What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

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Phoneman777

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Is the only nature the Bible explicitly states. Are all men both, human and divine?
  • If the answer is no, then the inherently contradictory part of your doctrine is revealing itself.
  • If the answer is yes, then it follows that Jesus had only a human nature.

That either way your dogma is destroyed is bad news for trinitarianism. Dualism, the jettisoning of logic and definitions, does not help your case.
The only thing being jettisoned is the plain word of God, by those who hate the divinity of Jesus.

Those who attack the divinity of Jesus agree with and align themselves with SATANIC orders such as Freemasons, the Illuminati, Knights of Malta, Rosicrucianists, Luciferians, Satanists, and countless other orders that hate Jesus with a hatred inspired by the archenemy of Jesus, Lucifer.
 

Kermos

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Nonsense. Jesus NEVER declared himself to be God....not once.

John 10:31-36...

He called himself "the son of God" after he confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel "gods". The word "god' (theos) does not mean what you think it does.

Those judges were authorized by God to represent him to his people.....Jesus likewise can be a "god", as one divinely authorized by his God and Father to represent him on the earth.

The figure of speech called an oxymoron respecting "you are gods" (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34) and "many gods" (1 Corinthians 8:5).

Scripturally addressing your unreasonable scope claim that there are many gods with respect to the New Testament.
The Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - Theos, theos [transliteration] - God, Deity, god, deity [English]) can be dependent upon surrounding grammar and context.

The Greek word ἄγγελος (Strong's 32 - aggelos [transliteration] - messenger, angel [English]) is the parlance for angel in the New Testament, and the word θεὸς (God) is never used to refer to an ἄγγελος (angel) in the New Testament.

In the 27 books of the New Testament, the word "god" is used in one of two ways.

The first way is in the good sense which is in reference to YHWH, and I prefer a capital "G" for the good sense, like this, YHWH God.

The second way is in the evil sense which can be in reference to the devil, and I prefer a lower case "g" for the evil sense, like this, the god of this world.

Only two senses for the word "god" exists, and the senses are either good or evil. There is no middle ground.

Of the over 1000 times that the Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - God, god) or it's inflections are used in the New Testament, only the good sense or the evil sense indicated above are represented, as shown in this concordance page blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2316/nasb95/tr/0-1/, and I reviewed all the included verses to make certain - and θεὸς (God) is not used one time to indicate angels.

The good sense for the word θεὸς (God) applies to Jesus; therefore, John declares Jesus is YHWH God in John 1:1 for only God is good (Mark 10:18).​

Let's look at the definition and etymology of the word "oxymoron".
Oxymoron: noun, A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.

[Greek (attested only in Latin sources) oxumōron, an expression that is witty because paradoxical, from neuter of *oxumōros, pointedly foolish : Greek oxus, sharp, keen; see oxygen + mōros, dull, foolish.]

From the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.​

"You are gods" (John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6) - the unanimous oxymoron found in both the Old Testament and New Testament.
Watchtower Society people and their ilk practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23) throughout their writings, for example, their foolish words along the lines of Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'" in support of their deception about John 10:34 where Jesus refers back to "I said, 'You are gods'" (Psalm 82:6) as recorded in John 10:34.

Now, who is the "I" in "I said" in Psalm 82:6? The "I" is Asaph as identified in Psalm 82:1, so the quote in Psalm 82:6 is not God the Father speaking; therefore, you lie when you write things like Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'"!

The Jews knew that Jesus proclaimed Himself to be God with "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30, but see John 10 in general), yet the Jews denied rhe Righteousness of Jesus for the Apostle John shows immediately after Jesus' words that "the Jews picked up stones again to stone Him" (John 10:31).

The Jews themselves explained their own actions "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33), so the Jews deny Jesus' Deity, yet Jesus openly proclaims His Deity.

Watchtower Society people are in league with the Jews.

We Christians believe the Apostle John's words. John declares that John believes that Jesus "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The fact is that the Apostle John is the person who proclaimed that Jesus made Himself equal with God (John 5:18). John wrote in such a way that John expresses John's belief that Jesus is equal with God (John 5:18). Equality with God is to be God.

In John 10:34-36, Jesus, who is God (John 1:1-3, John 1:14, John 5:18, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, 2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13), rebukes the Jews.

See that Jesus words of "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said, 'you are gods'? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken, do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" (John 10:34-36) refers back to the psalmist passage rebuking the Jews (Psalm 82:6).

Notice that Jesus' words integrate the greater of Psalm 82 by referencing a small portion because Jesus says "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35); furthermore, a person can use a small portion of scripture to integrate a fuller passage - a technique used by Jesus.

