What does it mean to be born again?

[Episkopos]

Hmm…I still have in my mind that it must mean sin offering rather than sin.
Its the only thing that makes sense to me, that it means God made Jesus, who knew no sin, to be a sin offering for us so that we might become/have the right to become the righteousness of God.

To me it’s like saying, God made a spotless lamb to be a sin offering for us so we would be covered by His blood for the forgiveness of sins so that we might become the righteousness of God IN HIM.

John called Him the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.
He gives us reconciliation and peace with God.
He doesn’t and didn’t become sin, He takes AWAY sin and gives us the right to be called sons of God.

For sure God allowed His Son to be a sin offering. Jesus gave Himself over willingly to be slaughtered like a lamb. But God did not make Jesus sin for us. We did that. God is above and beyond our motivations. So there is a difference between being a sin offering and being seen as being sinful.

The key is..."who knew no sin". God would never accuse an innocent person of something they didn't do. But God knew what men would do.

 

[Episkopos]

I just can’t see it as saying: evil men made Him to be sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. It was all Gods plan, not the plan of evil men.

God gave Himself over to be judged by men...who saw Him as evil. God cannot see His Son as evil or sinful. But He can offer Himself for the sins of evil men.

 

[Titus]

God would never accuse an innocent person of something they didn't do

Amen. God would not accuse an innocent person of a sin they did not commit but a calvinist would. The inherited sin of Adam.

 

[Episkopos]

Bible teaches born again as regeneration.
Ye must be born again, John 3:7
-Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Reformed Churches of the Protestant reformation will teach you one cannot be born again i.e. regenerated without a miracle by the Holy Spirit. Their theology has one regenerated before faith.
One cannot have faith in Christ with a "Totally depraved heart".
God must work a miracle to transform ones heart that they might then have the ability to believe in Jesus.
This doctrine puts being born again before faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:5
-not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through,
the washing of regeneration(born again) and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

The higher faith comes after regeneration...the faith OF Christ. But this only becomes activated as we are crucified in the outer man and enter INTO Christ with the inner man. This leads to holiness.

The bible teaches faith comes before regeneration,
The Bible is very plain that the lost sinner can hear the gospel and believe it.
No saved regenerated person hears the gospel and believes because he is already saved.

This is also true...with human faith. This leads to righteousness.

Romans 10:17
-So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

God teaches us all can understand His gospel, no need for regeneration to understand the scriptures.

Ephesians 3:4
-by which when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.

This disproves the churches that hold to reformed doctrine aka calvinism.

Unregenerate folks can understand the sacred Scriptures and even believe that Jesus died, buried and rose from the dead,
John 12:42
-Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Some would argue these men are saved because they have belief in Jesus.
Not possible because the love men and their power more than the love to confess that Jesus is God.
1Corinthians 16:24,
-If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed, O, Lord come!

There are two levels to the New Covenant. Like an upper room built on a ground floor. There is what we can do (ground floor)...and what we can do through Christ who empowers us (upper room). Both are required for conformity to Christ.

However, if we lose our own righteousness...the ground floor....then the whole edifice comes crashing down. God builds His righteousness on ours. We need to be faithful.

 

[Episkopos]

It just puts me in tears. That He loves and cares for me that much that He said, I will die so she can live.

Agreed. The confusion comes in with justifying sin and forcing Jesus to continue to forgive us by our religious will.

 

[Titus]

The higher faith comes after regeneration...the faith OF Christ. But this only becomes activated as we are crucified in the outer man and enter INTO Christ with the inner man. This leads to holiness.



This is also true...with human faith. This leads to righteousness.

There are two levels to the New Covenant. Like an upper room built on a ground floor. There is what we can do (ground floor)...and what we can do through Christ who empowers us (upper room). Both are required for conformity to Christ.

However, if we lose our own righteousness...the ground floor....then the whole edifice comes crashing down. God builds His righteousness on ours. We need to be faithful.

Hello, I'm about to hit the hay. If you desire to teach me your doctrine. You must convince me it is the oracles of God and not the philosophy of men.
So, please use book, chapter and verse otherwise it's just opinions.
Speak where the bible speaks and be silent where the bible is silent.

 

[Johann]

So, please use book, chapter and verse otherwise it's just opinions.
Speak where the bible speaks and be silent where the bible is silent.

Hit the nail that sticks out right on the head...the oracles of God is left out completely and it is just philosophizing.

