What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

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RLT63

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Everyone is persuaded by the statement.

The question is, what are we persuaded of by the statement?

Are we persuaded that the person who addressed it to us is correct?

We may be persuaded to believe many things in response to the statement but we aren’t persuaded that the person who said it to us is correct. It will cause us to dig in our heels and harden our heart.

It’s a put down - and a dialogue killer, if we allow it to be.

Jesus and the savages. (It’s not the name of a band, at least as far as I know.)
Yes I have been addressed this way on the forum and some of my posts ridiculed especially by one person and it just leads to argument not productive conversation. I should know better.
 

Wrangler

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There are always two sides to every story Wrangler....the shunning is scriptural, (1 Corinthians 5:9-13) and it is only applied when serious wrongdoing is confirmed and the person is completely unrepentant.

Agreed, there are 2 sides to the story. That’s why I did not state my judgment on the matter, only what my SIL has said.

To elaborate, he said he’s tried to leave several times and the acted the way he did to get effectively banished. No longer considering himself part of the religion, half his family still shuns the other half.
 

Matthias

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By the same people who brought us “there are only two Bible translations worth reading” (NASB95 and NKJV).

What do I constantly advise all readers?

Read widely. Read deeply. Read Thoughtfully. Read Critically.

I went through the list. There isn’t a single passage which contradicts the Jewish unitary monotheism of Jesus.

What is the author of the list doing? He’s reading Jewish writings through the eyes of the early Church Fathers. He’s giving us - knowingly or unknowingly - what the Church, much later, said about them.

Je’s using the Bible for a purpose which was neither the purpose nor the belief of the biblical writers.

The original context is lost. Goodbye Moses the Jew. Hello Moses the trinitarian. Goodbye Jesus the Jew. Hello Jesus the Roman Catholic.

The constraints of history disregarded and relegated to the dust bin.

Church history tells the story. JAT doesn’t read it, hasn’t heard it, doesn’t know it, and couldn’t care less about it.

JAT is having his ears tickled, but not by me.
 

RLT63

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Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Since you think that about me, that gives me reason to believe that at least some others do to. Your feedback offers me an opportunity to set the record straight:

I don’t think that about you. I don’t think that about anyone.

There was a time in my life - both when I was a trinitarian and after I ceased to be a trinitarian - when I did.

Have you read Jesus and the Constraints of History, written by A.E. Harvey?
No I haven't read as much as you. I read more when I was a Youth Pastor because I was always looking for material. I also filled in for the Pastor when he needed to be off and filled in at several Churches when they were in need. I served as interim at one. I was also working a lot on a 5 county Drug Task Force during that time. This helped with the youth, they liked the fact that I was in law enforcement
 
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RLT63

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By the same people who brought us “there are only two Bible translations worth reading” (NASB95 and NKJV).

What do I constantly advise all readers?

Read widely. Read deeply. Read Thoughtfully. Read Critically.

I went through the list. There isn’t a single passage which contradicts the Jewish unitary monotheism of Jesus.

What is the author of the list doing? He’s reading Jewish writings through the eyes of the early Church Fathers. He’s giving us - knowingly or unknowingly - what the Church, much later, said about them.

Je’s using the Bible for a purpose which was neither the purpose nor the belief of the biblical writers.

The original context is lost. Goodbye Moses the Jew. Hello Moses the trinitarian. Goodbye Jesus the Jew. Hello Jesus the Roman Catholic.

The constraints of history disregarded and relegated to the dust bin.

Church history tells the story. JAT doesn’t read it, hasn’t heard it, doesn’t know it, and couldn’t care less about it.

JAT is having his ears tickled, but not by me.
I don't see it that way.
 

Matthias

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No I haven't read as much as you. I read more when I was a Youth Pastor because I was always looking for material. I also filled in for the Pastor when he needed to be off and filled in at several Churches when they were in need. I served as interim at one. I was also working a lot on a 5 county Drug Task Force during that time. This helped with the youth, they liked the fact that I was in law enforcement

How much reading we do isn’t necessarily a problem. What we read can be.

JAT isn’t reading the Church Fathers. JAT is reading the “fluff” writers.

“Mary changed God’s diapers and suckled God at her breast.”

We should be shocked and appalled at such nonsense, but JAT is enthralled and applauds it.
 

RLT63

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Agreed, there are 2 sides to the story. That’s why I did not state my judgment on the matter, only what my SIL has said.

To elaborate, he said he’s tried to leave several times and the acted the way he did to get effectively banished. No longer considering himself part of the religion, half his family still shuns the other half.
I know a woman who got pregnant when she was young and not married. She was basically excommunicated by the JWs.
 

Matthias

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Mary was a JW? I always thought she was an Essene!

She was a virgin! She conceived a human person in her womb without the involvement of a human person / father. It’s a miracle!
 

RLT63

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She was a virgin! She conceived a human person in her womb without the involvement of a human person / father. It’s a miracle!
Another person was involved and he was not a JW. I think that was their biggest problem with the situation.
 

RLT63

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By the same people who brought us “there are only two Bible translations worth reading” (NASB95 and NKJV).

What do I constantly advise all readers?

Read widely. Read deeply. Read Thoughtfully. Read Critically.

I went through the list. There isn’t a single passage which contradicts the Jewish unitary monotheism of Jesus.

What is the author of the list doing? He’s reading Jewish writings through the eyes of the early Church Fathers. He’s giving us - knowingly or unknowingly - what the Church, much later, said about them.

Je’s using the Bible for a purpose which was neither the purpose nor the belief of the biblical writers.

The original context is lost. Goodbye Moses the Jew. Hello Moses the trinitarian. Goodbye Jesus the Jew. Hello Jesus the Roman Catholic.

The constraints of history disregarded and relegated to the dust bin.

Church history tells the story. JAT doesn’t read it, hasn’t heard it, doesn’t know it, and couldn’t care less about it.

JAT is having his ears tickled, but not by me.
You do realize when you read the Old Testament the way the Israelites read it (if you are going to use that standard) they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, they are still waiting on him to come and they never thought he would be crucified. So you are reading Jewish writings through the eyes of a Christian.
 
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RLT63

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If there are only "wheat and weeds"..."sheep and goats"..."one road to life and the other to death".....there has to be those "few" who are on the right road...and the "many" who are on the wrong one. (Matthew 7:13-14) Jesus will let us know soon enough whether we are traveling the right road.

Fulfilling the criteria that is outlined in the Bible for identifying true Christians....I don't see any who come close to them....which is why I came out of Christendom and became a worshipper of Jehovah as one of his Witnesses. Ours is a united global brotherhood who all agree on one truth, though we speak many languages. There is no dissension in our ranks, which makes us rather unique in this world, IMO.
There is no dissension because it is not allowed.
 
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Wrangler

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Another person was involved and he was not a JW. I think that was their biggest problem with the situation.
What a shame! When she needs community support more than ever, she is abandoned.

As Aunty Jane said, there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe the elders thought it best to use her as an example to other unmarried young women.
 

RLT63

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What a shame! When she needs community support more than ever, she is abandoned.

As Aunty Jane said, there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe the elders thought it best to use her as an example to other unmarried young women.
Her daughter has grown up and became very successful and well known in the community.
 

Mr E

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You do realize when you read the Old Testament the way the Israelites read it (if you are going to use that standard) they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, they are still waiting on him to come and they never thought he would be crucified. So you are reading Jewish writings through the eyes of a Christian.

That’s absolutely true. If you have any doubts, befriend a Jew and have your doubts removed.
 
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