In fact, here is what Asaph said that Asaph said "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High, Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7), so Asaph employed an oxymoron effectively conveying "you are not gods" to the Jews; in other words, both Asaph and Jesus told the people that they are no gods at all, and that the people know not righteousness (Psalm 82:1-8) for God is not like a man that dies (Numbers 23:19), and God knows the way of righteousness (Psalm 1:6).

Like the Jews, you yourself cannot judge what is right (Luke 12:57). The context of the people NOT being "gods" is clear in John 10:34-36 and Psalm 82:6-7.

As is evident in John 10:34-36 based on the above Truth (John 14:6), Lord and God Jesus (John 20:28) was not saying that there are potentially additional gods before the One True God as you preach, but rather Jesus eliminates the potential for the Jews to be gods.

While Jesus told the Jews that they are not gods - not even able to discern the Righteous Branch, Jesus, standing before them, Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God to the Jews with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Furthermore, the Apostle John expressed that Jesus is God (John 1:1). The context for "God" is clear in John 1:1 for there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), and the word "theos" is in the context of the good sense in John 1:1.​

Paul conveyed that the world's "many gods" are false, but that One God is real.
The Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14) says "I am YHWH, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with the Word of God for Paul wrote "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him" (1 Corinthians 8:4-6).

Paul wrote "there is no such thing as an idol in the world" in verse 4, yet people have idols.

Paul establishes that he is being illustrative with "no such thing as an idol" because people have many false gods and masters (lords) in the world (verse 5).

Paul utilized rhetoric when describing idols, "many gods", and "many lords"; on the other hand, Paul wrote in absolute terms when describing the One True God.

In verse 4 and verse 6, Paul establishes there is One God, so his "as indeed there are many gods and many lords" (verse 5) cannot be his endorsement of the existence of true gods in addition to his declared One God in verse 4 and 6 - after all Paul had just classified the "many gods" as "so-called gods".

Paul encapsulated that the "many gods" are false gods.

Paul used the linguistic oxymoron construction to effectively convey that there are no other gods and there is One YHWH God.

The word of you is "I am Jehovah, and there are others; besides Me there are Gods" (your heart's adulterated version based on your writings).​

The Apostle John is not going to refer to Jesus as "a god" because such a thing results in two gods. According to your heart's treasure, you claim to have:

Jehovah God + Jesus a god = two gods.

You subtract the fullness of "God" in John 1:1; therefore, you have more than one God because you say that John 1:1 contains "the Word was a god".

Since your heart contends that Jesus is "a god" necessarily before Jehovah God for your salvation, then you have more than one god which places you in violation of "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

THE GREEK WORD THEOS (GOD) EXCLUSIVELY REFERS TO THE ONE TRUE GOD (DEUTERONOMY 6:4) IN THE GOOD SENSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, SO "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" (JOHN 1:1) REFERS TO JESUS AS THE ONE TRUE GOD.
 

Peterlag

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This is for those who say Jesus had to be God because a mere man could not do the job...

How does God's son who He has made both Lord and Christ become a mere man? How does this Lord and Christ who God glorified, justified, sanctified, anointed, and ordained become a mere man? The one God made to be our mediator, advocator, and intercessor? The one God highly exalted?
 

GRACE ambassador

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This is for those who say Jesus had to be God because a mere man could not do the job...
Correct, or else The Infinite Price PAID For Redemption (Acts 20:28),
would not be possible, as:

"mere men suffer ETERNAL torment forever and ever."

But, God, The SON, Giving us "The ETERNAL Benefit" of

"Rising
From The Tomb, Defeating Death ForEver!"

Praise and Thanks Be To HIS Holy Name!! Amen?

Grace, Peace, And JOY In The Wonderful Saviour!
 
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Matthias

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God can do anything that is in keeping with his character. He can have the job done, any job done, by the agency of a man.
 

Matthias

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2 Corinthians 5:19

God and Messiah. Yahweh and Jesus. Father and Son. Principal and agent. Deity and man.

God was in Messiah. Yahweh was in Jesus. Father was in Son. Principal was in agent. Deity was in man.

The purpose: reconciliation.

Reconciliation of the world to whom? Yahweh.
 
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Peterlag

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Some stuff on the Holy Spirit

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of a verse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

God put the holy spirit upon Jesus immediately after he was baptized by John the Baptist because Jesus himself needed God’s gift of the holy spirit to have supernatural power just as the leaders and prophets of the Old Testament did. This fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies that God would put the holy spirit upon the Messiah enabling him in his ministry. The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1 Peter 1:3, 23). Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.
 

