Was Paul Right About Women In Church?

[Sabertooth]

...you know very well if one was to do a search on the subject matter, we would find countless women Christians from many diverse denominations, that are Complementarians.

The problem with terms like "complementarianism" is that it has, at least, two common meanings,

1. Biblical (or Pauline) complementarianism is when we seek to be faithful to gender-specific Scripture that applies to ourselves.
2. Complementarianism is also used as a euphemism for Patriarchy [& Matriarchy] where a person takes it upon themselves to compel their spouse to abide by gender-specific Scriptures (to the former's standards, no less).

When I use the term, I mean #1.
#2 violates the Word on so many fronts.

 

[Wrangler]

I've never heard of #2 as a meaning for complementarianism and suspect it is how opponents couch it.

My wife likes to say God did not make us to compete but to cooperate. "Equality" invariably leads to competition but I have noticed feminists never fight for equality when men have the short end of the equation, e.g., tennis. Women play best of 3 sets; men play best of 5 sets but feminists want equality of pay. Why aren't feminists demanding men play fewer sets? Or even more, why aren't feminists demanding to do away with gender divided sports?

The answer is obvious. Feminists are not interested in equality but only advancing the sex they advocate for.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I've never heard of #2 as a meaning for complementarianism and suspect it is how opponents couch it.

My wife likes to say God did not make us to compete but to cooperate. "Equality" invariably leads to competition but I have noticed feminists never fight for equality when men have the short end of the equation, e.g., tennis. Women play best of 3 sets; men play best of 5 sets but feminists want equality of pay. Why aren't feminists demanding men play fewer sets? Or even more, why aren't feminists demanding to do away with gender divided sports?

The answer is obvious. Feminists are not interested in equality but only advancing the sex they advocate for.

Totally not on subject, but why did you choose that photo for your profile pic? It's vulgar and inappropriate.

 

[Sabertooth]

The answer is obvious. Feminists are not interested in equality but only advancing the sex they advocate for.

As a Christian, I am not interested in fixing (secular) feminism. (All worldly coalitions have the same types of errors.)
I want to be faithful to the Holy Spirit and, as He leads me, my Bible.
That is completely independent of any secular feminist agenda.
Even if my wife did not feel the same way about her Bible, that is the best place for me to be.

 

[Wrangler]

Totally not on subject, but why did you choose that photo for your profile pic? It's vulgar and inappropriate.

The picture comes from a wonderful Brookstone Garden in Myrtle Beach. It is a world famous sculpture depicting man chiseling his way out of the rock. The meaning of the symbolism is that mankind has a choice in making his future.

Not sure what you find vulgar or inappropriate about it. Perhaps you thought it represented something else?

 

[TLHKAJ]

The picture comes from a wonderful Brookstone Garden in Myrtle Beach. It is a world famous sculpture depicting man chiseling his way out of the rock. The meaning of the symbolism is that mankind has a choice in making his future.

Not sure what you find vulgar or inappropriate about it. Perhaps you thought it represented something else?

Public nakedness isn't something I see as appropriate no matter the implied meaning....

 

[Sabertooth]

Not sure what you find vulgar or inappropriate about it. Perhaps you thought it represented something else?

(Because it shows most of his [privates]...)

 

[TLHKAJ]

(Because it shows most of his [privates]...)

Lol....exactly!

 

[Sabertooth]

Lol....exactly!

(It gives "unitarian" a whole new meaning...

)

 

[Wrangler]

(Because it shows most of his [privates]...)

Hmmm. It is rock. His 'privates' have yet to be chiseled out of the rock.

 

[TLHKAJ]

(It gives "unitarian" a whole new meaning...

)

 

[TLHKAJ]

Hmmm. It is rock. His 'privates' have yet to be chiseled out of the rock.

Sounds quite painful...

 

[Heart2Soul]

I've never heard of #2 as a meaning for complementarianism and suspect it is how opponents couch it.

My wife likes to say God did not make us to compete but to cooperate. "Equality" invariably leads to competition but I have noticed feminists never fight for equality when men have the short end of the equation, e.g., tennis. Women play best of 3 sets; men play best of 5 sets but feminists want equality of pay. Why aren't feminists demanding men play fewer sets? Or even more, why aren't feminists demanding to do away with gender divided sports?

The answer is obvious. Feminists are not interested in equality but only advancing the sex they advocate for.

