We are dropping the pentagram.

[GaryAnderson]

I’m still confused and what is being said.

1. Is Edward saying that he’s Christ or God?
2. Is he saying that we all are Christ or Gods? Individually as Gods not as a group or a body?
3. Or are we In-Christ?

I believe the third.

 

[Edward Gordon]

Let's discuss your theology.

On what verses/ passages in the gospels do you base the teaching that we are Christ? Let's take a look at them together.

I didn't say we are Christ. As if we are automatically Christ. I said we must become Christ. It is the human purpose to become Christ. We become Christ by following Jesus Christ until we are one with Him.

We can start with these verses if you like.

John 1:12
John 6:52-59
John 14:3
John 16:23-24
John 17:11
John 17:22-23
Revelation 3:20

----
It was also clearly an early Christian belief:

Romans 8:9-17

 

[Cassandra]

I would most certainly consider the apostles as part of His body, and if Edward does not consider the New Testament epistles they wrote to be the word of God then it must mean he thinks they were operating outside of it, at least in this, while he himself operates within it.

So what you are saying here is that if the apostles are Christ, then what they wrote must be Christ teachings, too.

 

[Edward Gordon]

John 15: 1-11 for example

Excellent. I forgot that one!

 

[DuckieLady]

I didn't say we are Christ. As if we are automatically Christ. I said we must become Christ. It is the human purpose to become Christ. We become Christ by following Jesus Christ until we are one with Him.

We can start with these verses if you like.

John 1:12
John 6:52-59
John 14:3
John 16:23-24
John 17:11
John 17:22-23
Revelation 3:20

----
It was also clearly an early Christian belief:

Romans 8:9-17

None of these say what you are saying.

Without twisting it, just say it flat out according to scripture - in black in white. Plain as day.

Does the bride marry itself? What is the purpose of a groom?

 

[APAK]

Quick question. When we say “We are Christ”, what does that mean?
That we are God?

Of course not Gary. Being or are Christ is you being instead or representing Christ. English words are only so precise. We are intrinsically embedded within his spirit and He is in us, as us. Like Christ is in the bosom of the Father and the Father in him. They are not the same, except if you might be a Trinitarian. We can never be Christ as Christ can never be his Father, the one true God, right?!

 

[Edward Gordon]

Then you remain in dire and grave danger . Very deadly and very dangerous things you do teach .

 

[Cassandra]

I didn't say we are Christ. As if we are automatically Christ. I said we must become Christ. It is the human purpose to become Christ. We become Christ by following Jesus Christ until we are one with Him.

We can start with these verses if you like.

John 1:12
John 6:52-59
John 14:3
John 16:23-24
John 17:11
John 17:22-23
Revelation 3:20

----
It was also clearly an early Christian belief:

Romans 8:9-17

If we eventually become Christ, then is He no longer necessary for our salvation? We shall be able to save ourselves, and his blood will be of no use to us.

 

[Edward Gordon]

So what you are saying here is that if the apostles are Christ, then what they wrote must be Christ teachings, too.

I can't judge them. I often do... but I shouldn't. I can't say if one is in Christ or not. That's not my place. But it doesn't matter, in this case, because Veridicans read the Bible. I quote the Bible all the time. We canonize the life and teachings of Jesus Christ because we follow ONLY Him. So as a church founded on the concept of following ONLY Jesus Christ, we can't canonize a letter written by a man who was a Christian. Otherwise, why not canonize Joel Osteen's latest book? We can take it under advisement, certainly. We can learn from it. I agree with just about everything Paul says--but that's not the point. At the end of the day, it's the Life and Teachings of our Teacher who is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE.

 

[Wrangler]

Let's discuss your theology.

On what verses/ passages in the gospels do you base the teaching that we are Christ? Let's take a look at them together.

Sadly, I get the impression that you do not want to discuss - but rather debate- his theology.

These are two distinct and separate entities in this passage, meaning the two remain distinct in spiritual reality as well. Yes or no?

No. Are we children of God? If so, doesn't that mean God is a part of us, as we are a part of him - as it is with any Father and his children?

 

[Edward Gordon]

If we eventually become Christ, then is He no longer necessary for our salvation? We shall be able to save ourselves, and his blood will be of no use to us.

No. Salvation was the work of Jesus Christ. The work of Edward Christ is Veridicanism. I don't know what the work of Cassandra Christ is, but you would if you would accept Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't say we are Christ.

You did, Gordon.

either you are Christ, or you perish.

But thanks for clarifying with the following.

I said we must become Christ. It is the human purpose to become Christ.

Alright. I will take your verses one by one, but so you understand, the apostolic position is that we abide in Christ and that it is eventually not longer we who live but Christ who lives in us. This is a different position than claiming we "become" Christ, which no longer makes separation between Christ and the believer.

Gordon, if we are going to have a serious discussion, you gotta cut it out with these insulting things. I agree with him that you teach spiritually dangerous things and I have from the start. That doesn't mean I'm crazy. Let's keep this one free of insults if at all possible. I'd like to have a civil discussion on theology in this thread.

