What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....

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ScottA

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but then the "repent or perish", why is there a contradiction, or is it? Thanks this can really help me right now.
There is no contradiction. The "repent or perish" passage(s) is to those who are not yet "in Christ."

The meaning of being "in Christ" is that it is no longer we "who live but Christ who lives in" us. It means "It is finished" regarding the matter of salvation for those who are "in Christ." Yet many stumble on the would-be evidence of ongoing sin in those of who it is no longer they who live but Christ who lives in them. That is simply a lack of knowledge regarding what has actually transpired. One must first concede that these things are on the higher order of God than men are accustom to viewing things. Then the scriptures describe an old life that is dead, and a new live ("in Christ") that is alive to God, and that we then walk with Him as dead in one respect, and also as alive in another respect. Jesus even eluded to this mystery speaking of this death/life existence as "two" people, saying, "two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." In other words, that one that was born of the flesh shall be left to be dissolved with the earth and its elements, while the one that is born [again] of the spirit of God, will be taken to forever be with the Lord.
 
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Phoneman777

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The only ones that receive “ Mercy” are those people with Contrite hearts that see the “ need” for Mercy, and then humbly ask fo it......

“ ANYBODY that ASKS for Mercy shall receive it” .....I’ve had “ that” covered for over 50 years....A poor, Wretched Sinner like me that has a Contite Heart has more hope than the Proud and Delusional man that thinks he is a “ Good” man who sees no need for God's Mercy....

Ever read the story about the Proud, self- Righteous Pharisee and the Sinful Publican who visited the Temple? I identify with the Publican with the Contrite Heart.....how about you?

Luke 18:9-14
It's not enough to confess our guilt...we must repent of that which brings guilt upon us by surrendering our hearts to Jesus and trusting in His grace to both cover our sin and empower us to turn from them:

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

See who gets mercy? Those who "FORSAKETH" their sins.
 
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Phoneman777

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Yes there's a difference in the one who intentionally sins without trying. Do you mean by "falling" into sin things such as your thoughts that go by throughout the day? And I want to say I hope no one here thinks I'm a tramp when I said the sin of the flesh desire is one that can be really hard to overcome. What I was talking about was that I like the praise of men in one way, it gives me self esteem and that's how I learned it but I also like the praise of God and realize that if you delight yourself in the Lord, He will give you the desires of your heart.
Y'know, "fall" into it. You get a horrible work assignment one morning and instead of thanking God, you get all filled up with the devil and get mad at the boss. You've "fallen" into sin.

Later, the Holy Spirit reminds you "all things work together for good to them that love God" and you feel ashamed and sorrowful and apologize to God and decide to go forward with a Christian attitude to do whatever it is He has seen fit to allow to come your way today. THIS IS THE "JUST MAN" WHO'S FALLEN INTO SIN, BUT RISES UP AGAIN.

However, the "PRESUMPTUOUS MAN" impenitently resists the Holy Spirit and stubbornly holds an unwarranted grudge against the boss and plots revenge via goofing off or charging OT without actually working it or whatever...this man is guilty of the "great transgression" and unless he repents, he'll end up lost.

What do you think?
 

thelord's_pearl

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Y'know, "fall" into it. You get a horrible work assignment one morning and instead of thanking God, you get all filled up with the devil and get mad at the boss. You've "fallen" into sin.

Later, the Holy Spirit reminds you "all things work together for good to them that love God" and you feel ashamed and sorrowful and apologize to God and decide to go forward with a Christian attitude to do whatever it is He has seen fit to allow to come your way today. THIS IS THE "JUST MAN" WHO'S FALLEN INTO SIN, BUT RISES UP AGAIN.

However, the "PRESUMPTUOUS MAN" impenitently resists the Holy Spirit and stubbornly holds an unwarranted grudge against the boss and plots revenge via goofing off or charging OT without actually working it or whatever...this man is guilty of the "great transgression" and unless he repents, he'll end up lost.

What do you think?
I see, thanks!
 

Phoneman777

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I see, thanks!
You're welcome!

I always say God gave us marriage to demonstrate the kind of relationship He wants with us, but even more close...

yet, somehow most Christians think they can be unfaithful to God yet wouldn't dream of being unfaithful to their spouse.
Did our spouse die create the world in which we live?
Does our spouse sustain us with air and water and food from the field, garden, and orchard?
Did our spouse die to save us?
Does our spouse deserve our faithfulness more than God?

Hard questions for most.
 

Gospel Believer

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It's not enough to confess our guilt...we must repent of that which brings guilt upon us by surrendering our hearts to Jesus and trusting in His grace to both cover our sin and empower us to turn from them:

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

See who gets mercy? Those who "FORSAKETH" their sins.


So if one does not conquer all of the sins in their life, they don’t receive any mercy? I thought that Jesus said that all you had to do was Ask for it....in fact, I even quoted Him....I would think that when it comes to sin in regard to Salvation, the totality Of ones Sins would be covered by the Blood if one is a Believer....If one does not “ forsake” their sins, I would think that would be where God would use Chastisement to help a person “come around” ......Salvation would not be in question....That Salvation was a Gift
 

Phoneman777

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So if one does not conquer all of the sins in their life, they don’t receive any mercy?
You and I don't do the conquering - we do the surrendering. JESUS DOES THE CONQUERING, right?

"More than conquerors" doesn't mean "diplomatic immunity from the guilt of habitual sin" as many Christians today so desperately define it. It means Jesus in us conquering sin for us with guaranteed victory imparted to us.

See? There's no excuse for holding onto sins instead of confessing and forsaking them because Jesus already has victory in hand the moment we choose to do so and trust that He'll give us victory. The problem is that period between choosing to turn from sin and gaining the victory - that tough part when we're in the valley of temptation and we want to sin so bad we think we'll die if we don't.

That's God testing you.
Seeing if you got the stuff.
Seeing if you really desire to walk the talk.
Seeing if you really love Him or not.

In Hebrews 12:4 KJV, Paul says until you've struggled against sin so violently that you paint the ground red with your sweat like Jesus did in the Garden, don't even think about arguing "you can't keep the law". Yet, these same people who argue that will give into temptation long before they even begin to break a sweat, let alone sweat "as it were great drops of blood."

God's love is unconditional; His salvation is very much conditional: on condition we choose repentance and trust He will give us the victory, and "choice" is not works, it's thought. "Choose ye this day", friend.
 
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thelord's_pearl

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It's not enough to confess our guilt...we must repent of that which brings guilt upon us by surrendering our hearts to Jesus and trusting in His grace to both cover our sin and empower us to turn from them:

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

See who gets mercy? Those who "FORSAKETH" their sins.
Thanks for this @Phoneman777, helped me a lot!!! with clarification on who gets mercy, those who confess and FORSAKETH their sins!
 

Phoneman777

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Thanks for this @Phoneman777, helped me a lot!!! with clarification on who gets mercy, those who confess and FORSAKETH their sins!
All praise and glory to God, my friend. I preach an unpopular truth, but preach it I must. Today's church is filled with weak, sniveling, defeated pew warmers whose eyes are fixed on human weakness instead of Christ's strength. My old boss used to ask the crew when we missed a deadline if the problem was with "skill or will"...well, when it comes to salvation, skill isn't even part of the equation - our absolute best is woefully deficient. It's always a matter of the will. If we're willing, He's able, right?
 

Gospel Believer

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You and I don't do the conquering - we do the surrendering. JESUS DOES THE CONQUERING, right?



You are preaching to the choir in this instance my friend....at least with his one sentence of your Confused Tirade....I surrendered to Jesus a long, long time ago.....


You go out your way to emphasize that “ Jesus Does the Conquering “ and then you proceed to give a lecture on the worship of “ Will Power”.......That ain’t “Jesus “ doing it—- it’s “ You” and your Will Power doing it....talk about “ Working” for ones Salvation! According to your “ take” , the Bible must say, “ By Will-Power, Thou Art Saved, lest any man should boast”.....

Even if you “ kept the Law” with your Mighty Will- Power ( and of course, you don't) you would find out that you had been barking up the wrong tree—- “ By The Works Of The Law, NO Flesh will be Justified”.....

The only “ test” that anybody has to pass to get Saved and Stay Saved is do you REST in Pauls Gospel Of Grace Found In 1Cor 15 :1-4

You are not “ Trusting “ to be Saved .....You are “ Trying” to be Saved by Gritting your teeth and thinking that you are impressing God with your own Strength and Will - Power.....Woe to Those That “ lack the stuff” that “YOU” possess ! Wow..... talk about Pride....I wonder how you must really look down your self- Righteous Nose when you see others that struggle with sin and can’t “ walk the talk” that you think that “ you” do and naturally, these poor inferiors that sometimes give in to the sins that “ so EASILY beset us” don’t really “ Love God” ......such arrogance and lack of compassion for those that truly struggle with temptations makes me want to vomit....

I am not by any means comparing your “ doctrine” to to Nazi Doctrine, But the only thing that pops into my mind after reading this is the Nazi propaganda film “ Triumph Of The Will”.......Paul Warned against “ Will Worship —- it’s been around for a long time....your entire world revolves around it....

Strange how your “ doctrine” is completely devoid of Grace .....when you stand before God on Judgement Day, I’m sure you will be eager to boast about how you “ measured up” and “kept the Law” ( a feat that both Peter and Paul admitted they could not do) with all of your Self - Control and Will Power That your inferiors lacked....meanwhile, there we will be others, who you blindly and arrogantly proclaim are “ weak “ and “ sniveling”, that will NOT be Boasting about “ their” Strength But will be thanking and praising Jesus for “ His” Strength and thanking Him for the ONLY thing that ever got Anybody Saved—— GRACE! You don’t mention it because you think you don’t need it.....let’s see how you feel about that when you stand before a Perfect , Holy God Who DEMANDS it from you too ! Me? I got it.....it was “ Inputed “ to me because I did not TRY to earn it.....I simply did God's Will —- I Believed in the One that He sent.....I did not “ Believe” in * MYSELF* and my Will- Power......
There is nothing wrong with “ Self-Control, mind you.....it’s a Fruit Of The Spirit.....it comes naturally to those that Trust Jesus .....you , my friend, have turned it into an Idol......you are promoting a “ False and Perverted ” Gospel ......You are in danger of being “ Accursed” and your little admiring friend is L Fallen From Grace”..... read Galatians .....and you talk about “ sweating drops of blood” to keep the Law....Remember while you are “ keeping that Law”, If you break just ONE , you break them all.....Don’t go down that road.....and don't take your acolyte with you......
 

robert derrick

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I love your post! You made things so clear!!!! Thank you, robert derrick! :)
Just rmember. We know if we are sinning with the flesh or not. And Jesus let's us know, if need to come clean and be forgiven of Him.

the favorite snare of the devil, is to throw guilt trips upon the innocent sheep of Jesus.

Saying 'undivine' thoughts is sinning, is obviously ridiculous. It also says Jesus was the biggest sinner of all time on earth, who had tempting thoughts in all points.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

But that is taught by those who also openly claim Paul called himself the chiefest of sinners, as an apostle, and not just as a persecutor of the church, and destroyer of the faith.
 

thelord's_pearl

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You and I don't do the conquering - we do the surrendering. JESUS DOES THE CONQUERING, right?



You are preaching to the choir in this instance my friend....at least with his one sentence of your Confused Tirade....I surrendered to Jesus a long, long time ago.....


You go out your way to emphasize that “ Jesus Does the Conquering “ and then you proceed to give a lecture on the worship of “ Will Power”.......That ain’t “Jesus “ doing it—- it’s “ You” and your Will Power doing it....talk about “ Working” for ones Salvation! According to your “ take” , the Bible must say, “ By Will-Power, Thou Art Saved, lest any man should boast”.....

Even if you “ kept the Law” with your Mighty Will- Power ( and of course, you don't) you would find out that you had been barking up the wrong tree—- “ By The Works Of The Law, NO Flesh will be Justified”.....

The only “ test” that anybody has to pass to get Saved and Stay Saved is do you REST in Pauls Gospel Of Grace Found In 1Cor 15 :1-4

You are not “ Trusting “ to be Saved .....You are “ Trying” to be Saved by Gritting your teeth and thinking that you are impressing God with your own Strength and Will - Power.....Woe to Those That “ lack the stuff” that “YOU” possess ! Wow..... talk about Pride....I wonder how you must really look down your self- Righteous Nose when you see others that struggle with sin and can’t “ walk the talk” that you think that “ you” do and naturally, these poor inferiors that sometimes give in to the sins that “ so EASILY beset us” don’t really “ Love God” ......such arrogance and lack of compassion for those that truly struggle with temptations makes me want to vomit....

I am not by any means comparing your “ doctrine” to to Nazi Doctrine, But the only thing that pops into my mind after reading this is the Nazi propaganda film “ Triumph Of The Will”.......Paul Warned against “ Will Worship —- it’s been around for a long time....your entire world revolves around it....

Strange how your “ doctrine” is completely devoid of Grace .....when you stand before God on Judgement Day, I’m sure you will be eager to boast about how you “ measured up” and “kept the Law” ( a feat that both Peter and Paul admitted they could not do) with all of your Self - Control and Will Power That your inferiors lacked....meanwhile, there we will be others, who you blindly and arrogantly proclaim are “ weak “ and “ sniveling”, that will NOT be Boasting about “ their” Strength But will be thanking and praising Jesus for “ His” Strength and thanking Him for the ONLY thing that ever got Anybody Saved—— GRACE! You don’t mention it because you think you don’t need it.....let’s see how you feel about that when you stand before a Perfect , Holy God Who DEMANDS it from you too ! Me? I got it.....it was “ Inputed “ to me because I did not TRY to earn it.....I simply did God's Will —- I Believed in the One that He sent.....I did not “ Believe” in * MYSELF* and my Will- Power......
There is nothing wrong with “ Self-Control, mind you.....it’s a Fruit Of The Spirit.....it comes naturally to those that Trust Jesus .....you , my friend, have turned it into an Idol......you are promoting a “ False and Perverted ” Gospel ......You are in danger of being “ Accursed” and your little admiring friend is L Fallen From Grace”..... read Galatians .....and you talk about “ sweating drops of blood” to keep the Law....Remember while you are “ keeping that Law”, If you break just ONE , you break them all.....Don’t go down that road.....and don't take your acolyte with you......
No it's talking about your faith in works, not your own works. Your own works from prior to when you're a Christian will not be like after you know Jesus of the Bible. it's your faith in Jesus that you do the works he commands us and you are also given the Holy Spirit (sword of the Spirit-Word of God) to help you.
 

thelord's_pearl

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Sorry, to put it more better or altogether, because you have faith, that compels you and Christ gives you strength in your effort to overcome your sins. The ones you cannot overcome because it's in your thoughts and being then you just have to confess it and He will cleanse you from all unrighteousness.
 

thelord's_pearl

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All praise and glory to God, my friend. I preach an unpopular truth, but preach it I must. Today's church is filled with weak, sniveling, defeated pew warmers whose eyes are fixed on human weakness instead of Christ's strength. My old boss used to ask the crew when we missed a deadline if the problem was with "skill or will"...well, when it comes to salvation, skill isn't even part of the equation - our absolute best is woefully deficient. It's always a matter of the will. If we're willing, He's able, right?

Revelation 3: 15-16
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
---
Yes @Phoneman777, you reminded me of the Scripture I was thinking about. It says 'So, because you are lukewarm -- neither hot nor cold -- I am about to spit you out of my mouth.(!) God wants us to be exceptional! Not stagnant but moving (faith in our "works/deeds")
 
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quietthinker

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What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....​

It means Jesus does not condemn.

John 3:17
'For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved'.
 

thelord's_pearl

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What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....​

It means Jesus does not condemn.

John 3:17
'For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved'.
oh, but we are condemned if we walk not by the Spirit, but by the flesh - I felt it, the conviction when I didn't listen to God, that told me the truth, like the Scripture said, it guided me into all truth. I thought to myself, it might be Satan and not God but that feeling was of God and not Satan and it lined up with the Word -- sometimes we have to read Scripture as a whole of the entire message and not in bits. Was the "repent or perish" said to the people who were followers/Christians or non-Christians? Thanks!
 
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quietthinker

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oh, but we are condemned if we walk not by the Spirit, but by the flesh - I felt it, the conviction when I didn't listen to God, that told me the truth, like the Scripture said, it guided me into all truth. I thought to myself, it might be Satan and not God but that feeling was of God and not Satan and it lined up with the Word -- sometimes we have to read Scripture as a whole of the entire message and not in bits. Was the "repent or perish" said to the people who were followers/Christians or non-Christians? Thanks!
Conviction is not condemnation. We condemn ourselves when we distance ourselves from the Salvation freely given.
Salvation is always there....it has never gone away. It is us who have gone away.

Recognising the order/priority and trusting it gives hope. Confusing the order/priority inevitably results in relying on ones own works to gain favour with God. We forget that it is a free gift.

'Free' and 'gift' is saying the same thing. A gift given which has an expectation of a return is a trade, not a gift.

Repentance is the heart sincerely recognising its shortfall, it's rebellion and desiring the better in spite of its weakness. It trusts in the gift given.
 
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thelord's_pearl

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Conviction is not condemnation. We condemn ourselves when we distance ourselves from the Salvation freely given.
Salvation is always there....it has never gone away. It is us who have gone away.

Recognising the order/priority and trusting it gives hope. Confusing the order/priority inevitably results in relying on ones own works to gain favour with God. We forget that it is a free gift.

'Free' and 'gift' is saying the same thing. A gift given which has an expectation of a return is a trade, not a gift.

Repentance is the heart sincerely recognising its shortfall, it's rebellion and desiring the better in spite of its weakness. It trusts in the gift given.
thanks for clarifying things! :)