What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Kermos]

Not so fast.....
Exodus 3:13-15 in the Complete Tanakh renders these verses....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"


14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)" and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"


15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864
Are you going to tell Jews how to interpret their own scripture? Seriously?


Not necessarily so. I know its your favorite trumpet to blow, but its not correct.....it is completely out of harmony with everything Jesus said about himself.


How about YOU look at these verses in the Complete Jewish Tanakh....?

YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 26:3, YLT)
"Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you, and I will bless you, for to you and to your seed will I give all these lands, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham, your father."

YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 31:3, YLT)
"And the Lord said to Jacob, "Return to the land of your forefathers and to your birthplace, and I will be with you."

YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Exodus 3:12, YLT)
"And He said, "For I will be with you, and this is the sign for you that it was I Who sent you. When you take the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this mountain."

YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:12, YLT)
"So now, go! I will be with your mouth, and I will instruct you what you shall speak."

YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:15, YLT)
"You shall speak to him, and you shall put the words into his mouth, and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will instruct you [both] what you shall do."

YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Deuteronomy 31:23, YLT)
"And He commanded Joshua the son of Nun, and said: "Be strong and courageous! For you shall bring the children of Israel to the land that I have sworn to them, and I will be with you."

You keep barking up this tree when there is nothing to bark at.....you are mistaken and it is you who is trying to make the Bible say what Jesus never did.


No, that is not what the Bible says at all......you are trying, like all trinitarians, to make Jesus into God....and you will grasp at straws to make it so.
These are two different scriptures, spoken in two different languages, and conveyed to people of different faiths and different beliefs....yet each claimed to worship the same God....the God and Father of Jesus Christ.....the one Jesus said was "the only true God". (John 17:3)

When Jesus said in John 14:28..."If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
Why is it not rendered "the Father is greater than I am"? Because that is what he meant.....do you see what would have happened if Jesus had said "I am" there? It would be saying that God is greater than God.

The Mounce Interlinear renders John 14:28....
If ei you loved agapaō me egō, you would an have rejoiced chairō, because hoti I am going poreuō to pros the ho Father patēr, for hoti the ho Father patēr is eimi greater megas than I egō."
In order to make English coherent, the translators had to add words to make it flow....do you see "I am" inserted there where there is no Greek to support it?

Here again in John 8:42 Jesus says....
"Jesus Iēsous said legō to them autos, · ho “ If ei · ho God theos were eimi your hymeis Father patēr, you would an love agapaō me egō, for gar I egō came exerchomai from ek · ho God theos and kai now I am here hēkō. I have erchomai not oude come erchomai on apo my emautou own , but alla he ekeinos sent apostellō me egō."

"I am" is inserted in the English text...and we see that "egō" can mean either, "I" or "me".....


I don't think you would know a non-sequitor if you fell over one....you're like a broken record.

Who are you to call people "evil liars" when you yourself are promoting something Jesus never once said he was...... ?

So, according to you, YHWH God did not exist at the time of Exodus 3:14 because you say it is "I will be what I will be", and that's your foolishness.

You fabricated false Hebrew grammar to destroy the complete God - all in your heart.

The Jews are opposed to Jesus for Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God, and this appears to be the reason chabad.org renders only "ehyeh" and "asher" as transliterated text in the English with parentheticals for translation. If the Jews at chabad.org really think "ehyeh" means "I will be", then they should remove the transliterated words and parentheses, but then they know they would be corrupting the very Word of God because it is really "I AM Who I AM" in Exodus 3:14. I suspect this is why they treated ehyeh differently in Exodus 4:15, that is, without transliterations or parentheses. You are appealing to Jews who clearly oppose Yeshua the Messiah.

The old debunked and worn out and evil Watchtower Society Exodus 3:14 delusion is presented by you. You people do not understand Hebrew, then you deceive each other and you deceive yourself (2 Timothy 3:13).

The Hebrew word אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (eyheh, am, Strong's 1961) is an imperfect verb, and this word is translated "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 (the "I" occurs because eyheh is singular in Hebrew).

A perfect verb is a word that conveys a completed action; in other words, an action that occurred in the past.

An imperfect verb is a word that conveys an incomplete action; in other words, an action occurs past into present, present, and/or future.

With the imperfect verb eyheh being used for the Name of the One who is and who was and who is to come, then we use I AM for eyheh in English because YHWH God is I AM in the past and YHWH God is I AM in the present and YHWH God is I AM in the future.

You're contrivance of eyheh being "I will be" indicates that you think that YHWH God will become YHWH God at some time in the future after YHWH God speaks to Moses at the burning bush.