 

[Waiting on him]

No. Salvation was the work of Jesus Christ. The work of Edward Christ is Veridicanism. I don't know what the work of Cassandra Christ is, but you would if you would accept Christ.

We are to manifest Christ not some ism.

 

[Wrangler]

I’m still confused and what is being said.

1. Is Edward saying that he’s Christ or God?
2. Is he saying that we all are Christ or Gods? Individually as Gods not as a group or a body?
3. Or are we In-Christ?

I believe the third.

Are we in-Christ or is Christ in us?

 

[Hidden In Him]

No. Are we children of God? If so, doesn't that mean God is a part of us, as we are a part of him

To say "I have become part of the body of Christ" is the same thing as saying "I have become Christ"?

Sadly, I get the impression that you do not want to discuss - but rather debate- his theology.

Alright then, debate his theology. Is this a sin in your eyes?

 

[amigo de christo]

expound by proof in scripture and not emojis .

 

[GaryAnderson]

Are we in-Christ or is Christ in us?

We are in-Christ.

Galatians 3:26-28 gives us insight into the phrase “in Christ” and what it means. "In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia, reminding them of their new identity since they placed their faith in Jesus Christ. To be "baptized into Christ" means that they were identified with Christ, having left their old sinful lives and fully embracing the new life in Christ (Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23). When we respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing, He "baptizes" us into the family of God. First Corinthians 12:13 says, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."

 

[APAK]

Until we can grasp and fully understand that we must believe we are living and 'breathing' in the vine in the spirit of Christ we are just followers looking in, as observers outside the vine, or if somehow attached to it are not realizing we are being fed by the spirit of Christ of truth today. The Father wants fruit from his Son, his Body, and we are the producers of this spiritual fruit, else parts of the branches or the vine shall be cut off in the end.

(John 11:25-26 NASB) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? I certainty do and I live it today, by being Christ as he would want me to be....carrying the Cross as he did every day..JUST LIKE HIM, Being HIM.....and not just a follower, or an onlooker, as a part of the procession behind HIM with HIS Cross of salvation he carries ALONE.

 

[amigo de christo]

I can't judge them. I often do... but I shouldn't. I can't say if one is in Christ or not. That's not my place. But it doesn't matter, in this case, because Veridicans read the Bible. I quote the Bible all the time. We canonize the life and teachings of Jesus Christ because we follow ONLY Him. So as a church founded on the concept of following ONLY Jesus Christ, we can't canonize a letter written by a man who was a Christian. Otherwise, why not canonize Joel Osteen's latest book? We can take it under advisement, certainly. We can learn from it. I agree with just about everything Paul says--but that's not the point. At the end of the day, it's the Life and Teachings of our Teacher who is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE.

The gospels are solid truth , but they too were also written by men . LUKE wrote one , mark and mathew wrote one
JOHN himself wrote one . JOEL osteen is of darkness .
But back to the question at hand . Men copied down the truth as it was delivered unto them .
You claim you follow the gospels , but i say you follow men who Claim they do such a thing .
For if you truly followed and believed the gospels , well you would have known that what the apostels wrote
came of the same SPIRIT . You aint fooling folks my friend , only your self . You tried to pull one over on hidden in him
but he GOT YA . YOU DID SAY IF we claim we are NOT CHRIST then tried to down pedal . That sounds like a double mind to me .
The double minded man is unstable in all his ways .

 

[Edward Gordon]

I have to bring up the concept of monism, or we'll just keep going round and rond.

There is only God. In the end, there is only God. There has always only ever been God. Nothing else exists in reality compared to God. God is reality. And then God creates a sub-reality and all the things that have the appearance of being separate are actually modalities of the Substance (God). Read Spinoza. ...or listen to me.

So, Jesus is God. I am God. My Diet Coke can is God. The air you breath is God. Your cat is God, and so is the mosquito you swat. But those things being "modalities of the substance of God" does not mean that God is them (that would be pantheism, not monism). I am all God, but God is not just me.

With that in mind, we have to ask what Christ is. When we look at Jesus Christ, we see that he was God, but not like my dog is God, and not like I am God or you are God. He was God conscious of Himself within His physical universe.

There is no blasphemy here. In fact, there is the ultimate recognition of the kingdom, the power, and the glory of God forever.

God is the only thing that is real. He's the only thing that exists. There's never been a beginning, and there can be no end. God is existence for its own sake.

A warning before you disagree with me: I debated atheists for 20 years, and I have an argument they can't defeat. I call it the Veridican Argument for the Existence of God. But they can defeat the dualist Judeo-Christian god (I won't even capitalize it). The way most people think of God is as easy to refute as any of the Greek or Roman gods. In fact, I did something in my debates with atheists I've never seen anyone do. I ALSO created an argument that utterly disproves the classic Christian concept of God. That (g)od can't even be believed in rationally. It is self-contradictory.

And I'm telling you now: The reason you have such problems with your faith as you go through life is because you believe in a god that does not exist--and your mind knows it.

It's time to wake up.