What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God
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@RLT63 should be delighted that people are seeking him out and asking him questions. He’s center stage and has the floor. What a great opportunity that affords him!
Well done.
It's a dishonest question in the OP. Be ready to be accused by its author of not answering the question.Or providing a verse.
You provided many.
As have we all. Good job.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I was a bi-vocational Youth Minister for 10 years and have a degree in Biblical Studies from an unaccredited college, I'm no scholar or theologian by any means
Johann
Well-Known Member
He is being indoctrinated, manipulation at its best. American Christianity style.
I’m glad you’re here. Whether we agree or not, on any subject, you cause me to think and rethink. You’ve done me no harm. You’ve done me a good service.
A man like that is a man I want to shake hands with and tell him, thank you.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Matter of fact, here, let me help you, can you close my account?
Should you vacillate in your mind, should Johann go, shouldn't he, just close my account or ban me completely.
Says the man from South Africa to you @Heart2Soul.
See, it's not that difficult. I have blocked Matthias and will keep on blocking, till I have one, or two genuine believers that can help me grow in Christ, and hopefully I can help them grow in Christ.
Y'varekhekha Adonai v'yishmerekha (Hashem bless thee, and keep thee);
Ya'er Adonai panav eleikha vichunekha (Hashem make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee);
Yissa Adonai panav eleikha v'yasem l'kha shalom (Hashem lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee shalom).
Just love how the OJB puts it.
יברכך יהוה וישׁמרך׃
יאר יהוה פניו אליך ויחנך׃
ישׂא יהוה פניו אליך וישׂם לך שׁלום׃
ושׂמו את־שׁמי על־בני ישׂראל ואני אברכם׃
J.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
You should always be ready to give a defense of your beliefs.
Ufumu Wa Mulungu
On my first trip to Africa (I’ve been twice) I took my workhorse translation of the Bible (NASB). At my first lecture when someone in the audience asked me a question that I was unprepared for, and it took me totally by surprise: “Why do you lecture from a propaganda Bible?”
Propaganda Bible?
The student explained: “You’re using a United States government Bible. It’s propaganda. Why are you trying to make us Americans? We are Malawians.”
The person noted that I was quoting from the New American Standard Bible. He assumed that because it said “American” - and everything “American” is propaganda in his worldview - that I was an agent of the government of the United States of America. Of course that wasn’t so. I was caught up in a cultural conflict. That’s not a good thing.
On my second trip to Africa I left my NASB at home. I lectured from the Revised Standard Version. The problem I ran into in Malawi was avoided in Kenya.
Ufumu Wa Mulungu - Chichewa, “Kingdom of God”. The topic of my lecture.
On my first trip to Africa (I’ve been twice) I took my workhorse translation of the Bible (NASB). At my first lecture when someone in the audience asked me a question that I was unprepared for, and it took me totally by surprise: “Why do you lecture from a propaganda Bible?”
Propaganda Bible?
The student explained: “You’re using a United States government Bible. It’s propaganda. Why are you trying to make us Americans? We are Malawians.”
The person noted that I was quoting from the New American Standard Bible. He assumed that because it said “American” - and everything “American” is propaganda in his worldview - that I was an agent of the government of the United States of America. Of course that wasn’t so. I was caught up in a cultural conflict. That’s not a good thing.
On my second trip to Africa I left my NASB at home. I lectured from the Revised Standard Version. The problem I ran into in Malawi was avoided in Kenya.
Ufumu Wa Mulungu - Chichewa, “Kingdom of God”. The topic of my lecture.
Johann
Well-Known Member
I am, and it is not welcomed.
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
an answer. Gr. apologia (S# G627, Act_22:1). One of the most effective approaches possible in witnessing and personal evangelism is to become involved in the lives and activities of others who are not part of the Christian community, and let our lives prompt others to ask us questions about our faith. When this happens, we have earned a right to be heard, and can be more effective for Christ when we answer their questions about our faith, than if we try to force our faith upon persons who do not have an immediate interest in our message.
Pro 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.
Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!
Pro 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
Pro 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
Pro 15:30 The light of the eyes rejoiceth the heart: and a good report maketh the bones fat.
