What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

I question that a person who waits until the last possible moment to accept Jesus as savior has. Jesus will be the judge of that.

Let’s assume though that the person has. (Jesus nods his head approvingly.) I presume Jesus would recognize and acknowledge that the person had no opportunity to be baptized, that this is an exceptional circumstance, not a normal circumstance, and that the person would have obeyed the command (again, if that’s what it is) if able to; that there was no disobedience on the person’s part.

I haven’t encountered that situation in my ministry.

I have.

 

[John Caldwell]

“…Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God…” (John 20:31)

Yes. But He most often used the title "Son of Man".

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus is this Word (the Word became flesh and dwelt among us).

The question is not whether Jesus is God but if Jesus was eternally the "Son of God" or became the "Son of God" (if the passage "You are my Son, today I have begotten You" applies to Jesus.

 

[Carl Emerson]

“…Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God…” (John 20:31)

Not problem with "Son of God" as long as it doesn't imply insubordination.

The term 'Son' doesn't define the relationship. It is just a word to allow us to discuss a relationship that is beyond our comprehension.

 

[Matthias]

@RLT63 does the term “Son” define the relationship between Jesus and his God in your theology? Or is it just a word that allows you to discuss a relationship that is beyond your comprehension?

 

[RLT63]

Not problem with "Son of God" as long as it doesn't imply insubordination.

The term 'Son' doesn't define the relationship. It is just a word to allow us to discuss a relationship that is beyond our comprehension.

How can there be subordination / hierarchy in the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 does the term “Son” define the relationship between Jesus and his God in your theology? Or is it just a word that allows you to discuss a relationship that is beyond your comprehension?

How can there be subordination / hierarchy in the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Matthias]

How can there be subordination / hierarchy in the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[RLT63]

Is that a yes or a no?

There is a relationship between the Father and the Son. We saw Jesus pray to the Father not my will but yours be done. The Father always sends the Son. The Son doesn't send the Father. There is relational subordination.

 

[Matthias]

There is a relationship between the Father and the Son. We saw Jesus pray to the Father not my will but yours be done. The Father always sends the Son. The Son doesn't send the Father. There is relational subordination.

Adam Clarke, a Methodist commentator, rejected eternal Sonship, calling it “anti-scriptural” and “highly dangerous”. He calls Origen’s “eternal generation” concept “absurd”.

Luke 1:35 - Adam Clarke Bible Commentary

I don’t think it’s possible to hold that point of view and be (or remain) a trinitarian. Do you?

 

[BeyondET]

“…Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God…” (John 20:31)

Yes it says these are written, obviously the new testament wasn't written yet when John mentioned writings. So the only place would be old testament writings, there's a few writings of the OT that mentioned the Son, do you know of a few?

31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

 

[RLT63]

Adam Clarke, a Methodist commentator, rejected eternal Sonship, calling it “anti-scriptural” and “highly dangerous”. He calls Origen’s “eternal generation” concept “absurd”.

Luke 1:35 - Adam Clarke Bible Commentary

I don’t think it’s possible to hold that point of view and be (or remain) a trinitarian. Do you?

I think it's getting into the area of things that don't really matter. God only gave us what we could understand and we are having enough trouble understanding that.

 

[BeyondET]

There is a relationship between the Father and the Son. We saw Jesus pray to the Father not my will but yours be done. The Father always sends the Son. The Son doesn't send the Father. There is relational subordination.

If they were separated and not One in Spirit.

 

[Matthias]

I think it's getting into the area of things that don't really matter. God only gave us what we could understand and we are having enough trouble understanding that.

Thanks.

I think he blew up trinitarianism. I can’t fathom a Trinity which doesn’t include an eternal Son.

Without “eternal generation” we’re back to the subordinationism that once existed in the Church.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks.

I think he blew up trinitarianism. I can’t fathom a Trinity which doesn’t include an eternal Son.

Without “eternal generation” we’re back to the subordinationism that once existed in the Church.

I have seen his name a lot before.

 

[Peterlag]

It is not about making Jesus anything. Jesus is God.

The reason this is necessary is redemption (in Christ man is reconciled to God).

You do see that the 2 verses I provided said a man did it... right?

 

[Peterlag]

You asked for scriptural support in post #1826

You're killing me. Where's the verse? It's not in post 1826.

 

[Peterlag]

True...but we're told to "test the spirits" and if we possess an inadequate level of knowledge for testing - as Darwin did - we're almost certain to end up with a wrong conclusion, too.

I have no idea what testing the spirit means. Is that to know if it's from God or the devil? What else is there to know?

 

[Matthias]

I have seen his name a lot before.

He was famous in his day, and popular for a couple of centuries following them. I don’t hear people talking about him and his commentary much anymore.

After my paternal grandfather died I inherited his small library. Among the books was Adam Clarke’s Commentary. At first that surprised me. Clarke’s position against “eternal generation” is a repudiation of orthodoxy. (If there is no eternal Son then the Trinity is down a person for some period of time.) My grandfather was a deacon in the Church and a trinitarian. But did he embrace orthodoxy? I don’t know but I suspect, in hindsight, that he didn’t.

But just because a book which undermines orthodoxy was found in his possession doesn’t, in and of itself, give me a definite answer.

It makes me wonder what my inheritors will think when they see what is in my personal library. I own hundreds of books - I sometimes think of them as “tools of the trade” - and I’d estimate that well over 90% of them are written by trinitarians. Will my descendants one day conclude from that that I was a trinitarian? I’ve put safeguards in place to ensure that they won’t.

 

[Peterlag]

Psalm 32:1-2 "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity..." Psalm 103:12 "As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us". A more clear definition also can be found in Isaiah 43:25, "I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; And I will not remember sins."

It appears the New Testament draws on the verses in the Old Testament that shows where God forgives sins [since the transgression is against him, as David says, "Against you and you alone have I sinned" (Psalm 51:4) only he can be the one to forgive the transgression]. In the passage about the paralytic in Mark, chapter 2:7 shows how in the understanding of the Jews it is only God who can forgive sins "Why does this man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Hope that helps a bit. I imagine others can contribute more verses.

Jesus was not yet born when God said in Psalm that He blots out transgressions. Number 2 nobody ever said Jesus (when he would be here) could not forgive sins. And number 3 Mark 2:7 says the unbelievers said Jesus could not do it. I don't see any proof anywhere in what you write that says only God could forgive sins.

 

[Peterlag]

Your "why did he have to be God" is non-sequitor because God is always God (see this post in this thread)

God says Jesus is God, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8).

THE WORD OF GOD DECLARES THAT JESUS IS TRULY MAN AND THAT JESUS IS TRULY GOD!

I gave 2 verses that say why Jesus had to be a man. Can you give 2 verses that say why Jesus had to be God?