Ask God why Holy Spirit inspired the scripture with the wording "gave to her husband WITH HER." It's so plain that a 5 year old can understand it. Don't try to reason it out and change the scripture to say something else.
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
The reason Adam is credited for the fall of mankind is BECAUSE his sin was not of deception... it was WILLFUL. He was instructed by God to keep the garden. The serpent shouldn't have even been there to have opportunity against his wife. And he stood there silent and watched it go down .....then made a conscious willful decision to eat the fruit.
Jostler
Well-Known Member
Your logic is too twisted for me to sort out...God did place Adam as His delegated authority in his home..
Makes perfect sense to me without any assumption that God is evil.
Makes perfect sense to me without any assumption that God is evil.
I did, and with much scriptural backing. You have a nasty habit of "not seeing" what you don't want to see.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Look, LoL. If I keep asking you to address my question, you will get upset that I am simply badgering you now, which I am not. I was wanting you to answer me after consider what I asked. So to avoid further offending you you leave me no choice but to stop asking, so I will have to I guess.
It's a very simple question, and one that doesn't involve his home. If Adam was there in the initial event and was not deceived into eating but ate knowing what he was doing, why did Eve's judgment appear to be worse than Adam's, and why did God place Adam above Eve in authority?
Look guys, none of this line of questioning was directed at either of you. If there is one thing I am at least a little grateful for, it is that you two were here to respond to me, because I can assure you Amazed@grace will not. She has not answered me now for something like eight posts in a row, bless her heart.
But I don't know that you two are looking for any form of reconciliation despite the fact that none of this was directed at you, as I have told you both.
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Jostler
Well-Known Member
Again, your logic and assumptions are beyond me. I don't assume Eve's judgment was worse than Adam's and God's establishment of Adam's authority happened before the fall. What in the world does that have to do with any of this?
Shattered
Well-Known Member
Sooty and smoking, @Jostler . That visual stuck with me from the moment I heard that phrase (very scriptural). You're right, it would be hilarious if the situation weren't so grave. In all of my years on this earth I've struggled to understand my fellow man, overflowing with pride and crying like a baby over spilled milk. It's shameful and we should never cease praying, that the Lord might teach them how to be men in Jesus Christ.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
No it did not.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
IF???? lol
You're basing your question on a lie, Chris. The scripture is plain and clear. What part of "with her" is hard for you to grasp (or accept)?? Are you saying the Word of God is wrong and needs to be rewritten? I gave you tons of scripture. It is YOUR perception that is off.
You don't understand the nature of what responsibility God placed on men ....that's the whole issue here. He didn't give women as property, nor playtoys or things to abuse. Women aren't less than. And you are not an authority over every female. Men have a responsiblity to work by the sweat of their brows and provide for their wife and children. If they don't they are worse than an infidel. And men are instructed to love their wife as Christ loved the church .... AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT. Are you doing that?? Are you willing to give your life for your wife? Do you truly love her? The weight is placed on men because he was created first and he wilfully sinned. If you can't see the magnitude of that responsibility, you're missing it.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I'm not prideful and nor crying, LoL. I'm discussing this passage of scripture with Jostler and TLHJAK.
Jostler
Well-Known Member
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Ugh. You are avoiding the question now for the third time, so I give up.
THAT my sister is an ENTIRELY different issue that has not been addressed one iota in our discussion. I will address that with you tomorrow as I need to go to work. But if you think I endorse such things you again don't know me.
Make that don't know me in the EXTREME, and yet once again turn on a man who has spent the last several days praying for you, trying to encourage you, and build you up.
I'm off to work.
Jostler
Well-Known Member
You have refused to acknowledge where I replied to you. I can't help that.
There's no problem with a husband being the head of the wife, since he is to love her as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. He is to nourish her as his own body (not use and abuse it). He is to wash her with the water of the Word. He should serve, and also humble himself (submit to one another, as the Word says) ....he should lead by example.
What I see that is off in what you said earlier is that you implied that every woman is under the authority of every man. LOL ... this is so totally off base!
None of those things make up for false teachings ... you are twisting scripture. I won't agree with that.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, and yet you teach the truth and I am spreading false teachings and twisting scripture.
Again, I agree with this statement, and yet you teach the truth and I am spreading false teachings and twisting scripture.
Once again, I agree, and yet you teach the truth and I am spreading heresy. Do you see a pattern here? Why is it that if you say something it is the truth and when I fully agree I am a heretic?
What is utterly off base is that I have NEVER said such a thing nor would I EVER say such a thing, and yet someone who I yet again tried to befriend and do everything I could do for is now putting words in my mouth that I have never said. Isn't that little "off base," Abby?
Oh the humanity...
.
Jostler, where is the humanity in the above? And where is the humanity in the fact that I was hoping to maybe befriend you as well since Abby told me you were her friend, only to get met with this business. I've done nothing to you. Guys, whether Shattered wants to accuse me of being "prideful" and a "baby" and "shameful" and "not a man," the truth is I was explaining scripture to you plain and simple, and if I am supposedly "teaching heresy," how about if we start by pointing to things I actually teach.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What are women responsible for?
TLHKAJ, can you give men credit for making civilization what it is? Or is your mind fixated only on the negative qualities of men?
Should men take your lead and only admit the negative aspects of women? Is that why Christ died?
For your sake, I pray you forgive those that trespassed against you.
14 If you forgive others for the wrongs they do to you, your Father in heaven will forgive you. 15 But if you don’t forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matthew 6:14-15 (CEV)
VictoryinJesus
Well-Known Member
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Concerning the topic. I haven’t read all the post here because it can be a stressful topic. An important one I think for discussion but also can be a frustrating one. One I did read mentioned ‘male and female’ God made them. Consider Christ and His church. Together, joined as “One” body is there not male and female? As in speaking to the woman on not letting it be the outward adorning of platted hair, but let it be the hidden man of the heart “a quiet and meek spirit”, the Spirit of the Son sent into the hearts crying “Abba, Father!” Which is a pearl of great price to God. In the union of Christ with His Church “you are complete in Him” made whole: male and female, Head and Body: One. Could even point to the passage Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Where He goes on to give the two commandments which no other “Lord our God” can fulfill but Him. Consider that man declares the Glory of God and the woman the glory of the man: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
It is this man who “he has declared Him”, it is this man who has declared the Glory of God. And it is this woman, His Church, His body which declares “the Son” and His Glory. Think about that...Jesus Christ declares the Glory God and the body declares the Glory of the “the Son” what better sure fulfillment of “the man is the Glory of God, and the woman(body) the glory of the man? In His Name we pray Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Where He goes on to give the two commandments which no other “Lord our God” can fulfill but Him. Consider that man declares the Glory of God and the woman the glory of the man: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
It is this man who “he has declared Him”, it is this man who has declared the Glory of God. And it is this woman, His Church, His body which declares “the Son” and His Glory. Think about that...Jesus Christ declares the Glory God and the body declares the Glory of the “the Son” what better sure fulfillment of “the man is the Glory of God, and the woman(body) the glory of the man? In His Name we pray Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
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