Was the Garden of Eden literally Heaven on Earth? Was the Earth already fallen except for the Garden

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pittsburghjoe

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Were we in God's Love/Imagination when in the Garden? And then we separated from Him and became fallen with the rest of the Earth?

Do you have a better term to describe what we were before the fall?

Did satan cause the Earth to be fallen when he was cast out of Heaven? Did God create a safe-zone bubble of a Garden?

Did Original Sin add physical history of Man to the fallen Earth (evolution of homo sapiens)?
 

pittsburghjoe

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Satan was the first to cause disorder in God's Kingdom. He is the reason for a genre of fallen.

Why wasn't the Garden the whole Earth?

Does God say He cursed the ground ..or was it cursed ground because Adam became fallen?

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Is there something preventing the ground outside of the Garden from already have been fallen/cursed?
 

pittsburghjoe

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Was decoherence/wave collapse hijacked by satan? Did he cause it to have decay, entropy, and death?

Before satan, did decoherence require disorder of coherence? Did God have a different form of physicality in place?
 

Renniks

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Were we in God's Love/Imagination when in the Garden? And then we separated from Him and became fallen with the rest of the Earth?

Do you have a better term to describe what we were before the fall?

Did satan cause the Earth to be fallen when he was cast out of Heaven? Did God create a safe-zone bubble of a Garden?

Did Original Sin add physical history of Man to the fallen Earth (evolution of homo sapiens)?
We have no reason to belive the garden wasn't physical. It does say the earth was without form and void in the beginning, which may have been due to Satan's presence. The garden could have been something like the New Earth will be, in fact, it surely sounds like it was. Before the fall "we" were physically and spiritually pure, but we have no way of knowing what all that entails.
 

pittsburghjoe

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If Heaven is an extra dimension, did the Garden of Eden (before original sin) have an extra dimension preserving it?
 

JohnDB

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Eden has a new name today known as the Fertile Crescent. (Look it up)
The Garden in Eden was in the same Area known as Israel used to be back in the Old Testament. The Tree of Life was in Jerusalem.

The Cherubim guarding the path with a flaming sword going back and forth is a backhanded double entendre for a word we use today called "repentance".

Basically it was a reality symbolizing the Biblical Concepts. Most of it is lost on us today in Westernized Society thousands of years after the scriptures were written in a completely different society with different ideals and focuses.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Do you have a better term to describe what we were before the fall?
Ignorant of good and evil. Morality wasn't known. The Garden was meant to give us an idea of what heaven will be like. It was physically perfect and so were Adam and Even, but the idea that Satan was allowed in there to tempt them is not what can be considered a perfect environment.
Did satan cause the Earth to be fallen when he was cast out of Heaven? Did God create a safe-zone bubble of a Garden?
God put the Tree of Knowledge if Good and Evil for a purpose -it was all part if His plan. We cannot know or appreciate the attributes of God unless we experience their opposite, which is evil. Now we know. Think about it, we could nto know mercy, faith, hope, kindness, patience, forgiveness, even what love is unless we went without them and needed them.

Did Original Sin add physical history of Man to the fallen Earth (evolution of homo sapiens)?
Don't really understand that question. Sin corrupted man and the earth. Man and all living things were created finished, they did not evolve. Changes within the kind exist and can be defined as micro-evolution. It is already a part of the initial design - adaptive mechanisms if you will.
 

pittsburghjoe

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We are in the same situation as Adam and Eve.

The forbidden fruit is still satan's word/perception in current day. We have to give everything up. We can't be about ourselves or praise Man's achievements.

Was it the idea of this fallen place that Eve became seduced with?
 

n2thelight

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One must understand the 3 heaven and earth ages to answer your question

bible-researcher.gif

Three World Ages
(These verses are all taken from the KJV Bible)

Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

End of sentence. Nothing more is said and no time frame is given.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

was: OT:1961
hayah, haw-yaw;

a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):
KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

black-line.gif

without form: OT:8414
tohuw, to'-hoo;

from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:
KJV - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

black-line.gif

void: OT:922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
But wasn't this the way that God created the earth so he could seed it with plants, animals and finally people?

No, if you take a look at Isaiah 45:18 you will see the condition of the earth at the time of creation.

Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Well then, how did the world become without form and void?

Jeremiah 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

Wasn’t this Noah’s flood?

No, because, as you will see below, there were eight Adamic souls saved plus an ark full of animals. The overthrow destroyed everything, there was no man, the birds were fled, the fruitful place was a wilderness and the cities were broken down.

Genesis 7:11-16
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
KJV

1 Peter 3:20
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

Wait a minute, if this happened before Genesis 1:2, how could there be cities to be broken down?

There are several verses in the Bible telling us that our souls and spirits existed before the creation of this earth age:

Ephesians 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
KJV

The apostles were predestinated to Jesus Christ!

Peter gives very convincing scripture about the creation, destruction of the earth and about the havens and earth, which are now. Furthermore he is saying that we once knew! hence "stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance." And in verse 3:5 Peter states that "we willingly are ignorant." I am paraphrasing here, the entire scripture is listed below.

2 Peter Ch. 3
3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts

3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
KJV

There are a number of verses that promise

Mark 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
KJV

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
KJV

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
KJV

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
KJV

When you look up this word "eternal" in the Strong's concordance you will see that eternal live applies also to the past! You will live in all eternity past, present and future. For this to happen we must have existed before this life and before this earth age.

eternal: NT:166
aionios, ahee-o'-nee-os;
from NT:165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):
KJV - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV

Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

1 Peter 1:20-21
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
KJV

Three World Ages (bibleresearcher.org)
 
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Base12

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The Universe as we know it was created when Adam and Eve partook of the Forbidden Fruit.

Their 'eyes were opened'. Consciousness observed the Wave for the first time and collapsed it into Particles.

Science calls that moment "The Big Bang".

The Forbidden Fruit was the World Egg. Adam and Eve hatched it.
 
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pittsburghjoe

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The Universe as we know it was created when Adam and Eve partook of the Forbidden Fruit.

Their 'eyes were opened'. Consciousness observed the Wave for the first time and collapsed it into Particles.

Science calls that moment "The Big Bang".

The Forbidden Fruit was the World Egg. Adam and Eve hatched it.

Interesting point about the eyes being opened.

Something weird about wave collapse ..waves do not have a physical history until then. So it wouldn't be the Big Bang ..it would be Original Sin.
 

pittsburghjoe

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Ephesians 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
KJV

The apostles were predestinated to Jesus Christ!

Your whole post was very interesting. How do you know this part was only about the apostles and not everyone?


This link adds to what you are saying
Job 38:7 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary



about Job 38:4-7
God originally created the earth with such perfection and beauty that the angels shouted with joy! Our Creator does all things in an organized manner and completes all His works in exquisite splendor. But the earth had somehow become formless and chaotic so that God had to refashion it before man could be created.

WHAT?!?

Could Satan be the reason it ...went to hell?