Was Mary sinless?

[jiggyfly]

He CAN - he just doesn't here.

So what do you think he was saying?

The bible nowhere says that all will proclaim allegiance to GOD. You're reading that into the text. In the past, when an army or nation was conquered, the commanders or rulers of the conquered would be brought before the conquering king and made to prostrate themselves before him. Many times they were then killed.

It will be the same with Christ.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me. Luke 19:27

Have you read what Christ said in Luke 6:35?
"Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked.


Isaiah 45:23

I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess allegiance to me.*"

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Have you read what Christ said in Luke 6:35?"

Yeah I just did. Did you read Luke 19:27?

'confess allegiance' is not an accurate translation of the Hebrew in your version of Isaiah 45:23. This is Paul's take on that Isaiah verse:

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess (acknowledge) to God. Romans 14:11

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess (acknowledge) that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

Confess
G1843 ἐξομολογέω exomologeo (ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o) v.
1. to acknowledge or (by implication, of assent) agree fully
[from G1537 and G3670]

 

[101G]

2 ChurchAuthority, GINOLJC.
Jesus, the Son of God and the Son of Man was crucified, died, was buried, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.

first, your ERROR, the son of God is the Flesh, bone and Blood. the outer man, that which was born. scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". take note, The Spirit is not born, flesh is. Son of God is the Flesh, bone, and Blood, meaning the body. the son of Man is the diversified Spirit in that body, the hidden man within. see there is a inner man, (son of Man, the real person). and there is a outer man, (son of God, the container, the veil, the vesture). at natural death they separate. your body is your IDENTIFICATION. that have a name.

Second, the Son of God did not rise, that body that was born was changed, resurrected. the Body that Jesus, our Saviour is in now is not the Body that was birthed by Mary, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?. (HOLD IT, how are the dead raised, and "with", what what body, see the difference?) 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain". its not the same natural , carnal body. OK, understand?. the body is not you, only the container of your spirit/soul.
Mary was overshadowed b the HOLY SPIRIT - the THIRD Person of the Trinity and became pregnant.
Your heresy stems from the fact that you deny the Trinity - the FIRST and most BASIC ternet of Christianity.

I do not believe in a trinity. I believe in ONLY ONE GOD, and that one God is ONLY ONE PERSON. and that which was in a flesh and blood body is the DIVERSITY of that ONE Spirit. you still don't get it do you. Listen, if the HOLY SPIRIT is the one who is the cause, or the source of the conception, then he's the FATHER. what you have did is made a person out of a title. the title "Father", by definition is the HOLY SPIRIT. out of your own mouth did you not say the HOLY SPIRIT overshadowed Mary, it was the HOLY SPIRIT that cause the conception. so who is the title of "Father" rightfully?. answer the HOLY SPIRIT. the Father is the HOLY SPIRIT/GOD. the TITLE Father is the HOLY SPIRIT. for there is only ONE Spirit. and that ONE Spirit holds the titles, Father, and Son. for there is only ONE SPIRIT, the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, the SAME PERSON. do you deny this?. I hope not. so if the HOLY SPIRIT is the "Father", who then is this as you say the first person of the Godhead?. well. you're following a title, and not a person.
As for all of your "LOL-ing", who is putting Jesus back on the cross??
Where on earth do you get that from?

from you, when you posted, Heb. 6:4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace".
Listen he was the Son of God, which is a title of IDENTIFICATION, don't worry, you're know him when he appears again. question, ChurchAuthority, is it the son of God coming back, or the Son of Man?, answer the Son of Man, if not scripture please.
are you getting any of this?.

Now is Jesus the Christ the Holy Spirit, Yes or No.

 

[Alanforchrist]

You agree then that not ALL are made alive in Christ.



You are confused. No-one "ALL" , is "Ketcharitomene"

I've given you the link to the Greek NT which shows that the Greek is "Ketcharitomene" and that is NOT a Catholic site.