In other words, you think that YHWH God has to be created! This is according to your words of "I will be" for eyheh.

See where your contrivance leads.

"I AM Who I AM" is the accurate translation for Exodus 3:14 of the Hebrew TaNaKh - the Hebrew Bible, and here is the full of Exodus 3:14:

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15).

All three of the phrases "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 are eyheh; therefore, the Word of God assigns the name "I AM" to YHWH God.

Now look at these other TaNaKh scriptures which use ehyeh and see how "I am" is the accurate translation:
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 26:3, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 31:3, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Exodus 3:12, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:12, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:15, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Deuteronomy 31:23, YLT)

Truthfully (John 14:6), the declaration by YHWH God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) is directly referred to by Jesus in "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) such that Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God.

 

[Peterlag]

A soul is a person. A person is a soul. Your convoluted confusion projects your denial of the soul.

Even worse, you seem to equate a horse with God.

"Soul is person", a practical example showing that John proclaims Jesus the Word is God in John 1:1.

Examine this statement "my soul is with my person, and my soul is person" which mirrors "the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). The concluding word "person" in the statement is a noun representing the class of things called persons, that is, a classification.

Examining "with", not only is my soul with my person, but my soul is classified as person. This applies to every person.

Similarly, the word "with" in John 1:1 shows that not only was the Word with God, but the word is classified as God. There is only one God (Isaiah 45:5), so the Word is God.

In case you missed it, "my soul is with my person" is two things at one time, so your statement is proved false.

Furthermore, and most importantly, GOD SAYS JESUS IS TWO OF SOMETHING AT THE SAME TIME as shown elsewhere in this thread.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

I am made up of there parts... body, soul, and spirit. So does that mean I'm 3 different people in one.

 

[BeyondET]

I am made up of there parts... body, soul, and spirit. So does that mean I'm 3 different people in one.

Are you God?

 

[RLT63]

I am made up of there parts... body, soul, and spirit. So does that mean I'm 3 different people in one.

No you are one, like the Trinity. Thanks for the example.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, according to you, YHWH God did not exist at the time of Exodus 3:14 because you say it is "I will be what I will be", and that's your foolishness.

You just always seem to regurgitate the same old debunked verbage you put into every post...its almost like God said nothing else but what you have read in Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, yet the two are not connected in any way. Its like your obsession....but its bogus.

You fabricated false Hebrew grammar to destroy the complete God - all in your heart.

What??? You have no idea who gave you your three in one 'godhead'.....it wasn't Jesus or his apostles. It was an apostate church, hundreds of years after Jesus died. He foretold it, and yet you don't believe it happened. You are part of it...defending its errors.

The Jews are opposed to Jesus for Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God

Nonsense. Jesus NEVER declared himself to be God....not once.

John 10:31-36...
"31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

He called himself "the son of God" after he confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel "gods". The word "god' (theos) does not mean what you think it does.
Those judges were authorized by God to represent him to his people.....Jesus likewise can be a "god", as one divinely authorized by his God and Father to represent him on the earth.

Look up the primary definition of "theos" in Strongs Concordance....it says "theos" means......."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities."
Perhaps you need to learn the difference between "deity" and "divinity"?

You are appealing to Jews who clearly oppose Yeshua the Messiah.

I am showing you that in the Hebrew scriptures, the ones that Paul said were "inspired of God and beneficial for teaching" are not calling Yahweh "I Am" because the Jews already knew who their God was before they left Egypt. They had seen his miracles and heard Moses speak on his behalf. They saw Moses' face when he came down from the mountain....why would he tell them "I AM" in Exodus 3:14, when they already knew who he was? He was enlarging on the meaning of his name to show them what he would "be" or "become" to them as his chosen nation. It was about Yahweh fulfilling his purpose towards them....bringing forth his Messiah....dealing with his people when they disobeyed him and showing them who he was capable of being in order to fulfill his covenant.

In John 8:56-58 the Jews had asked a question about his age, not his status as a deity.....

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
It makes no logical or grammatical sense to say "I AM" when Strongs tells us...
"εἰμί eimí, i-mee'; the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was."
It is grammatically correct to say "I have been" or "I was", which would have answered their question correctly. There is no trinity in his statement.

The old debunked and worn out and evil Watchtower Society Exodus 3:14 delusion is presented by you.

Wouldn't it be amazing if you found out that you were the one with a delusion that was planted centuries ago and you never knew....you just swallowed the party live in exactly the same way that you accuse us of doing.....there is a certain kind of blindness I guess. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

You people do not understand Hebrew, then you deceive each other and you deceive yourself (2 Timothy 3:13).

