Was James confused?

[Armadillo]

James said his writing was to the Jews, Most in the main stream Christian religion teach his writings are to the Gentile church TOO.. You can't have it both ways.

Some people feel like some law,

Some don't

Book of James has law

Grace don't

Because, some people feel like the law

some don't!

(almond joy song)

 

[KBCid]

imo the argument is mostly one of misunderstanding. You say "earn salvation," but it is prolly more like "demonstrate salvation."
part 2 is that those vv would be by way of influencing you, who is insisting upon grace alone, and not any "works crowd," who would of necessity be more amenable to the vv, being as how they establish works, some 20, some 50, some 100, like that

An amazing demonstration of the perfect answer. Maybe intent is an important thing to God.
Maybe we as professing Christians are expected to perform ---Godly acts---. Christ was our example of words and actions in one Man and he did Godly works of good founded on faith for the benefit of others..... why.... would we.... NOT.... want to be like that?

 

[KBCid]

It is the religious that want others to do works that they approve of as works. But it is God who determines the life of His children. I am on this forum boasting of the work of Jesus on the cross where He paid for the sins of the whole world. But the religious are on here trying to say what Jesus did is not enough unless a person does what the religious think they ought to and they go back under the law to do it.

Christ sacrificed himself to pay for the sins that are to be forgiven. Sins and sinning did not go away they were expanded. It used to be that a man could look on a woman to lust her and not be held accountable since he justified himself in that he obeyed the commandment and did not touch her. Now Christ tells us that if you do look on a woman that way then you are sinning.
Tell me what sins are you allowed to keep commiting if your saved?

 

[H. Richard]

The problem about all this doing works to prove a person's faith is that it does not prove anything. Many in the churches do charitable works but those works can be done by anyone. They do not mean the person is even saved. As the scripture states there are many Tares in the church.

But let us see how Jesus came down on works.

Matt 6:1-4
6 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
NKJV

Matt 23:4-5
4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
NKJV

So James wants everyone to see his works. Many on these threads want everyone to see their works. But they do not see that anyone can fake it.
I feel that James is boasting about his works and it seems there are many on forums that do the same. But Jesus was absolutely correct in that they do it to be seen before men.

 

[H. Richard]

Christ sacrificed himself to pay for the sins that are to be forgiven. Sins and sinning did not go away they were expanded. It used to be that a man could look on a woman to lust her and not be held accountable since he justified himself in that he obeyed the commandment and did not touch her. Now Christ tells us that if you do look on a woman that way then you are sinning.
Tell me what sins are you allowed to keep commiting if your saved?

All the sins of mankind were atoned for, paid for with the blood of Jesus on the cross. Those under grace are no longer under the law so there is no sin that condemns them. But the religious will not accept that His blood paid for anything.

In this age of grace the children of God are not judged by the law. They are judged as to what they did with Jesus' work on the cross; did they place their faith in His work?

 

[H. Richard]

Now we're getting somewhere.
You admit that JESUS did say to do works.
Great.

Now you could reread the Mathew verse you quoted and understand that Jesus was talking not BOASTING
About your good works...

He does want us to do them.

When Jesus tells us to do something...
We should obey.
John 14:15

***
Because I quoted what Jesus said does not mean I believe in works. Jesus came to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses. What do you expect Him to say? When He, Jesus, said He only came to the""""""lost sheep of Israel""""" I believe Him. Do you? What Jesus taught was to the Jews.

The fact remains that anyone can fake salvation and many are doing just that because they only have faith in their works. Many are surprised when told His shed blood atoned for ALL the sins of the world. Most will not believe it.

 

[GodsGrace]

***
Because I quoted what Jesus said does not mean I believe in works. Jesus came to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses. What do you expect Him to say? When He, Jesus, said He only came to the""""""lost sheep of Israel""""" I believe Him. Do you? What Jesus taught was to the Jews.

The fact remains that anyone can fake salvation and many are doing just that because they only have faith in their works. Many are surprised when told His shed blood atoned for ALL the sins of the world. Most will not believe it.

You just said that even though Jesus said to do works, does not mean you should do them.
Don't you think we should do everything Jesus said?