Ketcharitomene, IS NOT the Greek word, for, "Highly favoured" In Lk 1: 28, It is a made up catholic English translation.
The True Greek word is, "Charitoo", And it means Mary had to be made acceptable because she was a sinner.
She sais she needed a saviour, And only sinners need a saviour.

As for "ALL", ALL are made alive, IN CHRIST.

 

[101G]

2 ChurchAuthority, GINOLJC,

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".

Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death".

here's the crust of the matter.

Most trinitarians, agree and say, this is the SAME PERSON. well if its the SAME PERSON, then its just ONE PERSON in the Godhead, so how do you make it into two PERSONS then?. I hope you don't say one is the Son and the other is the Father. because this PERSON, the First and the Last, in verses 17 & 18 DIED . and if you say, this is the same PERSON, then there is no trinity. but if you say that this is TWO PERSON, then you deny scriptures, because the First and the Last in Verses 17 & 18 is the Alpha and Omega of verse 8. and in each separate verses we see he said "I", which is singular, as in verses 8, I AM Alpha and Omega. and in verse 17 he said I AM the first and the Last. so if one read the context starting at verse 8 - 18 we know that it is talking about the SAME PERSON. we know that Jesus the Christ DIED, the First and the Last, and the First and the Last is the Amighty, according to verse 8. so I ask, if this is the SAME PERSON, then the Almighty, (verse 8, Alpha and Omega), is the SAME PERSON as the Son, (verse 17, the First and the Last), the same person. how do we know this?, just read verse 11. "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last". so the one who you call Father, is the same one who you call son. check it out, re-read it to be sure.

now, knowing this, I hope you don't say that this is two PERSON, (father verse 8, and son, verse 17), I Hope you don't. so, what's it going to be, two Person, or ONE PERSON. if one PERSON, then there is no trinity, because you will be missing a PERSON. I'll be waiting for your answer?. take your time and think on this.

 

[jiggyfly]

Yeah I just did. Did you read Luke 19:27?

'confess allegiance' is not an accurate translation of the Hebrew in your version of Isaiah 45:23. This is Paul's take on that Isaiah verse:

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess (acknowledge) to God. Romans 14:11

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess (acknowledge) that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

Confess
G1843 ἐξομολογέω exomologeo (ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o) v.
1. to acknowledge or (by implication, of assent) agree fully
[from G1537 and G3670]

Check the Septuagint, you might be surprised.

What do you think of the definition you posted "agree fully"?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Check the Septuagint, you might be surprised.

What do you think of the definition you posted "agree fully"?

I did check the LXX before I posted. I wasn't surprised.

I think that any enemy of Christ who is resurrected and brought before Jesus' throne will have no choice but to fully agree that he is lord. And as I said before, they will bow the knee in subjection, not worship.

 

[jiggyfly]

I did check the LXX before I posted. I wasn't surprised.

I think that any enemy of Christ who is resurrected and brought before Jesus' throne will have no choice but to fully agree that he is lord. And as I said before, they will bow the knee in subjection, not worship.

But that's not what the scriptures suggest in the original texts, actually it's to the contrary.



For 1063 it is written 1125 , [As] I 1473 live 2198 , saith 3004 the Lord 2962, 3754 every 3956 knee1119 shall bow 2578 to me 1698, and 2532 every3956 tongue 1100 shall confess 1843 to God 2316.



κάμπτω

Transliteration


kamptō


Pronunciation


kä'mp-tō (Key)


Part of Speech


verb


Root Word (Etymology)

Apparently a primary verb
​

TDNT Reference


3:594,413


Vines


View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage


1) to bend, bow, the knee (the knees)
a) to one
1) in honour of one
2) in religious veneration
B) used of worshippers
2) to bow one's self







ἐξομολογέω

Transliteration


exomologeō


Pronunciation


eks-o-mo-lo-ge'-ō (Key)


Part of Speech


verb


Root Word (Etymology)

From ἐκ (G1537) and ὁμολογέω (G3670)
​

TDNT Reference


5:199,687


Vines


View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage


1) to confess
2) to profess
a) acknowledge openly and joyfully
B) to one's honour: to celebrate, give praise to
c) to profess that one will do something, to promise, agree, engage


There's nothing indicative of any force employed but rather the suggestion of willfully and joyfully bowing in worship.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But that's not what the scriptures suggest in the original texts, actually it's to the contrary.