....perhaps that is just what happened to you....?

You're contrivance of eyheh being "I will be" indicates that you think that YHWH God will become YHWH God at some time in the future after YHWH God speaks to Moses at the burning bush.

That goes to show you how well you actually listen to what is said to you.....perhaps take your fingers out of your ears....?

"I will be what I will be" is God telling his people what he will be in order to become what he promised them...a deliverer who sent his son to die for them.....and later for the whole world. Abraham was given a promise....a covenant.....that was to stretch way into the future....
Genesis 22:17-18...
"That I will surely bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand that is on the seashore, and your descendants will inherit the cities of their enemies.

18 And through your children shall be blessed all the nations of the world, because you hearkened to My voice."

In other words, you think that YHWH God has to be created! This is according to your words of "I will be" for eyheh.

Do you also have comprehension problems? That is not even close to anything I said.
The uncreated and eternal Yahweh, brought his "firstborn" into existence before he created any other things, either in heaven or on the earth. (Colossians 1:15-17)
At Revelation 3:14, Jesus calls himself..."the Beginning of the creation of God" (NKJV) "Beginning".....not beginner...."origin"...not originator.

See where your contrivance leads.

See where your own contrivance leads....nothing you believe is what Jesus taught.....your own beliefs are contrived by a counterfeit church that you never question. Sadly, that is your loss.

 

[Wrangler]

You're clearly, desperately intent on ignoring what's plain to see: that Jesus wasn't merely claiming to be older than Abraham, because if He did, He would have said, "Before Abraham was, I WAS".

A difference without a distinction. Saying I was or I am is still no claim of being God no matter how much you pretend it is.

 

[Kermos]

I am made up of there parts... body, soul, and spirit. So does that mean I'm 3 different people in one.

So, now it sounds like you do believe in the soul.

Man has three referentials: body, soul, and spirit.

God has three referentials: the Father, Jesus the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

God is not man, so you cannot limit God.

"Soul is person", a practical example showing that John proclaims Jesus the Word is God in John 1:1.

Examine this statement "my soul is with my person, and my soul is person" which mirrors "the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). The concluding word "person" in the statement is a noun representing the class of things called persons, that is, a classification.

Examining "with", not only is my soul with my person, but my soul is classified as person. This applies to every person.

Similarly, the word "with" in John 1:1 shows that not only was the Word with God, but the word is classified as God. There is only one God (Isaiah 45:5), so the Word is God.

In case you missed it, "my soul is with my person" is two things at one time, so your statement is proved false.

Furthermore, and most importantly, GOD SAYS JESUS IS TWO OF SOMETHING AT THE SAME TIME as shown elsewhere in this thread.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

 

[Matthias]

No you are one, like the Trinity. Thanks for the example.

I’ve never met him but I’m confident enough to say that he is not three persons.

I’m also formally educated in theology and know that the doctrine of the Trinity doesn’t teach that the Trinity is made up of three parts.

P.S.

From a trinitarian source.

“… this one God is not made up of ‘three parts’ - ….”

Was the Trinity Torn Apart at the Cross?

 

[Phoneman777]

A difference without a distinction. Saying I was or I am is still no claim of being God no matter how much you pretend it is.

There's no greater butchering of the English or ANY language than to say, "Before you were, I AM".

It makes no sense...it's not proper syntax...it's not the proper way to communicate.

"Before you were, I WAS" is the correct way to communicate the fact of one's preexistence of another.
"Before Abraham was, I AM" is how the Everlasting Father Jesus Christ tells us that He was there in the beginning before the first creature.

 

[Wrangler]

There's no greater butchering of the English or ANY language than to say, "Before you were, I AM".

I is sure me canna butcher ‘da worsa. Point is, you be reading what ain’t there, for God did not say I is to Moses. So, there ain’t being no correlation, don’t you know?

By contrast, explicit Scripture states Jesus is the son of God and his God has a personal name, which is not Jesus.

 

[Kermos]

You just always seem to regurgitate the same old debunked verbage you put into every post...its almost like God said nothing else but what you have read in Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, yet the two are not connected in any way. Its like your obsession....but its bogus.



What???  You have no idea who gave you your three in one 'godhead'.....it wasn't Jesus or his apostles. It was an apostate church, hundreds of years after Jesus died. He foretold it, and yet you don't believe it happened. You are part of it...defending its errors.



Nonsense. Jesus NEVER declared himself to be God....not once.


John 10:31-36...

"31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”



33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”



34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?


He called himself "the son of God" after he confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel "gods". The word "god' (theos) does not mean what you think it does.