Taken

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What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God
OP ^

SIMPLE...
* Gods Given Gift of Salvation.
* Gods Offering of His Gift To ALL men.
* ALL mens option to freely TAKE Gods Gift, * AND RECIVE FOREVER Gods GIFT,
* BY a mans SPIRITUAL DEATH,
*
BEFORE a mans PHYSICAL DEATH.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Peterlag

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What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God
OP ^

SIMPLE...
* Gods Given Gift of Salvation.
* Gods Offering of His Gift To ALL men.
* ALL mens option to freely TAKE Gods Gift, * AND RECIVE FOREVER Gods GIFT,
* BY a mans SPIRITUAL DEATH,
*
BEFORE a mans PHYSICAL DEATH.

Glory to God,
Taken

All I ever asked for on this forum is a verse or two and all I get is whatever people personally believe.
 

Taken

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All I ever asked for on this forum is a verse or two and all I get is whatever people personally believe.

There are probably not a couple of verses that would be satisfactory to you. It’s more so a STUDY of a combinations of verses, that reveal the Big Picture of Gods Order and Way, bit by bit.
 
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Peterlag

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There are probably not a couple of verses that would be satisfactory to you. It’s more so a STUDY of a combinations of verses, that reveal the Big Picture of Gods Order and Way, bit by bit.

Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. Scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture.
 

Kermos

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Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. Scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture.

The following 6 paragraphs with links illustrate your folly based on your writings in this thread.

You wickedly change the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) into the word of Peterlag "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I was just God's thought" (Peterlag's heart thought).

Your improper "Jesus had to come as God" reframed into the Biblical "Jesus came as Man" (Hebrews 2:16-18) is important. The illuminating Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is truly God and Jesus is truly Man (Philippians 2:6-8).

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane and @Peterlag, when you convey that John 8:58 would be correctly translated as "I am he", then your fool linguistics show in extreme clarity. YOU MIX IN THIRD PERSON WHERE THE THIRD PERSON IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE SOURCE GREEK, so you try to smash your fistful of wickedness into Jesus' mouth.

"I AM" in John 8:58 is equivalent to "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 according to NT/Septuagint Greek.

It is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) - and there's more about "I AM" and much Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God in this linked post. Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony, yet you deny Jesus because you deny consistent Apostolic testimony about Jesus being God.

You're question deceitfully starts with a non-sequitor because NO scripture states Jesus was "made". God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8). THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD! You are a deceiver who thinks Jesus is not God, so you are a disbeliever preaching everlasting punishment unto yourself and your followers (Matthew 25:46).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!
 

Peterlag

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The following 6 paragraphs with links illustrate your folly based on your writings in this thread.

You wickedly change the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) into the word of Peterlag "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I was just God's thought" (Peterlag's heart thought).

Your improper "Jesus had to come as God" reframed into the Biblical "Jesus came as Man" (Hebrews 2:16-18) is important. The illuminating Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is truly God and Jesus is truly Man (Philippians 2:6-8).

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane and @Peterlag, when you convey that John 8:58 would be correctly translated as "I am he", then your fool linguistics show in extreme clarity. YOU MIX IN THIRD PERSON WHERE THE THIRD PERSON IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE SOURCE GREEK, so you try to smash your fistful of wickedness into Jesus' mouth.

"I AM" in John 8:58 is equivalent to "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 according to NT/Septuagint Greek.

It is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) - and there's more about "I AM" and much Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God in this linked post. Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony, yet you deny Jesus because you deny consistent Apostolic testimony about Jesus being God.

You're question deceitfully starts with a non-sequitor because NO scripture states Jesus was "made". God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8). THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD! You are a deceiver who thinks Jesus is not God, so you are a disbeliever preaching everlasting punishment unto yourself and your followers (Matthew 25:46).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

This idea really worries me when folks like you say it is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to enter Heaven because Lord Jesus says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24)

My Bible says "I am he" (KJV). And this John was probably addressed to the Jews and not the Christian. What worries me is that you teach that Romans 10:9 says that if you will confess with your mouth the Lord God and shall believe in your heart that God raised Himself from the dead then you will be saved.
 

Taken

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Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. Scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture.

So what is your point?
Are you looking for the benefit of Jesus being God, as your OP suggests, or are you wanting to debate what the word Trinity means, and disappointment the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture or perhaps trying to have a discussion on what the word “God” means?
 

Peterlag

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So what is your point?
Are you looking for the benefit of Jesus being God, as your OP suggests, or are you wanting to debate what the word Trinity means, and disappointment the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture or perhaps trying to have a discussion on what the word “God” means?

Instead of answering the question that is stated in the OP because I honestly want to know why people think they need to believe Jesus is God... folks tell me that the Bible says he is. And they think they are answering the question. To converse with them I end up talking about what they are bringing up which again is that the Bible says he is. The only answer I have received is to redeem us. But the Bible says a man did that. So then I'm told well, that was Jesus when he had is man hat on.
 
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