What do you think about gender equality in Christianity?

[Tone]

which is not teaching

Teaching is a lot broader than you think.

Every woman mentioned in the NT taught us something...some even explicitly.

 

[Truther]

All of em...

Can you show evidence?

 

[Truther]

Did you read the definition of "usurp"...it's to take that position illegally and/or by force.

The elders didn't take the position illegally and/or by force.

They were ordained.

There are woman in the Bible ordained for leadership.

So, if the 1st century church ingored the elders' directives, no problem?

Unenforced directives?

Also, where is the Biblical evidence of women in the 1st century church that were ordained?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When you start taking Scriptures out of context, you can expect nothing but spiritual confusion. You are taking this out of context.

regardless of if you see it as taking it out of context. It is still a question I have of what is the right answer: to esteem one day above another or to esteem every day alike? Romans 14:5

It would help to know how you view that in context and do you esteem one day above another or do you esteem every day alike?

 

[Truther]

Okay, so there is one position in church that you feel should be filled by an ordained man?

And that is..."head pastor"?



You keep using that word...

Once again, the NT does not condone anyone usurping power over anyone.

No, elder.

The pastor is an elder.

Their main role is to teach the Apostles' directives and enforce them, even to go as far as excommunication if need be.

However, the elder/pastor must be perfect doctrinally and mature spiritually to even qualify for this sacred role.

 

[Truther]

Teaching is a lot broader than you think.

Every woman mentioned in the NT taught us something...some even explicitly.

Like what?
It only says let the elder women teach the younger women....

 

[Tone]

@Truther


"Evidence"?

What have you learned from all the women in the NT?

There's your evidence.

All believers are ordained for ministry, we all have gifts for building up the Body.

 

[Tone]

So, if the 1st century church ingored the elders' directives, no problem?

Unenforced directives?

Also, where is the Biblical evidence of women in the 1st century church that were ordained?

I have no idea where you are reading me say anything about ignoring elders...

 

[Amazed@grace]

Again



‘Equality’ is a constraint not at all the noble principle America was founded on - equal rights and equal protection under the law.

‘Equality’ has no real life application but is but a market tested term found least offensive by an evil ideology. There is no equality between good and evil.

You cannot even admit men and women were not created equally. Men were created from dirt. Women were not.

The bible does not agree with you.
Nor do the civil rights laws and Constitution of America. That is what we live with. Those in opposition do too.
Good talking with you.:)

 

[Wrangler]

The bible does not agree with you.

Doubly wrong. I agree with the Bible. Men were created from dirt. Women were not. This is an example of inequality. The Bible is chock full of inequality - because inequality is reality.

I have a great little booklet called Know Your Bible. It summarizes each book in 10 words or less. The Genesis Summary is: God chooses a special people. Guess what? A special people are not an equal people.
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[Gary Urban]

These are quite controversial. I refer to Vatican, even they confessed that they might get wrong in the past.

I don't think she failed to believe Jesus at first place. Naturally, everyone who see dead man rise will get shock, so does Mary Magdalene. By the means, her first reaction in Jesus resurrection did not present her faith. Moreover, finally she was the person who widespread Jesus was risen.

Your thoughts quite controversial, but I consider it as breakthrough points and very intriguing.
If you also can share a link to support your thoughts, it will be great for our discussion.

Hi I am new here . . an interesting doctrine . I would agree in a state of wonderment one is not exercising the faith that comes from hearing a inward voice. Noicodemus a man that followed a law of the father as oral traditions of men (I heard it through the grape vine) He was commanded to wonder or marvel not. Again wondering is not coming to a end of faith A lesson of faith the teaching of the word of God we can keep our wondering to a minimal as we grow in the exclusive faith of Christ as it is written faith.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

curious do you see an equality between Jew and gentile? Acts 15:7-9 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; [9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

I’m asking if you are not a Jew but a gentile; the Holy Spirit bearing witness with your spirit that you are a son, sending the Holy Spirit into your heart...is then the Jew still above you as you are a gentile and not a Jew? What of priest Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Can only the Jews can be priest? Not gentiles?

No, and Scripture clearly defines that! Scripture also clearly defines that women are not allowed to hold the offices of pasto/bishop/ elder and the office of deacon in the church.

But men and women have equal access to salvation, equal access in prayer and equal access in blessings. they just don't have equal access to the offices of the church according to God and His Word.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The value of anything is measured by that which you are willing to pay for it. God paid a ransom for our lives. The price of our redemption was the life of His Son.

I agree and rejoice 100% with you. but your point in this conversation is?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Two women endorsed and commended by Paul as co-laborers in the Gospel....Euodias and Syntyche.