Those judges were authorized by God to represent him to his people.....Jesus likewise can be a "god", as one divinely authorized by his God and Father to represent him on the earth.


Look up the primary definition of "theos" in Strongs Concordance....it says "theos" means......."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities."

Perhaps you need to learn the difference between "deity" and "divinity"? 



I am showing you that in the Hebrew scriptures, the ones that Paul said were "inspired of God and beneficial for teaching" are not calling Yahweh "I Am" because the Jews already knew who their God was before they left Egypt. They had seen his miracles and heard Moses speak on his behalf. They saw Moses' face when he came down from the mountain....why would he tell them "I AM" in Exodus 3:14, when they already knew who he was? He was enlarging on the meaning of his name to show them what he would "be" or "become" to them as his chosen nation. It was about Yahweh fulfilling his purpose towards them....bringing forth his Messiah....dealing with his people when they disobeyed him and showing them who he was capable of being in order to fulfill his covenant.


In John 8:56-58 the Jews had asked a question about his age, not his status as a deity.....



"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”



58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

It makes no logical or grammatical sense to say "I AM" when Strongs tells us...

"εἰμί eimí, i-mee'; the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was."

It is grammatically correct to say "I have been" or "I was", which would have answered their question correctly. There is no trinity in his statement.



Wouldn't it be amazing if you found out that you were the one with a delusion that was planted centuries ago and you never knew....you just swallowed the party live in exactly the same way that you accuse us of doing.....there is a certain kind of blindness I guess. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)



....perhaps that is just what happened to you....?



That goes to show you how well you actually listen to what is said to you.....perhaps take your fingers out of your ears....?


"I will be what I will be" is God telling his people what he will be in order to become what he promised them...a deliverer who sent his son to die for them.....and later for the whole world. Abraham was given a promise....a covenant.....that was to stretch way into the future....

Genesis 22:17-18...

"That I will surely bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand that is on the seashore, and your descendants will inherit the cities of their enemies.


18 And through your children shall be blessed all the nations of the world, because you hearkened to My voice."



Do you also have comprehension problems? That is not even close to anything I said.

The uncreated and eternal Yahweh, brought his "firstborn" into existence before he created any other things, either in heaven or on the earth. (Colossians 1:15-17)

At Revelation 3:14, Jesus calls himself..."the Beginning of the creation of God" (NKJV) "Beginning".....not beginner...."origin"...not originator.



See where your own contrivance leads....nothing you believe is what Jesus taught.....your own beliefs are contrived by a counterfeit church that you never question. Sadly, that is your loss.

You lie in your opening paragraph. The Hebrew word "ehyeh" includes the PRESENT TIME PERSPECTIVE, so "ehyeh" means "I AM" as shown to your lying person again and again. With "ehyeh" translated according to legal grammar rules, we find:

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15).
​

Hundreds of years later, Jesus says:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).
​

There is no beginning of days for Jesus according to His words in John 8:58, but you hate Him with His words when you preach that He has a beginning of days.

Truthfully (John 14:6), the declaration by YHWH God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) is directly referred to by Jesus in "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) such that Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God.

You practice lawlessness throughout your post, for example, your foolish words that Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'" per your deception about John 10:34 where Jesus refers back to "I said, 'You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High'" (Psalm 82:6).

Now, who is the "I" in "I said" in Psalm 82:6? The "I" is Asaph (Psalm 82:1), so the quote in Psalm 82:6 is not God the Father speaking; therefore, you LIED when you wrote that Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'"!

In John 10:34-36, Jesus, who is God (John 1:1-3, John 1:14, John 5:18, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, 2 Peter 1:1), rebukes the Jews, and He refers back to the psalmist rebuking the Jews (Psalm 82:6). In fact, here is what Asaph said that Asaph said ““You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High, Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.” (Psalm 82:6-7); in other words, both Asaph and Jesus told the people that they are no gods at all and them that they know not righteousness (Psalm 82:1-5) for God is not like a man that dies and God knows righteousness. Like the Jews @Aunty Jane, you cannot judge what is right (Luke 12:57). The context of the people NOT being “gods” is clear in John 10:34-36 and Psalm 82:6-7.

As is evident in John 10:34-36 based on the above Truth (John 14:6), Lord and God Jesus (John 20:28) was not saying that there are potentially additional gods before the One True God as you preach, but rather Jesus eliminates the potential for the Jews to be gods.

While Jesus told the Jews that they are not gods, the Apostle John expressed that Jesus is God (John 1:1). The context for “God” is clear in John 1:1 for there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), and the word “theos” can be used in a variety of contexts.

