Very big GAP in the trinity

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DNB

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On a forum that is based on "Christian Theology," we begin with the idea of the Trinity, and we predicate our arguments on the assumption that Jesus was and is God. So you're really on the wrong forum.

That being said, I'm always interested in engaging any question, Christian or not. The argument that an omnipotent God can be revealed in the limited sphere of the world and in the limited sphere of humanity is not unthinkable, except for those who try to impose their own human thoughts on what God can or cannot do. Logically, an infinite God can reveal Himself in finite forms. That is the very basis of the word of God, that God's ideas can be expressed in the limited language of man.
Your predicates are entirely presumptuous. The transcendent God, cannot become non-transcendent. The omnipresent God, cannot be circumscribed in space and time. The immaterial, immutable and holy God, cannot become corporeal, subject to change, physical corruption and decay (eg: He did not mature in spirit, nor defecate in the latrine).
Every attribute that defines divinity, is antithetical to that which delineates humanity.
You are predicating that due to our finite minds, anything is possible with God. And that, Randy, is the extent of the 'profundity' of your frivolous remark, ...which is entirely fallacious and subversive.
The utter redundancy of having 3 all powerful beings, where each individually can create and maintain an entire universe, answer all the prayers to all the inhabitants of the earth, execute all providential necessities and interact continuously with His creation, etc..., should've fundamentally exposed the initial folly in predicating a 3-in-1 godhead.
Not to mention the futility and absurdity of the Atonement, the void of Biblical attestation, the utter confusion that it elicits within its adherents and proponents, etc...
The disregard and oblivion to all these red flags is inexcusable.
 
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Truther

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Luk 1:41, And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luk 1:42, And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luk 1:43, And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
That says God was passing through her ovaries?

Or, that God made a baby by fertilizing her her egg cell?
 

101G

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more fallacious statements. there is no 1/3 of God.
fine, now answer my question is the person in John 1:3 the same person in Isaiah 44:24 who "MADE ALL THINGS", yes or no?

thanks in advance for your answer.

PICJAG.
 

Truther

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Not true its taught in several passages in Scripture. YHWH said in the OT that He would come and dwell among His people.
You should believe the Scriptures not what you have been taught by others who have mislead you.

Zech 2:8-13
For this is what the Lord Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you — for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye — 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.
10 "Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the Lord. 11 "Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The Lord will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the Lord, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."

Jer 23:5-6
"The days are coming," declares the Lord,
"when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The Lord Our Righteousness
.


Is 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isa 9:6-7
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

Mic 5:2
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity."

Dan 7:9-14
I kept looking Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow,
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 "A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
11 "Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.
13 "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Mal 3:1-3
"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the Lord of hosts. 2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 "And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord offerings in righteousness.

Mal 4:5-6
"Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."

Zech 12:1-10
This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the Lord. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.'

6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

7 "The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Matt 1:22-24
22 Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

hope this helps !!!
Not a word of what you posted teaches the Spirit God became human.

Not even a smidgin of the Spirit God became human.

It all speaks about a human son with God inside him.....


This is how God was with them per Matt 1....


19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Not this....

19 To wit, that God was OMIT Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 

101G

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justbyfaith said: [URL='https://www.christianityboard.com/goto/post?id=822739#post-822739']↑[/URL]
@Truther,

Do you agree with holy scripture that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5)?

Even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

Now see my post above.


Yes and yes.

The Father was inside the son
.

well let's see if there is a separate and distinct person as "Father", as also "Son. maybe you can help these fellas out. if there is a separate person that is the Father, please answer me this what i asked Christophany, and it will resolve any Father and Son as separate persons.

Is the Person at John 1:3 the same one Person at Isaiah 44:24 yes or no.

PICJAG.
 

DNB

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I've been on 2 forums, among others, over the last 20 years. One was unmoderated, and the other moderated. I've never seen where there was a consensus that the Trinity is not a major element in Christian orthodoxy. Arianism is a heresy. Docetism is a heresy.

Now, if you're talking about Oneness Theology, you do have a point. There have been a number of otherwise-orthodox Christians, in modern times, who believe in Modalism, or Sabellionism. However, most of those who believe that Jesus was not God are Unitarians or the like.

