What Are we Getting Saved From?

[Jack]

The Messiah of course....
I have no interest in Rashi's commentaries.

But you LOVE the WatchTower's Bible rewriting comments!

 

[Aunty Jane]

You need to pay attention to Jesus instead of JW's.
Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Your moronic comments are not worth the time of day to even address...on ignore now...

Your responses are a joke.....capable of one sentence replies like a two year old.....good grief!

You will know the truth one day.... Have a nice life.

 

[Jack]

Your moronic comments are not worth the time of day to even address...on ignore now...

Your responses are a joke.....capable of one sentence replies like a two year old.....good grief!

You will know the truth one day.... Have a nice life.

I quote Jesus and you call it "moronic". Yep, that's JW doctrine! Now come the personal attacks. How long did you say you were brainwashed by the WatchTower?

 

[Johann]

Uh

So, Enoch did not go to heaven because Jesus was the first one to experience a heavenly resurrection.
So where did Enoch go? To "sheol" where he would "sleep" peacefully until this whole mess is over. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

Uh, no, I can refute this with scriptures but it would be a waste of my time. There is NO soul sleep as most here advocate and some are adding and subtracting to the scriptures...Pro 16:11 Honest weights and scales are the LORD's; All the weights in the bag are His work.

I am well aware you love a good debate, but I am a man of few words AJ, a "two sentence" kind of guy.

 

[Johann]

If the Jews put their Messiah to death, and have never blessed the one who came in the name of Yahweh (whose name is mentioned twice in that verse) then after almost 2,000 years, what makes anyone think that there will be a last minute leap of faith?
They still cannot, even to this day, utter his name.

Forgetting Romans 11? A remnant.
If you want to debate AJ, we can do it in private.

 

[Johann]

Olde English is an abomination to me but I know people like it for some reason that escapes me....

I apologize, NKJV will suffice AJ.
No sarcasm.

 

[Johann]

I quote Jesus and you call it "moronic"

Careful Jack, all must be done in love.

 

[Johann]

The Messiah of course....

Praise YHVH

 

[Johann]

I have no interest in Rashi's commentaries.
I do not subscribe to the Jewish viewpoint on anything really....
We know who it was that Isaiah prophesied about, but the Jews are still waiting for their Messiah to even show up, let alone to expect his return.

Correct here...but

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Rom 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 "FOR WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD? OR WHO HAS BECOME HIS COUNSELOR?"
Rom 11:35 "OR WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM AND IT SHALL BE REPAID TO HIM?"
Rom 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

 

[Johann]

But you LOVE the WatchTower's Bible rewriting comments!

Careful brother, no personal attacks.

 

[JohnPaul]

You need to pay attention to Jesus instead of JW's.
Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

That's who I and Jehovah's Witnesses pay attention to, and also Jehovah.

 

[keithr]

You authored it?

No! You were not paying attention! I said, "I'll include an article about this parable that I downloaded from the Internet about 22 years ago (but it doesn't appear to be available anymore)". If I had written it then I would not have needed to download it from the Internet, and the comment about the article no longer being available (because the website no longer exists) would make no sense.

How evasive. You never read about Lazarus, Moses and Abraham in the Bible?

Of course I have read about them. However, the only Biblical person named Lazarus is mentioned in John chapters 11 and 12. He lived in Bethany with his sisters Mary and Martha, ("It was that Mary who had anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair", John 11:2). "Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus" (John 14:5), and Jesus said to his disciuples, "Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep".

Lazarus is a Greek form of the Hebrew name Eleazar, who was Aaron's son. There is no Biblical person named Lazarus who was a beggar, apart from the fictional person that Jesus referred to in his parable in Luke 16.

Again evasive. Eternal means NEVER ending. As in "forever and ever".

I was not being evasive, and I was not even contesting the meaning of the word eternal. I was explaining what the eternal punishment was, hence my clear, straightforward statement "so the eternal punishment mentioned in Matthew 25:46 is eternal death". I don't know why you could not understand that.

You conveniently stopped reading.
Revelation 20 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

No I didn't. I quoted Revelation 20:14-15, and I stopped there because that is the end of the chapter and the passage. You appear to be referring to verse 10, the section about the defeat of Satan.

Total destruction? You made that up. Death in the Bible NEVER means "cease to exist".