Now, back to "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) - and you deny Jesus the I AM - and Jesus the I AM says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24). You are in dire straights, Aunty Jane!

Your deception is like leaven that blows your post to pieces.

 

[Phoneman777]

I is sure me canna butcher ‘da worsa. Point is, you be reading what ain’t there, for God did not say I is to Moses. So, there ain’t being no correlation, don’t you know?

By contrast, explicit Scripture states Jesus is the son of God and his God has a personal name, which is not Jesus.

Do you talk like that? Would you say to a small child, "Before you were, I am", or do you say, "Before you were, I was"?

Oh, you'd say, "I was" and not "I am"? Why?

See what I did there? I made you admit that there's only one way to say it without appearing incredibly foolish.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you talk like that?

Yes and so do a lot of other people, including Jesus at Mark 14:61-62

High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One?
Jesus: 62 I am. ​

For some reason, you do not accept Jesus' 'I am' statement here to be definitive. What makes this bizarre is this "I am" is explicitly identifying who he is where as the I am before Abraham is more vague, giving you the opportunity to read into it whatever you want.

Oh, you'd say, "I was" and not "I am"? Why?

See what I did there? I made you admit that there's only one way to say it without appearing incredibly foolish.

Pretending to put words in my mouth does not make me look foolish. Jesus explicitly said he is God's Anointed, he has a God and his God is the only true God. Why is this not good enough for you?

 

[Peterlag]

Pretending to put words in my mouth does not make me look foolish. Jesus explicitly said he is God's Anointed, he has a God and his God is the only true God. Why is this not good enough for you?[/QUOTE]

There has to be a reason why so many believe Jesus is God. I can't get anyone to tell me why they need to believe that. All they say is because the Bible says so and then quote John 1:1 that makes no sense.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes and so do a lot of other people

Nobody talks like that: nobody lays past and present tense next to one another in such statements of contrast for the simple reason that it sounds ridiculous, as the following illustrates:

"Before you did it, I do" sounds ridiculous. "Before you did it, I've done it" is appropriate.

"Before you went, I go" sounds ridiculous. "Before you went, I've gone" is appropriate.

"Before you sang it, I sing it" sounds ridiculous. "Before you sang, I've sung it" is appropriate.

What have we learned? Such statements demand verb tense agreement. The reason why Jesus deliberately deviated from this is because it was more important to show not only did He exist before Abraham, but that He was GOD ALMIGHTY from before Abraham to eternity past.

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins."

 

[Wrangler]

Nobody talks like that

Not true.

Even if true, it is irrelevant.

Jesus died. That’s how we know he’s not God. No reading into common admissions, like I am is going to change that. And what is the answer to my question? Jesus explicitly said he is God's Anointed, he has a God and his God is the only true God. Why is this not good enough for you?

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus died. That’s how we know he’s not God. No reading into common admissions, like I am is going to change that. And what is the answer to my question? Jesus explicitly said he is God's Anointed, he has a God and his God is the only true God. Why is this not good enough for you?

Jesus' HUMAN NATURE OF FLESH AND BONE DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, but His DIVINE NATURE is from eternity past to eternity future and nothing you say will change that. Throw away that NWT and read the Textus Receptus.

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins".

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus' HUMAN NATURE OF FLESH AND BONE DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, but His DIVINE NATURE is from eternity past to eternity future and nothing you say will change that. Throw away that NWT and read the Textus Receptus.

"For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins".

This is the number one problem (in my view) when debating this subject. Because no matter how much great evidence that I write from the Scriptures that say Jesus is not God. Anyone can just say well, that was Jesus acting in his 100 percent man part and not his 100 percent God part. And I beg for people to tell me how something can be 100 percent of two things. That answer is God can do it and He did not mean for us to understand.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus' HUMAN NATURE OF FLESH

Is the only nature the Bible explicitly states. Are all men both, human and divine?

• If the answer is no, then the inherently contradictory part of your doctrine is revealing itself.
• If the answer is yes, then it follows that Jesus had only a human nature.

That either way your dogma is destroyed is bad news for trinitarianism. Dualism, the jettisoning of logic and definitions, does not help your case.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is the number one problem (in my view) when debating this subject. Because no matter how much great evidence that I write from the Scriptures that say Jesus is not God. Anyone can just say well, that was Jesus acting in his 100 percent man part and not his 100 percent God part. And I beg for people to tell me how something can be 100 percent of two things. That answer is God can do it and He did not mean for us to understand.

I think the number one problem is people thinking they have "great evidence" from Scripture for why Jesus is not God.

"His (Jesus) name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace..."