I'm not speaking as a moderator, nor did I claim to do so. I was speaking my opinion, and I stand by it. To state that Jesus was not God is *not* Christian orthodoxy, and does not, in my opinion, belong on a Christian Theology forum if that forum is doctrinallly orthodox.

As to how the Bible itself frames the importance of the Trinitarian argument, I would agree that the word "Trinity" is not mentioned. But the importance of Jesus' Deity is illustrated by such statements *Jesus himself made* stating that he and his Father were "one."

Forgiveness for humanity is predicated on the deity of Christ. Christ had to be God forgiving humanity, and not God operating through a flawed human agent, nor even through a supposedly perfect human agent.

It had to be *God Himself* forgiving humanity because it was God against whom sin is defined, and therefore God who must forgive sin. Furthermore, unless God is the one intervening on behalf of sinful humanity, God is unable to give His Spirit, and our New Nature, as the basis of our salvation. Jesus, as strictly a man, could not do that.
Nothing that you said was viable, it was entirely frivolous and absurd. Jesus atoned for man due entirely for his perfection. He had to be a perfect sacrifice in order to abrogate the Old Covenant, and to reveal how God's demand upon man were not excessively austere. ie. Adam was truly guilty, and God's Levitical Law would not fall by the wayside uncompleted. But, perfection requires not only obedience, but also 100% love and devotion to God. None of this God can do Himself.
God did not obey Himself, love Himself, nor raise Himself from the dead, in order to absolve man for their sins.
Randy, you have made absolutely no sense in anything that you have said, in defense of this ridiculousness.
 

101G

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Is the Person at John 1:3 the same one Person at Isaiah 44:24 yes or no.

this is not a hard question to answer, only a little math is involved. maybe i can help you fellas out, why not try to use Colossians 1:16 to try and explain away the question.... :eek: ... (smile).....

PICJAG.
 

101G

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there is no 1/3 of God.
well the first break through. just as there is no 1/3 person of God, likewise there is no three separate and distinct persons of God either.

well we got to start somewhere. so my question still stand, "Is the Person at John 1:3 the same one Person at Isaiah 44:24 yes or no".

PICJAG.
 

Taken

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Do you need a lecture on not forming a religion on one verse.


I Purposed no such thing. I make a statement, I give A supporting Scripture....Do you require me to Quote Every single Scripture that Is reletive to the point....am I expected to go search all the Scriptures FOR YOU or ANYONE? Eh no.
If you do not care, why should I care FOR you.
If you are not open to following the ORDER and facts as they were revealed....I have done all that is necessary...told you, showed, you. Not my obligation to search for you, or convince you, or Understand for you.

Tahen
 

Taken

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Grailhunter-
Do you hate your mother and father? Is it really an option for you to sell your daughter into concubinage?

Is that relevant to Jesus Not being a Human man?

Taken
 

Taken

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Grailhunter
The whole storyline is about the Son of God delivered by a woman.

Then your Storyline is fantasy.
(That's as silly as saying Maryanne Trump delivered The President of the United States.)

Mary delivered a Son of man.

Taken
 

Taken

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Grailhunter-

QUOTE] The question I have is, do you have problems with women. [/QUOTE]

Ha. Are you a Socialist? Twice now you have tried to deflect from the point with a negative implication toward me.
That is a Socalists old worn out tactic, when their own words are not supported with facts.

Taken
 

historyb

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There has never been a time Christ was not God. He was God before the incranation, during His time on earth, and after the Resurrection. Christ was and is always God
 
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Taken

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Grailhunter-

Christ could have appeared full grown on a mountain, if He was just of God.

Well, no that is False.
First of all it was Not Christ who Appeared.
Stay in the Truth.
It was the Word of God that Appeared, in a fashion men could See.
(Guess you skipped the OT of men begging TO SEE God. Perhaps you do not Know, a natural Human man would be be instantly Burned up to look at God!)
Pretty handy and ingenious God Prepared A Body for WHEN His Word would come into the world...and corrupt human men could See Him!

And no...again, it was necessary for Him to Appear as A Jewish man in the line of king David.

Heb 2
[17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren...

Taken
 

Taken

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Grailhunter-

But no no...the theme is God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That means something different than....

God declared WHAT, the Relationship would Between God in Heaven and His Word on Earth in a Prepared Body...
Already gave that Scripture too.

