War in heaven

[Truth7t7]

That was Satan's desire, yes, but it didn't happen, or do you believe it did by some strange fire doctrine.

And you read this slowly.

And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

When was Christ caught up to God and His throne? It was after His crucifixion and resurrection which defeated Satan.

1 John 3:8
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

You claim satan is in Gods heaven currently, your claim is error

Satan was cast to the earth, and present at the birth of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago to devour Jesus Christ, it's that simple, hes not in heaven but earth

Revelation 12:3-4KJV
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You claim satan is in Gods heaven currently, your claim is error

Satan was cast to the earth, and present at the birth of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago to devour Jesus Christ, it's that simple, hes not in heaven but earth

Revelation 12:3-4KJV
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

You just repeated the same verse that I showed you went on further. You are ignoring the rest of the passage.

What I am going by is that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Where, if not to God at His throne? Answer that. I don't need another repetition of a shortened passage.

 

[Truth7t7]

You just repeated the same verse that I showed you went on further. You are ignoring the rest of the passage.

What I am going by is that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Where, if not to God at His throne? Answer that. I don't need another repetition of a shortened passage.

You make the statement that satan is the accuser of the brethren, then make a blind assumption this must be that satan is in heaven with God, accusing them at his throne?

Big head shake and smile to that one

The horse is dead, in love

Jesus is the Lord

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You make the statement that satan is the accuser of the brethren, then make a blind assumption this must be that satan is in heaven with God, accusing them at his throne?

Big head shake and smile to that one

The horse is dead, in love

Jesus is the Lord

How do you believe he accuses the brethren? To Whom/whom?
Revelation 12 shows clearly the war is right before the Great Tribulation, if you can recognize the woman is Israel, and the timings given that point to the the two halves of 7 years and what happens during those times that are right before Jesus actually comes again. The second coming, not the first.

 

[Davy]

Interesting, but seeing as they were captives of Persia lead me to believe that every nation has an archangel over it, whether of God or of Satan. The archangel referred to as the Prince of Persia is over Persia, and Michael "your prince" is over Israel. Satan is actually referred to as the King of Tyre. He is not a "prince."

Also the placement of the verses in Revelation 12 is right before the Great Tribulation starts. Before that soon coming last 7 years, Satan and his angels are now still in heaven as the accusers of the brethren.

If you pay close attention in Revelation, the "dragon" comes on the first part of the 6th Seal, and on the 6th Trumpet (Euphrates border drying up), and on the 6th Vial. The Sign Jesus gave for when the 'great tribulation' starts is with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol per the Book of Daniel (Daniel 11; Matthew 24).

 

[Truth7t7]

How do you believe he accuses the brethren? To Whom/whom?
Revelation 12 shows clearly the war is right before the Great Tribulation, if you can recognize the woman is Israel, and the timings given that point to the the two halves of 7 years and what happens during those times that are right before Jesus actually comes again. The second coming, not the first.

The horse is dead, we disagree

 

[Davy]

How do you believe he accuses the brethren? To Whom/whom?
Revelation 12 shows clearly the war is right before the Great Tribulation, if you can recognize the woman is Israel, and the timings given that point to the the two halves of 7 years and what happens during those times that are right before Jesus actually comes again. The second coming, not the first.

I wouldn't pay attention to Truth7t7, because the Revelation 12:10 passage is easy and agrees with what you said that the accuser (Satan) does that against us before God's Throne in Heaven (before he is cast out per that war)...

Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If you pay close attention in Revelation, the "dragon" comes on the first part of the 6th Seal, and on the 6th Trumpet (Euphrates border drying up), and on the 6th Vial. The Sign Jesus gave for when the 'great tribulation' starts is with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol per the Book of Daniel (Daniel 11; Matthew 24).

Revelation 12 and the first part of chapter 13 is a recap of the GT, but comes from a different aspect, and the seals are the same time, but aspects of particulars. The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. You know that don't you?

 

[Davy]

Revelation 12 and the first part of chapter 13 is a recap of the GT, but comes from a different aspect, and the seals are the same time, but aspects of particulars. The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. You know that don't you?

No, it's actually not a recap of the GT. The first 5 verses of Revelation 12 is a summary back from the time when Satan 'originally' rebelled against God in the old world, then to Israel's ordaining and the Seed of the Woman being born, and then Christ (The Child) eventually taking reign with the "rod of iron" at His future 2nd coming. It's thus a very short summary of the whole Bible really, from verse 1 to 5.

Verse 6 is the FIRST HALF of the Daniel 9:27 "one week". But it is not the GT. The SECOND HALF of the "one week" is the actual GT (1260 days, or 'a time, times, and a half a time' per Revelation 12:14). That is when the "dragon" is cast out and goes after to persecute the symbolic 'woman'.