This is not what people thought about women during WWII....our government asked women to come and work in the factories because the men were out fighting in the war.
Many women lost their husbands during this time and were forced....emphasis on FORCED to continue to work to raise her children.
And like it or not, even churches required women to come and help teach while the men were gone.
The women suffered a great deal during that time yet they stayed strong and did their part.
Women didn't demand to be equal with men...they were put in a position they didn't ask for.
After the war the economy started growing again and companies hired men returning from war as well as kept the women who stayed on to work....however...the men received a higher wage than women even though they performed the same duties...
This was how the feminist movement started.
Shame on you. Women have sacrificed much for this country.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sorry this is off topic but educational.


THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN WORLD WAR II
American women were instrumental in the war effort during World War II. With ever-growing orders for war materials combined with so many men overseas fighting the war, women were called upon to work in ways previously reserved only for men. While the most famous image of female patriotism during World War II is Rosie the Riveter, women were involved in other aspects of the war effort outside of factories. More than six million women took wartime jobs in factories, three million volunteered with the Red Cross, and over 200,000 served in the military. Women’s auxiliary branches were created for every branch of the military, including the Women’s Army Corps (WAC), Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service (WAVES), and Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP). Women were restricted from combat zones; however, many became nurses to help the men injured in combat.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Again, sorry for being off topic...but it is educational.

[If so many men lost their lives who is their to teach?]

World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. An estimated total of 70–85 million people perished, or about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion).[1] Deaths directly caused by the war (including military and civilians fatalities) are estimated at 50–56 million, with an additional estimated 19–28 million deaths from war-related disease and famine. Civilian deaths totaled 50–55 million. Military deaths from all causes totaled 21–25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

 

[atpollard]

Technically, the Women’s Equality Movement started long before WW2, in 1848 to be exact:

“The first attempt to organize a national movement for women’s rights occurred in Seneca Falls, New York, in July 1848. Led by Elizabeth Cady Stanton, a young mother from upstate New York, and the Quaker abolitionist Lucretia Mott, about 300 people—most of whom were women—attended the Seneca Falls Convention to outline a direction for the women’s rights movement. Stanton’s call to arms, her “Declaration of Sentiments,” echoed the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men and women are created equal.” In a list of resolutions, Stanton cataloged economic and educational inequities, restrictive laws on marriage and property rights, and social and cultural norms that prevented women from enjoying “all the rights and privileges which belong to them as citizens of the United States.”​

 

[Heart2Soul]

Technically, the Women’s Equality Movement started long before WW2, in 1848 to be exact:

“The first attempt to organize a national movement for women’s rights occurred in Seneca Falls, New York, in July 1848. Led by Elizabeth Cady Stanton, a young mother from upstate New York, and the Quaker abolitionist Lucretia Mott, about 300 people—most of whom were women—attended the Seneca Falls Convention to outline a direction for the women’s rights movement. Stanton’s call to arms, her “Declaration of Sentiments,” echoed the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men and women are created equal.” In a list of resolutions, Stanton cataloged economic and educational inequities, restrictive laws on marriage and property rights, and social and cultural norms that prevented women from enjoying “all the rights and privileges which belong to them as citizens of the United States.”​

I guess it depends on which history author you listen to.

 

[atpollard]

Confirmation...type list of female Calvinist preachers in a search engine..=..0

10 New or Lesser-Known Female Theologians Worth Knowing

“Calvinist” is actually “Reformed” (for groups like Presbyterians) or “Particular” (for Baptists).

 

[atpollard]

Teaching is not having authority over someone.

I agree, however serving as an “elder” or “Shepherd” over a local body involves rebuking and correcting (as Paul confronting Peter, or dealing with the blasphemers and heretics in the churches he planted) ... so those positions could call a woman to stand in “authority” over a man and are, therefore not open to women according to the teachings of the Apostle.

Older women are SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED to “train up the younger women” ... which is a command to teach and disciple that has nothing to do with exercising authority over a man. I have no more problem with women teaching than I have with men teaching ... I prefer scripture to actually say what they claim it teaches (as an example: man or woman, scripture does not teach that you will never be sick unless your faith is too weak).

 

[Sabertooth]

I've never heard of #2 as a meaning for complementarianism and suspect it is how opponents couch it.

If a person is viewing gender-specific Scripture for themselves, it is complementarianism.
If they are viewing it with the goal of straightening out their spouse, it is Patriarchy/Matriarchy (even if they call it complementarianism).