2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
2Ti 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
2Ti 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Next to Christ, Paul a man after my heart.
Don't worry, I am not speaking in your behalf.
Okay let's work with this. How about if I find a verse that says God wants to be worshiped and you find a verse that says Jesus wants to be God?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I was on a forum full of atheists and evolutionists. Even most of the Christians there believe in evolution. This one is much more tolerable for Christians
I welcome it.
I want to know not only what people believe but why they believe it. I may or may not agree with it. I may or may not be persuaded by it. I may or may not change my mind.
A knock at our door is an opportunity afforded to us. We have a responsibility to answer. We have no control over how that answer will be received.
If 10,000 people dismiss my answer, still I will answer when anyone knocks on my door.
John 8:58 because it keeps coming up...
The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.
The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.
Johann
Well-Known Member
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is divine. When He came to Earth to die on the cross for humanity, He was God in the flesh (John 1:14; Colossians 1:15-19). Jesus unhesitatingly called attention to this fact on several occasions since the acknowledgment of this truth is necessary for salvation (Romans 10:9-10). Recall the incident 1,500 years before Jesus came to Earth when Moses was tending livestock in the desert and encountered a bush that was on fire but continued to burn unconsumed. Warning him to keep his distance and remove his shoes, God identified Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Announcing to Moses his mission to return to Egypt to proclaim to Pharaoh God’s demands, Moses proceeded to offer a series of quibbles designed to justify his reluctance to go. One of those excuses was framed in this question: “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13, ESV). God’s response was decisive: “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you’” (vs. 14).
The import of God’s declaration on this occasion pertains to the eternal nature of deity. God is the Eternal Present, i.e., He has always existed and always will because, unlike everyone else, He possesses infinite eternality. Incredibly, the same may be said of Jesus. He is “the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). He declares: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End…who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8)—precisely the same thing that is said about God (Revelation 4:8). Since the purpose of the Gospel of John is to cause people to believe that “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31), it is to be expected that the book should contain multiple allusions to the deity of Christ—and such is certainly the case. In fact, we encounter several instances in John where Jesus applies to Himself the same expression that God used at the burning bush: “I AM.”
For example, on the occasion when Jesus faced the incessant unbelief of the Jews, He forthrightly declared to them: “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins” (John 8:24). The word “He” is in italics in the NKJV and several other translations,1 indicating the translators’ insertion. However, in keeping with the theme of John, as well as the immediate context, its insertion is unwarranted and obscures the power of Jesus’ statement. He was, in fact, forthrightly declaring His deity to the hard-hearted Jews by identifying Himself with the same Deity that Moses encountered at the burning bush.2 This fact is evident in the context. Three verses later, Jesus again states: “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things” (vs. 28). Once again, the NKJV places “He” in italics. And then, for a third time, Jesus pointedly presses the fact to bring closure to His confrontation: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (vss. 55-58). The Jews correctly understood that Jesus was making a direct claim to Deity, evidenced by the fact that they prepared to execute Him for the capital crime of blasphemy.3 Jesus stressed this same point to the Samaritan woman with whom He engaged in a conversation regarding His identity. His remarks were such that she first considers Him to be a prophet (John 4:19). But as He continues to speak, she admits that she is aware of the fact that the Messiah/Christ was yet to come. He uses her admission to declare: “I who speak to you am He” (vs. 26).4 Once again, in various translations, the word “He” is in italics to denote its insertion. But I suggest that Jesus was connecting Himself with the “I AM” of the burning bush.
"I Am He" or "I Am"? - Apologetics Press
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes - I guess that with hard facts being scant that we dont need to know much more.
I understand that traditionally those who support the theology of trinity insist that the Godhead existed alone before Genesis 1.
I have never been so sure about this given the existence of the eternal priestly order of Melchizedek.
I have areas of agreement with the JWs and areas of disagreement with them. The same is the case with trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians. I can find areas of agreement (and disagreement) with all of them.
I don’t downplay or minimize the significance of the areas of disagreement, but neither do I discount the areas of agreement. The more areas of agreement the better.
You and I have been able to agree on some things; disagree on other things.
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