In Revelation 12:3-4, we are shown the 'dragon' drawing a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him, and doing that back when he had a beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. That was Satan's original beast kingdom of old when he first coveted God's Throne in the old world. The beast kingdom shown in Revelation 13:1 is for the end of this world, and is to have "ten crowns" instead of seven. This distinction between Rev.12 and Rev.13 is very easy to miss, but that's exactly what God's Holy Writ does at times, to see if we're paying attention.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, it's actually not a recap of the GT. The first 5 verses of Revelation 12 is a summary back from the time when Satan 'originally' rebelled against God in the old world, then to Israel's ordaining and the Seed of the Woman being born, and then Christ (The Child) eventually taking reign with the "rod of iron" at His future 2nd coming. It's thus a very short summary of the whole Bible really, from verse 1 to 5.

Verse 6 is the FIRST HALF of the Daniel 9:27 "one week". But it is not the GT. The SECOND HALF of the "one week" is the actual GT (1260 days, or 'a time, times, and a half a time' per Revelation 12:14). That is when the "dragon" is cast out and goes after to persecute the symbolic 'woman'.

In Revelation 12:3-4, we are shown the 'dragon' drawing a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him, and doing that back when he had a beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. That was Satan's original beast kingdom of old when he first coveted God's Throne in the old world. The beast kingdom shown in Revelation 13:1 is for the end of this world, and is to have "ten crowns" instead of seven. This distinction between Rev.12 and Rev.13 is very easy to miss, but that's exactly what God's Holy Writ does at times, to see if we're paying attention.

What old world, and give me a text as to that timing. Verse 13 is clear it is right before the GT.

The woman is Israel. Christians are "her other offspring"
Chapter 13 starts out with the second half of the GT when the beast is allowed "to continue" for another 42 months.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In Revelation 12:3-4, we are shown the 'dragon' drawing a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him

In Genesis 6 we see that only some of the angels fell at this time, but is says it will happen again afterwards. So the one third of all God's angels was not all at once, but gradual up until the end and the war in heaven casts the rest of the fallen angels that are not already chained in the bottomless pit, and Satan out of heaven.

 

[Davy]

What old world, and give me a text as to that timing. Verse 13 is clear it is right before the GT.

So you want to know 'when'... Satan did the following?

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

You tell me, just when do you think Satan as that "red dragon" did that drawing of a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him?

The woman is Israel. Christians are "her other offspring"

The symbolic woman in verse 1 indeed is God's Israel. Those symbols of the sun and moon and stars were first mentioned in Joseph's dream in Genesis 37. However... the symbolic 'woman' at the end of Revelation 12:17 represents Paul's Ephesians 2 idea of the "commonwealth of Israel", which is about believing Gentiles grafted in with believing Israel, which indeed is about Christ's Church.

Chapter 13 starts out with the second half of the GT when the beast is allowed "to continue" for another 42 months.

Not really, the war in Heaven with the "dragon" and his angels kicked out of heaven down to the earth among us is when the GT starts. That is when the "abomination of desolation" idol will be setup in Jerusalem for the end per Matthew 24 and Mark 13, and the demand for all to bow in worship to it or be killed begins (Revelation 13:11-17).

Thus the Revelation 12:7 to 12:17 verses are all within the same timing, from the time when the "dragon" arrives, and starts going after the saints for that period of 'a time, times, and half a time' (or 1260 days). Yet there is also a hint there of the shortened time Lord Jesus said He would shorten the GT to per Matthew 24:21-22.

 

[Davy]

In Genesis 6 we see that only some of the angels fell at this time, but is says it will happen again afterwards. So the one third of all God's angels was not all at once, but gradual up until the end and the war in heaven casts the rest of the fallen angels that are not already chained in the bottomless pit, and Satan out of heaven.

Sorry, but the days of Noah was not... when Satan as that "red dragon" drew a third of the angels into rebellion with Him. It was back at the following time... the prince and king of Tyrus being symbolic in the below for Satan...

Ezek 28:2-19
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, "I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas"; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, "I am God?" but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV

The name "Tyrus" means 'rock'. It is being used as an allegory about Satan there.

Deut 32:30-31
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
KJV

Their "rock" is Satan, and Satan is who originally coveted God's Place and Throne, that God mocks in the above Ezekiel 28 Scripture. No flesh prince or king of Tyrus was ever in God's Garden of Eden, nor was any flesh man ever an anointed cherub that covereth, for a cherub is a Heavenly being. So there's no mistaking that Ezekiel 28 Scripture above is an allegory or parable about Satan being originally perfect in his ways, until he rebelled.

But when... did all that happen? At what time was Satan perfect in his ways, following God at His Throne?

Certainly not in the time of Adam and Eve, and Satan as "that old serpent" was already in his role as deceiver and adversary tempting Eve to rebel against God. So if not in the time of Adam and Eve, then how far before their day?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you want to know 'when'... Satan did the following?

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

You tell me, just when do you think Satan as that "red dragon" did that drawing of a third of the angels ("stars") to earth with him?



The symbolic woman in verse 1 indeed is God's Israel. Those symbols of the sun and moon and stars were first mentioned in Joseph's dream in Genesis 37. However... the symbolic 'woman' at the end of Revelation 12:17 represents Paul's Ephesians 2 idea of the "commonwealth of Israel", which is about believing Gentiles grafted in with believing Israel, which indeed is about Christ's Church.