There's nothing indicative of any force employed but rather the suggestion of willfully and joyfully bowing in worship.

I think you're reading into it what you want to see. The fuller context of scripture doesn't support that view.

The Greek word translated bend in Isaiah 45:23 is also found in 2 Kings 1:13 in the LXX. The captain wasn't worshiping Elijah; he was pleading for his life, which is an apt picture of the final judgment. It is also used in Judges 7:5; I don't think those men were worshiping the water. It was used by Homer in the Iliad of those bending the knee to rest. So that word doesn't of itself mean bending the knee in worship. Context is everything.

I won't get into analyzing 'confess' because it overwhelming means 'to acknowledge'. Cherry picking a preferred meaning doesn't make it mean otherwise.

 

[jiggyfly]

I think you're reading into it what you want to see. The fuller context of scripture doesn't support that view.

The Greek word translated bend in Isaiah 45:23 is also found in 2 Kings 1:13 in the LXX. The captain wasn't worshiping Elijah; he was pleading for his life, which is an apt picture of the final judgment. It is also used in Judges 7:5; I don't think those men were worshiping the water. It was used by Homer in the Iliad of those bending the knee to rest. So that word doesn't of itself mean bending the knee in worship. Context is everything.

I won't get into analyzing 'confess' because it overwhelming means 'to acknowledge'. Cherry picking a preferred meaning doesn't make it mean otherwise.

I think you are reading into the scriptures something that just isn't there, and your trying to support a view that is really not conducive to scripture or Father's character. I didn't see any indication within the context of the scriptures I quoted of any force did you? If so please point it out.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think you are reading into the scriptures something that just isn't there, and your trying to support a view that is really not conducive to scripture or Father's character. I didn't see any indication within the context of the scriptures I quoted of any force did you? If so please point it out.

Concerning Luke 6:35, GOD is kind to the wicked. His son died that they might be saved. But if they don't want to come to the light, he won't make them. Many people love sin more than GOD. He will give them what they love. Also, what kind of love would it be to force the righteous to live with the wicked for eternity?

btw, I've heard the universalism rationalizations. I don't need to hear them again.

 

[jiggyfly]

Concerning Luke 6:35, GOD is kind to the wicked. His son died that they might be saved. But if they don't want to come to the light, he won't make them. Many people love sin more than GOD. He will give them what they love. Also, what kind of love would it be to force the righteous to live with the wicked for eternity?

btw, I've heard the universalism rationalizations. I don't need to hear them again.

Who said anything about the righteous living with the wicked?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Who said anything about the righteous living with the wicked?

In essence that's what universalism teaches. There is no scriptural evidence for repentance after death.

 

[jiggyfly]

In essence that's what universalism teaches. There is no scriptural evidence for repentance after death.

While it is true that there is little evidence in the scriptures to indicate repentance after the flesh has expired is there any scriptural evidence of no chance for repentance after the flesh dies?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

While it is true that there is little evidence in the scriptures to indicate repentance after the flesh has expired is there any scriptural evidence of no chance for repentance after the flesh dies?

A huge amount. I'm not going to dig them out for you though.

 

[jiggyfly]

A huge amount. I'm not going to dig them out for you though.

Well when ever your ready to support your belief let me know and we can start a a thread on it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well when ever your ready to support your belief let me know and we can start a a thread on it.

Go ahead. Start a thread. I'll participate.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

So what do you think he was saying?

Oh, NO you don’t.
ALL of you have been bypassing my posts and pretending that I haven’t provided any evidence.
YOU answer MY questions before before you demand that I answer YOURS. Several posts back, I presented the following – and NONE of you have answered it yt:

Romans 15:14
“I myself am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with ALL knowledge, and able to instruct one another.”