Philippians 4:1-3 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹ Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved. ² I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. ³ And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Taking into account that Paul endorsed these women as ones who co-labored with him in the Gospel, this should behoove men to actually study and seek God's truth about why Paul seems to contradict himself. I guarantee, there is no contradiction. All of God's Word fits together perfectly.

 

[Brakelite]

I agree and rejoice 100% with you. but your point in this conversation is?

That price was paid for both men and women, therefore they are of equal value in the sight of God. The concept that women need to strive for "equality" is a sad state of affairs where the dictatorial mindset of men is a stark contradiction to the mind of Christ leading women to think subjugation is a biblical concept.

 

[kcnalp]

Feminists are victims of the Left wing media Satanists!

 

[TLHKAJ]

this is why they were commanded to be silent. By a wife usurping authority over her husband

Actually, if you dig into the context and history of the area where Paul gave those instructions, it was an area that had long been steeped in the worship of Dianna, a false goddess. It had been a woman-dominated society before they came to Christ. It would make sense that they had much to learn about submitting to their (own) husbands, and not domineering over them as before. So Paul instructed them to keep silence. It was obviously not a blanket command for all churches and all women everywhere. He even said "your women." Had he meant that as a blanket command, he would never have endorsed women ministers such as Euodias and Syntyche (among others).

 

[Brakelite]

So, again there is no specific verse that says husbands should submit to their wives because that is not the hierarchical relationship endorsed in Scripture.

Submitting to your wife does not mean you are abdicating authority in spiritual matters in the home. And it is only in spiritual matters where the husband is to be the head. Take financial matters for example. Is an idiot of a husband who gambles and spends all the money on himself neglecting the family ( and this happens with monotonous regularity) really the better option, even in God's eyes, over a wife with experience in financial stewardship? Or vice versa? The same argument could be said with driving... Mechanical and maintenance planning and execution... Housekeeping.... Teaching... Administration of the family business...I could go on and on. The husband's authority stops when his wife is more experienced and more talented.
As for your contention that there is no verse specifically stating a husband ought to submit to his wife, Paul was talking to everyone, including married couples when he said,
KJV Ephesians 5:21
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

And who was Jesus talking to here...
KJV John 15:13
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
You think he was excusing husbands and wives from this?
How many husbands you suppose who demand obedience from their wives, using supporting scripture, every consider the verse after...
KJV Ephesians 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

If husbands truly loved their wives, loved them to the point of self sacrificial love as Christ loved the church, there would be no necessity of threads like this. Wives would trust their husbands to do what is best. Authority wouldn't enter into the conversation. Wives for the most part want security. They want to be protected. They want their husbands to be in proper control of life. Feminism didn't appear as rebels against God through marxist philosophy. Feminism appeared because husbands were being scoundrels, dictators, selfish, egoistical, self righteous, pompous authoritarian, despots. Wives in days gone by had no choice but to submit... Otherwise they were thrown out into destitution, beaten, and/or publicly shamed. Or all of the above. Wives generally would have no issues with submission if their husbands could be trusted.
This mindset that demands, obey me because the Bible says so is cast aside when it comes to Christs authority over the church. Then you are a legalist. You are working your way to heaven. The law is nailed to the cross. It's utter hypocrisy when Christians demand obedience from their wife, but disobeying their own Head.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Actually, if you dig into the context and history of the area where Paul gave those instructions, it was an area that had long been steeped in the worship of Dianna, a false goddess. It had been a woman-dominated society before they came to Christ. It would make sense that they had much to learn about submitting to their (own) husbands, and not domineering over them as before.

Hello, sister.

There was no "woman-dominated" society anywhere in the ancient world. The only thing resembling this might have been in the Amazon, but as far as during New Testament times you are creating a fabrication here. Diana worship, Athena worship, Aphrodite worship, none of it changed the fact that men dominated societies throughout the ancient world.

It was obviously not a blanket command for all churches and all women everywhere. He even said "your women." Had he meant that as a blanket command, he would never have endorsed women ministers such as Euodias and Syntyche (among others).

This argument too is fabricated. Paul said, "Wives should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says." (1st Corinthians 14:34).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Had he meant that as a blanket command, he would never have endorsed women ministers such as Euodias and Syntyche (among others).

Two women endorsed and commended by Paul as co-laborers in the Gospel....Euodias and Syntyche.

Philippians 4:1-3 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹ Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved. ² I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. ³ And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Taking into account that Paul endorsed these women as ones who co-labored with him in the Gospel, this should behoove men to actually study and seek God's truth about why Paul seems to contradict himself. I guarantee, there is no contradiction. All of God's Word fits together perfectly.

Do you understand my position? I have been explaining it to you now for about a dozen posts.

It is WIVES who were commanded to be in submission. WIVES, not women.