Not really, the war in Heaven with the "dragon" and his angels kicked out of heaven down to the earth among us is when the GT starts. That is when the "abomination of desolation" idol will be setup in Jerusalem for the end per Matthew 24 and Mark 13, and the demand for all to bow in worship to it or be killed begins (Revelation 13:11-17).

Thus the Revelation 12:7 to 12:17 verses are all within the same timing, from the time when the "dragon" arrives, and starts going after the saints for that period of 'a time, times, and half a time' (or 1260 days). Yet there is also a hint there of the shortened time Lord Jesus said He would shorten the GT to per Matthew 24:21-22.

What do you think I've been doing. Now I'm asking you what you mean by "the old world"

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sorry, but the days of Noah was not... when Satan as that "red dragon" drew a third of the angels into rebellion with Him. It was back at the following time... the prince and king of Tyrus being symbolic in the below for Satan...

Ezek 28:2-19
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, "I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas"; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, "I am God?" but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV

The name "Tyrus" means 'rock'. It is being used as an allegory about Satan there.

Deut 32:30-31
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
KJV

Their "rock" is Satan, and Satan is who originally coveted God's Place and Throne, that God mocks in the above Ezekiel 28 Scripture. No flesh prince or king of Tyrus was ever in God's Garden of Eden, nor was any flesh man ever an anointed cherub that covereth, for a cherub is a Heavenly being. So there's no mistaking that Ezekiel 28 Scripture above is an allegory or parable about Satan being originally perfect in his ways, until he rebelled.

But when... did all that happen? At what time was Satan perfect in his ways, following God at His Throne?

Certainly not in the time of Adam and Eve, and Satan as "that old serpent" was already in his role as deceiver and adversary tempting Eve to rebel against God. So if not in the time of Adam and Eve, then how far before their day?

Satan's first sin was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.

 

[Davy]

What do you think I've been doing. Now I'm asking you what you mean by "the old world"

Then read my post #53.

 

[Davy]

Satan's first sin was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.

No, that was not Satan's first sin. The Ezekiel 28 allegory shows you what Satan's original sin in the beginning was, and it certainly did not involve tempting Eve.

And if you don't understand 'how' Satan originally sinned against God in the beginning, then you certainly won't understand about the beast in Revelation 17:8. (and I prefer the KJV translation of that).

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sorry, but the days of Noah was not... when Satan as that "red dragon" drew a third of the angels into rebellion with Him. It was back at the following time... the prince and king of Tyrus being symbolic in the below for Satan...

Ezek 28:2-19
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, "I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas"; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, "I am God?" but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV

The name "Tyrus" means 'rock'. It is being used as an allegory about Satan there.

Deut 32:30-31
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
KJV

Their "rock" is Satan, and Satan is who originally coveted God's Place and Throne, that God mocks in the above Ezekiel 28 Scripture. No flesh prince or king of Tyrus was ever in God's Garden of Eden, nor was any flesh man ever an anointed cherub that covereth, for a cherub is a Heavenly being. So there's no mistaking that Ezekiel 28 Scripture above is an allegory or parable about Satan being originally perfect in his ways, until he rebelled.

But when... did all that happen? At what time was Satan perfect in his ways, following God at His Throne?

Certainly not in the time of Adam and Eve, and Satan as "that old serpent" was already in his role as deceiver and adversary tempting Eve to rebel against God. So if not in the time of Adam and Eve, then how far before their day?

I see, you have chosen to reason that this is just an allegory. That's sad.

 

[Davy]

I see, you have chosen to reason that this is just an allegory. That's sad.

Now why would you say something like that? I never said what Satan did in coveting God's Throne was an allegory. That really happened.

What I said was that the Ezekiel 28 chapter uses the prince and king of Tyrus as allegorical figures to point... to Satan, yet there's still phrases there that we know for sure God was not talking about any flesh prince or flesh king, like the "anointed cherub that covereth" and that he was in the Garden of Eden. That can't be about a flesh prince or flesh king, thus by that we know God was giving a parable through Ezekiel about Satan. Same kind of thing happens in the Isaiah 14 chapter too, and the KJV translators put the word "Lucifer" there so we'd know for sure who God was pointing to, that coveted His Place, His Throne.

It would appear then, you like many of my Christian brethren, have a difficult time understanding when God uses allegory in His Word.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Now why would you say something like that? I never said what Satan did in coveting God's Throne was an allegory. That really happened.

What I said was that the Ezekiel 28 chapter uses the prince and king of Tyrus as allegorical figures to point... to Satan, yet there's still phrases there that we know for sure God was not talking about any flesh prince or flesh king, like the "anointed cherub that covereth" and that he was in the Garden of Eden. That can't be about a flesh prince or flesh king, thus by that we know God was giving a parable through Ezekiel about Satan. Same kind of thing happens in the Isaiah 14 chapter too, and the KJV translators put the word "Lucifer" there so we'd know for sure who God was pointing to, that coveted His Place, His Throne.

It would appear then, you like many of my Christian brethren, have a difficult time understanding when God uses allegory in His Word.

Angels have titles like the fallen angels, the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece in Daniel 10. Satan being called the king of Tyrus is not allegorical.