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Davy
Well-Known Member
This probably won't... help you out, since you're more determined to listen to men's leaven doctrines instead of Apostle Paul here...
Gal 5:16-21
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV
Men's false OSAS doctrines preach that we no longer have need to ask Jesus forgiveness, because we no longer have sin. Paul in the above shows different, and that last part he said (in red bold) is very... serious about those who fall away and walk by their flesh, thinking they don't have sin anymore!
Forget about my “ attitude”—— explain how OSAS is false in light of this quote by Jesus Himself—- the Originator and Chief Proponent Of OSAS....explain how “ Never “ does not really mean Never....” Those That Believe In Me Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”.....explain it—— you can’t. End of debate.
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All verses like these that “ seem” to make the case that a Believer can lose his or her Salvation have one of two problems.....they are either verses taken out of context or verses not addressing Believers.....the above verses are describing Gospel Rejectors, because if you Believe the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4 , Jesus has declared you Saved forever.....the Faith in Him accomplished that—-NOT ones ability to conquer the sins of the flesh.....ALL of my sins are under the Blood—- God does not even remember them anymore.....” There is Now No Condemnation” for those who put their Trust in Jesus to Save them....
Peter “ denied Him” three times.....he was a Cowardly Believer at that time....yet......he was STILL a Believer......There was no denial when he was the first to say that Jesus was the Christ, the Son Of The Living God....he had the Holy Spirit within him in order to believe and confess that before men....
Somebody that never ONCE believed ....somebody with a life- long denial of Jesus , somebody that NEVER Believed because God never sent His Spirit to them in order to have their Heart Opened to the Gospel ( as illustrated in the example of Lydia , the seller of purple in Acts ) —— THAT person has a big problem.....” Nobody comes to God , lest the Spirit draw them”—— the initiative to Save belongs to God...
On a personal note—- nice to have you back again...we disagree on some things , but I would hate it if if you ever left these Forums for good.....I though you had abandoned this place.....nice toknow that you didn’t.....hope you are having a great New Year....God Bless.....
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Then let everyone here see you deny the following warning by Apostle Paul...
Acts 20:27-31
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV
Even had examples of some falling away in Paul's day...
1 Tim 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
KJV
Apostle Paul again warning that some will... fall away...
2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV
Peter also confirmed what Paul taught about some who 'will' fall away, not maybe fall away, but will... fall away:
2 Peter 2:1-2
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
KJV
Can't just say those never believed on Jesus either, because Peter even shows they came to deny The Lord (Jesus) That bought them.
The fact that this falling away for some is to happen is part of Bible prophecy...
1 Tim 4:1-2
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV
Now go on, deny all those Scriptures by Apostles Paul and Peter, and let's see you publically do it, so others may see your disdain for The Word of God.
Oceanprayers
Active Member
Interesting.
I know when we are led to Christ that repenting of our sins is somewhat requisite.
Though I wonder if the point of that. We didn't know we were sinners when we were sinning. Then, we need tell God about what he labels sins and we're to feel sorry for doing what we didnt know was upsetting to him when God already knows everything about us. Even the number of hairs on our head.
I agree it makes no sense to constantly feel the need to repent afterward though.
Isn't the eternity of our saving suppose to cover all transgressions?
If we keep repenting of sins after we are saved, when unbeknownst to us before were condemning us before we were saved, what is that point?
Are we not saved if we don't repent of new sins after we're saved? And if we can commit new sins, now that we know what sin is, what are we saved from as repentant sinners now said to be saved by Christ?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, he was a coward trying to save his own neck. I don't recall him denying that Jesus was the Christ, or turning his back on righteousness. As you say, he remained a believer. He just got scared for himself.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Except for a short break to get Uncle Joe from Fire Lake (you know, the one who was afraid to cut the cake), I haven't left. But happy new year to you, too. How's that limb healing up?
I once started to go to Fire Lake. I was afraid to take that long shot gamble.....Coward that I am , I stayed at home and played those eights and aces......( you ain’t the only Seger fan here, you should know.....lol....)
Foot is healed—— next step......time to sue for “ pain and suffering”.....any Lawyers out there? Haha ....
All sins are on the Cross.....no need to make it so complicated........that would include willful sins, accidental sins, sins we repented of and sins we did not repent from....the only sin you need worry about is the sin of Unbelief....that one will get you damned....
I never deny any Scriptures.....Maybe I just understand them in context—- that “ context” being the entire Bible.....If any of these examples were people that were Saved and therefore in the grip of Jesus, Jesus said NOTHING could take them from His Grasp .....Jesus said that “ nothing in the Future” could take them from His Firm Hold ......if these people were Saved, these bad things would all be things that happened AFTER they were Saved—- The “ Future” , in other words......Sorry, Jesus has it covered——- None of these verses say that any of these “ Stumblers” were damned because they fell into error.....you need to get back to the drawing board....Jesus said that if you simply Believed in Him , you could NEVER come under Condemnation.....I’ll go with that.....
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I like a couple of his songs - Main Street, Turn the Page, House, Strut, Night Moves.
“ Roll Me Away” has always been my favorite......I know people that have seen him perform live more than twenty times....he is an extremely gifted songwriter/ musician......
Jesus never got the hyper grace memo that Christians need never repent - He told 4 out of 7 churches in Revelation that they had better repent, or else.
Oceanprayers
Active Member
How would we,I, be responsible for unbelief?
When there are verses that tell us,me, that natural people can't accept the spiritual things of,from, God?
While we're told God gives us faith,belief, and salvation.
VictoryinJesus
Well-Known Member
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my confusion is: there seems to be two types of repentance spoken of. repentance unto salvation (godly sorrow) not to be repented of. And repentance (worldly sorrow) unto death. 2 Corinthians 7:8-12 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. [9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought (worked) in you, (John 3:20-21) yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! (2 Corinthians 10:6) In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. [12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
Genesis 6:5-6 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Matthew 9:12-13 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
? I get it isn’t continually siting ritualistically over and over our sins but does that cancel out …a genuine repentance from the heart turning from death unto Life, turning from our own ways to His way? Same as what is quoted about repetitious prayer …does that warning of repetition make void the power or need for prayer? Significant (Imo) is “to call sinners unto repentance.” 2 Corinthians 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
No, you don't heed those Scripture evidences I showed you at all, because you favor those like what Paul said in 2 Timothy 4 about those who turn away from sound doctrine...
2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
That's exactly right. And He would have never had said that to those 5 Churches in Revelation if the OSAS doctrine were true. To have Christ's Salvation, we MUST remain steadfast in the Faith all the way to the end of this world, waiting for Him, and repent to Him when we mess up at times.
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