Re the lost sheep of Israel...
Yes. I believe everything Jesus said. I trust Him more than anyone in the NT.
He said He had other sheep to which He should tend.
Sorry...no Bible.
That other sheep is US.

 

[tabletalk]

***
Because I quoted what Jesus said does not mean I believe in works. Jesus came to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses. What do you expect Him to say? When He, Jesus, said He only came to the""""""lost sheep of Israel""""" I believe Him. Do you? What Jesus taught was to the Jews.

The fact remains that anyone can fake salvation and many are doing just that because they only have faith in their works. Many are surprised when told His shed blood atoned for ALL the sins of the world. Most will not believe it.

You said: "What Jesus taught was to the Jews".
He sent Paul to the Gentiles, so I think the teachings of Jesus are for the Gentiles also.

Acts 26: 17. (Jesus speaking to Paul) "I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18. to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’"

 

[bbyrd009]

"Preach the gospel at all times...if necessary, use words."

ha nice

 

[H. Richard]

You said: "What Jesus taught was to the Jews".
He sent Paul to the Gentiles, so I think the teachings of Jesus are for the Gentiles also.

Acts 26: 17. (Jesus speaking to Paul) "I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18. to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’"

***

I don't think so since He (JESUS) said He only came to the """"""LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL""""" in two places. Are you saying Jesus lied when He said it?????????????????????

Jesus did not go to the Gentiles. He sent Paul to them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Many in the churches do charitable works but those works can be done by anyone.

good fruit does not come from bad trees, and in my experience even the "good" works done by the evil end up not being very charitable, and run along the lines of enriching Susan G Komen or whatever. So i agree, there is charity and then there is charity, but you gotta start somewhere i guess, and a good deed still covers many sins. So, talk about judging.

 

[H. Richard]

You just said that even though Jesus said to do works, does not mean you should do them.
Don't you think we should do everything Jesus said?

Re the lost sheep of Israel...
Yes. I believe everything Jesus said. I trust Him more than anyone in the NT.
He said He had other sheep to which He should tend.
Sorry...no Bible.
That other sheep is US.

***

So if a person gets sick they should do as the Law says to do; right???????

"That other sheep is US. Show the scriptures that say that.

You have, as yet, to say whether you believe Jesus when He said """"""""HE ONLY CAME TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL""""""".

 

[bbyrd009]

They do not mean the person is even saved.

ah, what are the requirements for being "saved" then?
would the Good Samaritan be interested in your perception of his "salvation?"
prolly not


and i gotta tell ya, give me someone trying to do good works to make themselves look better over a believer any day imo

 

[bbyrd009]

The problem about all this doing works to prove a person's faith is that it does not prove anything.

yet Scripture plainly states that we are justified by our works, so one of you is wrong i guess, you guess who

 

[bbyrd009]

So James wants everyone to see his works.

horse puckey, you have now taken a passage meant for hypocrites and applied it to an author of Scripture lol, is all you have done

 

[bbyrd009]

Many on these threads want everyone to see their works.

i don't see how you could possibly see any of my works here, but again, now who is judging?

 

[bbyrd009]

I feel that James is boasting about his works and it seems there are many on forums that do the same.

can you provide an example? seems pretty rare to me

 

[bbyrd009]

But Jesus was absolutely correct in that they do it to be seen before men.

So then that just makes Jesus absolutely correct in that you should do them in secret, then, doesn't it

 

[bbyrd009]

Matt 23:4-5
4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
NKJV

so, are you talking about good deeds or standards now?

 

[H. Richard]

This thread dropped its original ideas and has degenerated into works _+ faith. It is obvious, to me, that there are many in the churches claimiing their works but have no idea as to what they have faith in. Many can claim their works but it doesn't mean a thing if they can't say what that faith is in.

What seems to be missing is what the word FAITH means to everyone. The word, by itself means nothing. I have stated, many times, that my faith is in what Jesus did on the cross that atoned(PAID) for all the sins of the world including mine. Since most are big to talk about their works to show their faith then how about telling us what your faith is in.

But many say my faith, as stated above, is """EASY BELIEVEISM""; not sure that is really a word. So how about telling what YOU have faith in.

Based on the results of this thread it seems that most have faith in their works since that is as far as they will go. But they are quick to say my faith in Jesus' works is not enough.