The beast mentioned in chapter 17 is said "to go into destruction". In Revelation 19:20 it says that the beast was "thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur". The lake of fire is symbolic of total destruction. Revelation 20:14 says, "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire". The second death is total destruction. Death and hades are also symbolically destroyed by the fire, meaning that there will be no more death (Revelation 21:4), and no more need for hades/sheol. Satan too is to be destroyed (he too is thrown into the lake of fire) - Hebrews 2:14 (KJV):

(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Revelation 20:10 (WEB):
(10) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

Their symbolic torment in the fire, which is symbolic of destructon, will last forever, meaning that there is no chance of them ever living again.

As John 3:16 says, there are only two outcomes - everlasting life, or to perish (be destroyed forever):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation 20 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever

man, reading Bibles in English is just not so good an idea i guess
do yourself a favor imo, and go find out what this v is really saying before you die

 

[Aunty Jane]

Uh, no, I can refute this with scriptures but it would be a waste of my time. There is NO soul sleep as most here advocate and some are adding and subtracting to the scriptures...Pro 16:11 Honest weights and scales are the LORD's; All the weights in the bag are His work.

You are welcome to provide your refutations.
I find no scripture that supports a continuation of life after death for any but the very last of the elect who are alive on earth when Christ returns.

I am well aware you love a good debate, but I am a man of few words AJ, a "two sentence" kind of guy.

Those who debate with two sentences are not genuine debaters....they are interjectors....maybe hecklers, but not serious debaters. “Copy and pasters” are lazy and show contempt for their opponents IMO.

We should just present the facts as we understand them....civilly and with no need for unnecessary negativity. We don’t need to badger people....like Jesus we just present the facts and allow the individuals to make up their own minds. That way debates are useful. Jesus said he came to cause division....but in the best way. The “sheep and the goats” at this point in time are revealing themselves.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Forgetting Romans 11? A remnant.
If you want to debate AJ, we can do it in private.

For debates to be of value they must be public....private debates only benefit two people and only if the evidence is accepted with open minds and hearts.....

Please present your evidence and I will provide mine...OK...?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Correct here...but

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Rom 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 "FOR WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD? OR WHO HAS BECOME HIS COUNSELOR?"
Rom 11:35 "OR WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM AND IT SHALL BE REPAID TO HIM?"
Rom 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

The question here is....who is Israel? Who did Paul identify as “the Israel of God”? (Galatians 6:16)

 

[Johann]

The question here is....who is Israel? Who did Paul identify as “the Israel of God”? (Galatians 6:16)

Good question
Who is Israel
the Israel of God. The antithesis of Israel after the flesh

the Israel of God. The antithesis of Israel after the flesh (1Co_10:18) [CB]. T974x. *Gal_3:7-9; *Gal_3:28; *Gal_3:29, *Psa_24:6 note. Psa_73:1, Isa_44:5; Isa_45:25, Jer_31:31; **+Jer_33:20; **+Jer_33:21, Hos_1:10, Mat_2:6, +**Luk_1:32; +**Luk_1:33; +Luk_12:32 (T959x, T972x). *Joh_1:47, +*Rom_2:28; +*Rom_2:29 note. Rom_4:11-12; Rom_4:16; Rom_7:4; *Rom_9:6-9; %+*Rom_11:26; Rom_11:27, %1Co_10:18, Eph_2:15, Php_3:3, Col_2:11, 1Pe_2:5-10, Rev_5:9-10, Rev_7:4 x, Rev_14:1-4 x, Rev_20:6.
Do me a favor, go through the scriptures, in context, and let's discuss

 

[Johann]

For debates to be of value they must be public....private debates only benefit two people and only if the evidence is accepted with open minds and hearts.....

Please present your evidence and I will provide mine...OK...?

Whatever you say AJ.

 

[Johann]

Those who debate with two sentences are not genuine debaters....they are interjectors....maybe hecklers, but not serious debaters. “Copy and pasters” are lazy and show contempt for their opponents IMO.

Really, you lump me in this class?

 

[Johann]

The “sheep and the goats” at this point in time are revealing themselves.

In what way?
Who are the real sheep and who are the goats?
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
but the goats. Lev_3:12, 2Ki_10:23, Eze_34:17, Zec_10:3.
on the left. **Mat_25:41.


the sheep: Psa_79:13, Psa_95:7, Psa_100:3; Joh_10:26-28, Joh_21:15-17
his: Gen_48:13-14, Gen_48:17-19; Psa_45:9, Psa_110:1; Mar_16:19; Act_2:34-35; Eph_1:20; Heb_1:3