I thought only GOD has ALL knowledge. Is Paul telling the Romans that EACH of them knows ALL – like God does?


1 Corinthians 15:22http://biblia.com/bible/niv/1
“For as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive.” RSV
And the Bible tells us that Enoch and Elijah did not die, Genesis 5:24http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Genesis and 2 Kings 2:11.
Hebrews 11:5http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Hebrews “By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him.”

Do ALL choose to follow God?? Have ALL died??


Romans 1:29http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Romans
“Being filled with ALL unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers”

Does every wicked person do ALL things that are wrong? Are they ALL fornicators and murderers and gossips?


Matthew 3:5-6http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew
“Then went out to him [John the Baptist] Jerusalem and ALL Judea and ALL the region about the Jordan, and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.”

And yet did “ALL” Jerusalem go out to him? How about the Pharisees? Did THEY go?


Luke 2:1http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Luke
“And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.”

Tell me something - did Caesar tax the people from China and India and South Africa? How could he when he did not even control the whole world?


Matthew 2:3http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew
“When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and ALL Jerusalem with him”

Was every single person in Jerusalem troubled along with Herod??


Matthew 26:56http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matthew
“ … Then ALL the disciples left him [Jesus] and fled.”

Ummm, “ALL” the disciples weren’t even there – so what does this mean, hmmm??

Don't be so cocky and confident that ALL always means everybody.

ChruchAuthoroity DID NOT give a long list to show you are wrong.
What churchauthority gave me, was his/her eroneous wrong thoughts..GET IT RIGHT.
The catholics have to twist the scriptures and the Greek text, otherwise they know they don't have a doctrine.

A perfect example of how catholics twist the scriptures and Greek, Is, Rom 3: 23, says, "ALL have sinned".
And the Greek word is, "Charitoo", Yet the catholics twst the scriptures by saying Mary never sinned.
Then they twist the Greek by saying . "ALL" , is "Ketcharitomene". and they say it doesn't mean everyone...NAUGHTY.

WRONG.

Charitoo is the ROOT word.
Kecharitomene is the ACTUAL TENSE used in this verse – just as took and taking are different tenses of the word, “Take”.

As I stated before – and quite correctly - Kecharitomene translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”
You are dead wrong here because you have not researched the linguistic ramifications of tenses and participles.

2 ChurchAuthority, GINOLJC.
Jesus, the Son of God and the Son of Man was crucified, died, was buried, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.

first, your ERROR, the son of God is the Flesh, bone and Blood. the outer man, that which was born. scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". take note, The Spirit is not born, flesh is. Son of God is the Flesh, bone, and Blood, meaning the body. the son of Man is the diversified Spirit in that body, the hidden man within. see there is a inner man, (son of Man, the real person). and there is a outer man, (son of God, the container, the veil, the vesture). at natural death they separate. your body is your IDENTIFICATION. that have a name.

Second, the Son of God did not rise, that body that was born was changed, resurrected. the Body that Jesus, our Saviour is in now is not the Body that was birthed by Mary, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?. (HOLD IT, how are the dead raised, and "with", what what body, see the difference?) 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain". its not the same natural , carnal body. OK, understand?. the body is not you, only the container of your spirit/soul.
Mary was overshadowed b the HOLY SPIRIT - the THIRD Person of the Trinity and became pregnant.
Your heresy stems from the fact that you deny the Trinity - the FIRST and most BASIC ternet of Christianity.