Hey a God took a trip to earth!

Well? Sort of...not A God but God Himself did, so what? It was a promise God made and God fulfilled.

Did you notice...men were failing at spreading Gods Word?

A mystery...but ya God Purposed in Himself...how He would seek out the Jews...and then how He caused a WAY for Gentiles to hear the Word of God...

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed in himself:

Taken
 
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Taken

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Grailhunter-

There is a sense of sacrifice that He gave His own Son.

What exactly was sacrificed was "The Body prepared" for His Word...

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

His Form "of God" was Not Sacrificed.
His Spirit was not Sacrificed.
His Soul was Not Sacrificed.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Then you got those that believe that God so loved the world that He went to earth and was crucified!

Gods Words was sent to Earth in a Prepared Body and was Crucified.

"You" have a Body of Dust out of the Earth that you can sacrifice, give to The Lord God, be Bodily crucified with out suffering Physical Death.

Mysteries do not only apply to God, He provides mysterious things for men also.
We don't need to rewrite Gods mysteries, so they make sense to our natural Carnal minds.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Taken
 
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Taken

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Not a lot of what you are saying makes any sense and I have tried to explain it as simply as I can.
I am not the guy to talk circles and non-sense to.
If you want to talk about a topic, pick one and talk straight.

Ok ...Read your posts, I just answered all your no nonsense!!! Eh!

I was on one Topic...Is Jesus A Human man, as men say?

Or did Jesus come forth out from God, in the Likeness AS A man, as Scripture says?

Taken
 

Grailhunter

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Grailhunter-



Well, no that is False.
First of all it was Not Christ who Appeared.
Stay in the Truth.
It was the Word of God that Appeared, in a fashion men could See.
(Guess you skipped the OT of men begging TO SEE God. Perhaps you do not Know, a natural Human man would be be instantly Burned up to look at God!)
Pretty handy and ingenious God Prepared A Body for WHEN His Word would come into the world...and corrupt human men could See Him!

And no...again, it was necessary for Him to Appear as A Jewish man in the line of king David.

Heb 2
Grailhunter-



God declared WHAT, the Relationship would Between God in Heaven and His Word on Earth in a Prepared Body...
Already gave that Scripture too.



Well? Sort of...not A God but God Himself did, so what? It was a promise God made and God fulfilled.

Did you notice...men were failing at spreading Gods Word?

A mystery...but ya God Purposed in Himself...how He would seek out the Jews...and then how He caused a WAY for Gentiles to hear the Word of God...

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed in himself:

Taken

[17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren...

Taken
Well Ok I disagree, I believe God had a Son and it a repeating theme through the NT unless you are referencing a Jehovah's Wittiness Bible.

Grailhunter-



God declared WHAT, the Relationship would Between God in Heaven and His Word on Earth in a Prepared Body...
Already gave that Scripture too.



Well? Sort of...not A God but God Himself did, so what? It was a promise God made and God fulfilled.

Did you notice...men were failing at spreading Gods Word?

A mystery...but ya God Purposed in Himself...how He would seek out the Jews...and then how He caused a WAY for Gentiles to hear the Word of God...

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed in himself:

Taken
Well you are all over the place again.
God the Father....so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son....not Himself. The Son is the Word and did nothing by His will alone but that of His Father's will....The Father is greater than I. God the Father gave certain authority to the Son but that is something that happens between two persons....a giver and a receiver. Christ ascended to the Father and sits on a throne to the Father's right. Christ was not talking to Himself in the garden when He asked the Father to take this cup from Him. But added not by His will but the Father's. Two persons talking and two wills defined.
 

Grailhunter

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Grailhunter-



What exactly was sacrificed was "The Body prepared" for His Word...

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

His Form "of God" was Not Sacrificed.
His Spirit was not Sacrificed.
His Soul was Not Sacrificed.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:



Gods Words was sent to Earth in a Prepared Body and was Crucified.

"You" have a Body of Dust out of the Earth that you can sacrifice, give to The Lord God, be Bodily crucified with out suffering Physical Death.

Mysteries do not only apply to God, He provides mysterious things for men also.
We don't need to rewrite Gods mysteries, so they make sense to our natural Carnal minds.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Taken
Christ had a body that suffered and a body that bleed. And that body died.