By help of the spirit in my opinion. The more one leans and goes and grows closer to God just because they love him there is nothing wrongdoing in this, and loving others as themselves despite disposition.

Much appreciated, but to clarify, I’m not talking about self awareness.
‘When I was born’ is like ‘I’m scared’. (Just to be clear, I don’t mean you’re scared, I mean as it pertains to the previous 1 & 2 example).
There is no I which is scared, just as there is no I which was born. Likewise, I’m not suggesting you (or anyone) are God.
In accordance with thoughts or the content of thoughts, there are these.
In direct experience, there isn’t.

 

[Jack]

There isn’t a hell (as in place) / hell is the belief (and accompanying suffering) that this isn’t heaven.

Matthew 5:22
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Phil .]

Matthew 5:22
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Yes, suffering. The judge feels the discord, or ‘burn’ of judging. Like with the flaming sword.

 

[Jack]

Yes, suffering. The judge feels the discord, or ‘burn’ of judging. Like with the flaming sword.

Hell will be filled with Bible choppers!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: