What are we today?

[Job]

Jesus rarely spoke to a Gentile.

He speaks to gentiles everyday through the scriptures.

 

[bbyrd009]

***

Explain how God's grace can be practiced.

as i said, by availing oneself of grace; recognizing when you have wronged someone and apologizing, asking for forgiveness, offering to remedy it however the offended party wants, etc.

which does not happen in a confessional closet either btw

 

[bbyrd009]

So you add a person's work to that of Jesus' work on the cross which means He did not really accomplish our salvation by what He did because a person must add what a he/she does.

definitely. And there is plenty of Scripture for this, too. It is a mischaracterization to believe that grace is provided to the unrepentant; it is not. The unrepentant get "an eye for an eye."

if you cannot admit when you are wrong--which of course requires that you first see that you are wrong in a matter, and who does that lol--then you are lost, no matter how many times you cry LordLord.

 

[bbyrd009]

But I see that you include what Peter said to the Jews at Pentecost as being under grace; which it isn't.

i don't know the reference, sorry, could you quote it, ty

 

[ScottA]

In the 4 gospels Jesus told Peter to feed His Sheep and Lambs. These were the Jews who were His people.

Today, under grace, the children of God are not His Sheep or Lambs. We are "the body of Christ" and sons of God. As sons we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

Rom 8:15-17
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,"Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

Eph 4:14-16
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head — Christ —
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
NKJV

I would say that the distinction between "sheep/lambs" and "sons", is more a matter of whether or not one is "born again of the spirit of God." If "born again", then "sons." If "seeking" and "hearing", then "sheep/lambs."

"Where are we today?" ...That puts us in the "times of the gentiles", the "other fold", when "God shall pour out his spirit upon all flesh."

 

[H. Richard]

It looks, to me, that people do not read the scripture and see the whole truth.

There was a time in the garden
There was a time when God judged and destroyed everyone on earth except for 8 souls.
There was a time between Noah and Abraham where there were only Gentiles on the earth.
God started two new races of people thru Abraham, Jews and Arabs.
God chose to deal with the Jews as His people. Gentiles and Arabs were the enemies of the Jews.
God made a covenant with the Jews, not the Gentiles and not the Arabs.
In His covenant with the Jews God made the Jews (Israel) promises.
One of these promises was a Messiah that would set up a Jewish kingdom on this earth.
Jesus came to set up the promised Jewish kingdom. He did not come to the Gentiles. He said so twice.
Since the Jews, Israel, rejected Jesus as their Messiah and king God set them aside and has brought in the Gentiles.
He did not place the Gentiles under the Jewish covenant which included the law of Moses. They are under God's FREE gift of salvation based on their faith in what Jesus did on the cross ALONE.
There is nothing in the 4 gospels that states the law was set aside. This is only found in the writings of Paul.
People, today, must decide if they are going to place their faith in His work on the cross or in their religion that can't seem to see that God has dealt with mankind in different ways in the different ages.
Religions will not see the words HIDDEN IN GOD, in Paul's writings because it shows that the church of His body started with Paul, not Peter.
To see that the church of His body started with Paul makes the theology of the RCC to be built on the wrong apostle.
The protestant religions just continued this deception.

This is how I see it after my 75 years of actually reading the scriptures to see what they say, not what men say they say.

 

[FHII]

***

What do you make of it? Does it make those under grace sheep? You chose, are you a sheep or a joint heir with Christ and therefore a child of God?

Seems to me Jesus was speaking of the gentiles in this verse.

Like someone pointed out earlier: we are referred to as many things. Kings and priests, sons, heirs of God, saints, brethren, etc...

Even Paul said we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

I reckon we are sheep as long as we need a shepherd's care.

 

[aspen]

Well, are you hoping to be on the right hand of God with the sheep on Judgment Day or with the goats?

 

[pia]

People will have to chose one or the other. They are sheep or Children of God. A person today can not be saved under the Jewish covenant. Under the Jewish covenant Jesus will return and give the Jews their promised kingdom on this earth. But those under grace are not a part of that kingdom. According to Paul our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven with God.

The message of God's grace in His work on the cross is what saves today. Jesus and the 11 (12) never rescinded the Law of Moses or Jewish Temple worship. As a matter of fact James is still teaching the Jewish program in Acts 21:20. In Acts 21:20 the believing Jews were up in arms because Paul was telling Jews that they were on longer under the Law.

It is true today in that when anyone says we should not base our theology on the 4 gospels since those gospels are a record of Jesus fulfilling the law for us people will not hear it.. Paul was sent to the world with a new message of God's grace based entirely on faith, belief, trust and confidence in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. But religious man will not place their faith in God's work alone. They place their faith in their religions.

Doesn't Jesus mention that He has another fold of sheep of which they know nothing. Can't think of the scripture to go with this, just fairly certain I have seen that somwewhere ?

 

[Job]

Doesn't Jesus mention that He has another fold of sheep

John 10
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

 

[pia]

John 10
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

That's it. Thank you for that

 

[pia]

Doesn't Jesus mention that He has another fold of sheep of which they know nothing. Can't think of the scripture to go with this, just fairly certain I have seen that somwewhere ?

It also just now occurred to me that we are called lots of different things. His sheep, His lambs, His Bride, Joint Heirs with Christ, Seated in the Heavenly realm with Christ, Saints of Christ, Servants of Christ, Brothers ans Sisters in Christ. I am sure I have missed a couple, but you get my drift. I for one am happy to just follow after Him, as if I were a sheep, because I found out a long time ago, that He knows what's ahead, He will protect me and always does what's best for me. What do I need to take charge for ? If He desires something, He is capable of asking, I can vouch for that.....

 

[Job]

It is true today in that when anyone says we should not base our theology on the 4 gospels

This is so stupid. You tell us to discard the teachings of Jesus, yet you quote from the Gospels in some of your posts. That's like inviting everyone over to Ricky's Rib Shack after the Vegan Conference.

 

[H. Richard]

Well, are you hoping to be on the right hand of God with the sheep on Judgment Day or with the goats?

***
Wrong!

We are "IN CHRST" who is sitting at the right hand of. Only Paul penned the words that we are "IN CHRIST" and the Holy Spirit is IN US.

 

[H. Richard]

Doesn't Jesus mention that He has another fold of sheep of which they know nothing. Can't think of the scripture to go with this, just fairly certain I have seen that somwewhere ?

***
You have made an assumption and trying to use it as a truth. Show me where Jesus said His other sheep are the Gentiles. Since Jesus only came to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (He said this in two places) I find it to rule out that He was speaking of the Gentiles.

 

[H. Richard]

It also just now occurred to me that we are called lots of different things. His sheep, His lambs, His Bride, Joint Heirs with Christ, Seated in the Heavenly realm with Christ, Saints of Christ, Servants of Christ, Brothers ans Sisters in Christ. I am sure I have missed a couple, but you get my drift. I for one am happy to just follow after Him, as if I were a sheep, because I found out a long time ago, that He knows what's ahead, He will protect me and always does what's best for me. What do I need to take charge for ? If He desires something, He is capable of asking, I can vouch for that.....

***
It is HOW a person is following after Him that matters. If it is trying to please Him by what the person does. it negates what Jesus has already done.

Today a child of God follows by placing their faith in His work on the cross, not on their works in religion.

I don't know if you have seen the movie "FURY" about a tank crew in WW11 but in it there was a conversation between one of the original crew and a new person. The original asked the new person "are you saved?" and the new person said "I have been baptized". Another of the crew said that was not the question. Then the new guy said "I go to church."

This seems to be what many in religions would say today because they are taught these thing will save them. It is all about what they do in religion. Not much about the work of God on the cross which accomplished all that is necessary for a person to be saved.

 

[H. Richard]

This is so stupid. You tell us to discard the teachings of Jesus, yet you quote from the Gospels in some of your posts. That's like inviting everyone over to Ricky's Rib Shack after the Vegan Conference.

***
Stupid!!! Jesus said He only came to the house of Israel but you say everything He said is to us too. That is stupid.

Jesus sent Saul/Paul into the world preaching a HIDDEN GOSPEL OF GOD"S GRACE BASED ON THE SHED BLOOD OF HIS SON ON THE CROSS.

This HIDDEN GOSPEL was not what Jesus or the 11 (!!) preached to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses. This HIDDEN GOSPEL was based entirely on the work of His Son on the cross. Everyone who places their faith and trust in His work to save them will be saved.

You must "RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH" not blend it all together. The scriptures tell us all scripture is for our learning but not all of it is to us under grace. If people refuse to see the difference they will continue to mix apples with oranges.

 

[H. Richard]

Well, are you hoping to be on the right hand of God with the sheep on Judgment Day or with the goats?

***
IF you read the scriptures for understanding you will see that the "sheep and goat" judgement is on the Gentile nations. It is based on the Abrahamic promise to Abraham where God said "I will bless those who bless you and curse them that curse you.'

People just can't see that the child of God has already been made a child of God and this judgement is not for them. It is to separate the Gentiles who did, or did not, help the nation of Israel when they were in need. The sheep will go into the Jewish kingdom that Jesus will set up for a 1000 years on this earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

They are under God's FREE gift of salvation based on their faith in what Jesus did on the cross ALONE.

It is a mischaracterization to believe that grace is provided to the unrepentant; it is not. The unrepentant get "an eye for an eye."

...no matter what they "believe."

 

[bbyrd009]

Today a child of God follows by placing their faith in His work on the cross

i'm not buying it, with all due respect; sounds like "belief" to me, not faith. Christ did not command us to "pick up your cross, and follow" for nothing.