I do not believe in a trinity. I believe in ONLY ONE GOD, and that one God is ONLY ONE PERSON. and that which was in a flesh and blood body is the DIVERSITY of that ONE Spirit. you still don't get it do you. Listen, if the HOLY SPIRIT is the one who is the cause, or the source of the conception, then he's the FATHER. what you have did is made a person out of a title. the title "Father", by definition is the HOLY SPIRIT. out of your own mouth did you not say the HOLY SPIRIT overshadowed Mary, it was the HOLY SPIRIT that cause the conception. so who is the title of "Father" rightfully?. answer the HOLY SPIRIT. the Father is the HOLY SPIRIT/GOD. the TITLE Father is the HOLY SPIRIT. for there is only ONE Spirit. and that ONE Spirit holds the titles, Father, and Son. for there is only ONE SPIRIT, the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, the SAME PERSON. do you deny this?. I hope not. so if the HOLY SPIRIT is the "Father", who then is this as you say the first person of the Godhead?. well. you're following a title, and not a person.
As for all of your "LOL-ing", who is putting Jesus back on the cross??
Where on earth do you get that from?

from you, when you posted, Heb. 6:4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace".
Listen he was the Son of God, which is a title of IDENTIFICATION, don't worry, you're know him when he appears again. question, ChurchAuthority, is it the son of God coming back, or the Son of Man?, answer the Son of Man, if not scripture please.
are you getting any of this?.

Now is Jesus the Christ the Holy Spirit, Yes or No.

Like I said - you're having a really difficult tinme here because of the many heresies you embrace. Most of them are old hereseies and were dealt with in the Early Church (Arianism, Nestorianism, et al).

Your silly questions are based in an abject ignorance of WHO God is. I have addressed your Son of Man/Son of God question repeatedly. Jesus is BOTH the Son of man and the Son of GOD.
If you can't grasp what I have told you about that, please let me know and I'll try to explain in simpler terms.

As for your equally silly question about Jesus and the Holy spirit - I have answered this repeatedly as well. They are 2 distinct Persons in the ONE Triune Godhead.

 

[101G]

2 ChurchAuthority
Like I said - you're having a really difficult tinme here because of the many heresies you embrace. Most of them are old hereseies and were dealt with in the Early Church (Arianism, Nestorianism, et al).

Your silly questions are based in an abject ignorance of WHO God is. I have addressed your Son of Man/Son of God question repeatedly. Jesus is BOTH the Son of man and the Son of GOD.
If you can't grasp what I have told you about that, please let me know and I'll try to explain in simpler terms.

As for your equally silly question about Jesus and the Holy spirit - I have answered this repeatedly as well. They are 2 distinct Persons in the ONE Triune Godhead.

how can you say two person, when the scriptures say different, listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
well ChurchAuthority, who is speaking here?, before you answer, take note, the one who is speaking here said, "I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". and Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
and now this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".
and one more, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
so ChurchAuthority, who said, all of that in the book of Isaiah?. re-read it for surety. we want you to be sure of what you're reading. is this your first person of your Godhead, or the second one. which one?.

"I" is singular, not two person. so how you get two?. there's only ONE PERSON in the Godhead. well?.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

2 ChurchAuthority
Like I said - you're having a really difficult tinme here because of the many heresies you embrace. Most of them are old hereseies and were dealt with in the Early Church (Arianism, Nestorianism, et al).

Your silly questions are based in an abject ignorance of WHO God is. I have addressed your Son of Man/Son of God question repeatedly. Jesus is BOTH the Son of man and the Son of GOD.
If you can't grasp what I have told you about that, please let me know and I'll try to explain in simpler terms.

As for your equally silly question about Jesus and the Holy spirit - I have answered this repeatedly as well. They are 2 distinct Persons in the ONE Triune Godhead.
how can you say two person, when the scriptures say different, listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
well ChurchAuthority, who is speaking here?, before you answer, take note, the one who is speaking here said, "I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". and Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
and now this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".
and one more, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
so ChurchAuthority, who said, all of that in the book of Isaiah?. re-read it for surety. we want you to be sure of what you're reading. is this your first person of your Godhead, or the second one. which one?.

"I" is singular, not two person. so how you get two?. there's only ONE PERSON in the Godhead. well?.

Not two - THREE.

Tell me - who is speaking here:
Gen. 1:26
Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness."