What does it mean to be born again?

[Waiting on him]

Acts 7:42-43 KJV
[42] Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? [43] Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The Old Testament is full of God saying, I’m sick of you sacrificing!

Yes. He wanted their hearts. He didn’t have their hearts.
8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

 

[Waiting on him]

The way it reads to me is He was saying it was always a man’s heart He desired. It was always a man’s heart He wanted the man to give Him.
But to get the balance and not have an incomplete and lopsided understanding, you have to see that…well, it’s like if you look at our countries laws. It always starts with a law, which some find ways around or loopholes, so another law needs to be written. Then another and another. The laws are written for those who DONT keep the law, not for those who DO.

And the garden shows this. They had one command. Just one!

John 1:18 KJV
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Grace and truth didn’t come by Moses?

 

[Waiting on him]

John 1:17 KJV
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes. He wanted their hearts. He didn’t have their hearts.
8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

It all changed with Jesus!

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes. He wanted their hearts. He didn’t have their hearts.
8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

You hear his voice!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe the way I communicate comes across as arguing sometimes.

I think you are just happy to find even a few brothers or sisters who see some of the spirit of the words and you want to discuss everything at once.
You so rarely come across anyone who isn’t just regurgitating and arguing for the wrong way we’ve gone and have been led by our “leaders” and spitting the bad doctrines. So it’s like we spend so much time without any brothers to help and be helped by that we can’t contain ourselves when we have the good chance of actually finding one.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It all changed with Jesus!

Yes.
And that’s when we heard, you’ve heard it said, but I say, and all the law and prophets spoke OF Me, and now, follow Me this new way.

 

[Lizbeth]

Before you make a doctrine out of a verse, you have to find the verses that are in tension to it, that appear to say the opposite, and work to understand and have the balance. Otherwise, you end up lopsided in a way that gives too much weight to matters that aren’t as important comparatively and give too little weight to the weightiest matters, like mercy, for instance. It is like…the gnat and camel. And it is like…always putting your thumb on the scale in your favor and against the favor of your neighbor.

Go back and read the entirety of what I posted, when I first brought that verse, and try to see the point. There is just no case made in the scriptures for unbelievers being saved. You have to ignore, twist and wrest passages of scripture in order to come a conclusion like that. The new testament says that God at one time winked at sin (as it were), but now He commands all men everywhere to REPENT....ie, turn to God and be reconciled to Him. To whom much is given much is required, and God GAVE the whole world His only begotten Son. There is only one Way, and that is a narrow way, not a broad way....through the Son who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The broad way is the way of the many and leads to destruction, not salvation.

To say otherwise is another gospel.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’m going to stop for a minute and go back to read all I surely must have missed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There is just no case made in the scriptures for unbelievers being saved.

I think some will be welcomed in. I see it in the parables. Not everyone can see them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The spirit of Amalek. Those who combine their carnal reasoning with the words of God. It catches the simple ones...the ones who lag behind. it preys on the weak...and the newer converts...making them dogmatic ideologues rather true disciples of Christ.

There is a great temptation to try being perfected through one's own understanding...rather than going to God. The spirit of Amalek is easily discerned. All you have to say is...you need to seek God's face for a full measure of grace...and the fangs come out. Amalek champions the best of the flesh and mocks the work of the cross to destroy sinful flesh. Amalek is looking for the death to be passed over...as Agag said..."surely the bitterness of death is passed me by" (1 Sam. 15:32) All enemies of the cross are of Amalek. And they will attack those who preach the power of the gospel.

Thanks for summarizing it for me here. It’s seen in the animal kingdom too. Predators go after the weak and lagging of the herd. God spoke of it when He said, This is what the Lord says: “Just as the shepherd snatches from the lion’s mouth a couple of legs or a piece of an ear, So will the sons of Israel living in Samaria be snatched away— With the corner of a bed and the cover of a couch! It’s heartbreaking.

I know that sinking feeling of beginning to read and having such frustration of what does this mean, what does that mean?? And then wanting to just give up in impatience annd not wait patiently for God and seek out men to teach you.
And I don’t know why some escape the indoctrination and others don’t and so they become prey.

 

[Episkopos]

Go back and read the entirety of what I posted, when I first brought that verse, and try to see the point. There is just no case made in the scriptures for unbelievers being saved. You have to ignore, twist and wrest passages of scripture in order to come a conclusion like that. The new testament says that God at one time winked at sin (as it were), but now He commands all men everywhere to REPENT....ie, turn to God and be reconciled to Him. To whom much is given much is required, and God GAVE the whole world His only begotten Son. There is only one Way, and that is a narrow way, not a broad way....through the Son who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The broad way is the way of the many and leads to destruction, not salvation.

To say otherwise is another gospel.

A dogmatic understanding cannot fathom the ways of God. Trying to filter the wisdom of God as revealed in the bible just makes you a judgmental theorist...which doesn't work out well for you. God will have His way.

1. God will have mercy on whomever He wills. That means He doesn't need mere humans to agree with Him or not.
2. Those whom you consider to be unbelievers are not what God considers as unbelievers. There are many saved unbelieving Christians. Just like there will be many who will be saved who are not believers in the legalistic sense. You have to stop determining the meaning of all the words you are not getting a proper understanding of. It's not your job to define who is accepted with God and who isn't. Only religious Pharisees do that.
3. God is not legalistic.
4; God doesn't respect persons.
5.God is only merciful to the merciful. So while you put all your hopes on your beliefs...God looks at the heart. If you judge, then you will be judged. If you claim to be righteous, then you will be judged with all the others who claim to be righteous...having a portion with the hypocrites. If we don't judge then we won't be judged. And the meek (humble) inherit the earth. No legalism there.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John 1:18 KJV
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Grace and truth didn’t come by Moses?

Righteousness and peace kissed with Jesus.
The law was a tutor until then. But most men, even in Israel, never saw the words were spirit most importantly and not just letter.

David saw. He saw some of it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, the faith of a child... not so easy when our minds are used to rational thinking.

Yes. The entire world and its siren song try to keep us just as Pharoah refused to let Gods people go. Added to that, our own flesh tries to pull us back to the world. Satan also is the third enemy. The world, the flesh, the devil. Our three enemies.
It is not easy. It’s great difficulty, most especially in the unrenewed mind. And as you said elsewhere, it’s little by little.

 

[Waiting on him]

Righteousness and peace kissed with Jesus.
The law was a tutor until then. But most men, even in Israel, never saw the words were spirit most importantly and not just letter.

David saw. He saw some of it.

It’s all starting too look like it was some geographical conquest, in the name of god, as I mentioned earlier the patriarchs never received yet the actualy lived there in this land?

Sad thing is God destroyed all of it in the first century, and in three hundred years Rome had built it back up, and here we are 2000 years later in a land supposedly a conquest in the name of god, maybe we should ask our Native American brothers?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hey Epi, I’ve thought about this off and on for a few years but…I don’t think I ever spoke with you about it.
You know the tree that has a…crop every month and leaves for the healing of the nations? Why would people with eternal life need to eat monthly from the tree? Does that strike you as odd? I remember once thinking, oh well it must be during the millennium, but I read it again and it appeared to me to be on the new heaven and earth, therefore after the millennium. Any thoughts?

The only thing that possibly comes to mind is that…some of those of the second resurrection who are welcomed in did not receive His Spirit but are given the right to the tree once a month and…I don’t know, I cannot put it together…

 

[Waiting on him]

No one will ever convince me that God ordered them to besieg a city and kill all its inhabitants. This is imperialism at its finest, fuel by religious dogma.

 

[amigo de christo]

Her verse is showing the current status of a Non-born again person.

They are already DAMNED, and are waiting to go to hell.
You read that the WRATH of God is ON them.....and that is not a myth, mistranslation, or obtuse concept.

How do you get the "wrath of God" off of you?


Jesus said.....>"you must be born again".

Final answer.

People who went to hell today....water baptized, bible teachers, trying to be like Christ.....were not born again.

There are no born again in Hell.
There are no Christ Rejectors, never born again, in Heaven.

Hell has enlarged her mouth , however , to all who preach a lie . who love a lie and thus preached
some other way or path to God . YE MUST BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND . and not ophrah wimphery
francis and their all inclusive many path many way to GOD lie . which they have so cleverly wrapped up
in a word they call love . And yet it aint love . FOR true charity rejoices iN TRUTH ALONE
and the TRUTH IS , BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS and you will be saved
and the same truth and said , But those wo believe not shall be damned .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes. The entire world and its siren song try to keep us just as Pharoah refused to let Gods people go. Added to that, our own flesh tries to pull us back to the world. Satan also is the third enemy. The world, the flesh, the devil. Our three enemies.
It is not easy. It’s great difficulty, most especially in the unrenewed mind. And as you said elsewhere, it’s little by little.

It seems like the deck is stacked against us. World, flesh, devil.
But really, God has stacked the deck FOR us. Works all things to the good of those who are called AND those who love Him. No weapon formed against you will prosper. Those who lay nets will be caught in their own nets. And many, many more.
So it’s not easy but God is for us.

Even in just temporal life we have a saying that it’s amazing any of us even survived childhood at all. We all have a story about that!