 

[Huperetes]

Your tit-for-tat pitting of one scripture against another--which I did not "discombobulate" but quoted--is an offence to God...as if He contradicted Himself. Blessings indeed!

On the contrary, I showed the error and the truth by scripture, that whether in death or in life, "today is the time of salvation"--not the rest of one's life. And I didn't mention "sin"--you did.

There was no pitting scripture against scripture. Just a correcting of your paradigm based on your errant interpretation of them. Yes, today IS the day of salvation...but not the day for instant Christian maturity. This DOES take the rest of one's life because it is a progressive experience.

2 Co 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[Johann]

Yes, today IS the day of salvation...but not the day for instant Christian maturity. This DOES take the rest of one's life because it is a progressive experience.

"are being transformed" This is a PRESENT PASSIVE INDICATIVE.

All of the VERBALS in this context are PASSIVE VOICE, implying God's activity on our behalf, transforming believers into Christ's likeness (cf. Rom. 12:2). This same VERB is used of the Transfiguration (cf. Matt. 17:2; Mark 9:2). We get the English word metamorphosis from this Greek term.

"into the same image" Jesus is the image of God (cf. 2 Cor. 4:4; John 1:14-18; 14:9; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3). Humans were created in the image of God (cf. Gen. 1:26-27). Believers are in the image of Christ (cf. Rom. 8:29-30). Christlikeness is God's primary goal for all believers (cf. Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4).

"from glory to glory" There are stages in God's plan of restoration and renewal. Believers are in a process that leads to Christlikeness (cf. 1 John 3:2).

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.


This process, is deliberately denied by some, yet it is biblically correct.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s strange to me how I can hear someone put the truth into their own words and illustrations and the relevant verses come into my own mind but others complain that no scripture is being used. I know Mathew used to do that a lot but he at least admitted he hadn’t read all of his Bible, so I could at least understand it. But for men who have read it all, it puzzles me as to why they can’t recognize something being said is true…
Its like…if someone said, thats a jelly and peanut butter sandwich, they would say the man is lying because he said jelly first instead of the way they are accustomed to hearing it said, with peanut butter put first.
Its just puzzling.

 

[Episkopos]

It’s strange to me how I can hear someone put the truth into their own words and illustrations and the relevant verses come into my own mind but others complain that no scripture is being used. I know Mathew used to do that a lot but he at least admitted he hadn’t read all of his Bible, so I could at least understand it. But for men who have read it all, it puzzles me as to why they can’t recognize something being said is true…
Its like…if someone said, thats a jelly and peanut butter sandwich, they would say the man is lying because he said jelly first instead of the way they are accustomed to hearing it said, with peanut butter put first.
Its just puzzling.

Awww....spiritual understanding requires more than just chapter and verse. Indoctrination, on the other hand, requires that there be religious sounding formulas. When one tries to show the very same thing using different wordings...then it sounds like a vain philosophy. Why? Because their understanding is empty.

Many here see actually understanding the bible as wrong. They don't think its possible to understand. Instead, they want a formula to accept and feel saved with. But they will react very strongly against the actual intended meaning of the text.

I think it is amazing that God has hidden the truth so well. It's only as our minds and hearts become aligned in the fear of the Lord that we can see the depth and scale of the truth. His ways are above and beyond our ways.

I see this phenomenon as accepting religious dogma as the truth that is BELOW us. But everything that is above us is rejected. Instead of marveling at the truth it is rejected outright. So then people are still in control of their lives....not God......the flesh still dictates what is true and what is false. These don't realize how the truth appears to a carnal understanding.

 

[Episkopos]

"are being transformed" This is a PRESENT PASSIVE INDICATIVE.

All of the VERBALS in this context are PASSIVE VOICE, implying God's activity on our behalf, transforming believers into Christ's likeness (cf. Rom. 12:2). This same VERB is used of the Transfiguration (cf. Matt. 17:2; Mark 9:2). We get the English word metamorphosis from this Greek term.

"into the same image" Jesus is the image of God (cf. 2 Cor. 4:4; John 1:14-18; 14:9; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3). Humans were created in the image of God (cf. Gen. 1:26-27). Believers are in the image of Christ (cf. Rom. 8:29-30). Christlikeness is God's primary goal for all believers (cf. Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4).

"from glory to glory" There are stages in God's plan of restoration and renewal. Believers are in a process that leads to Christlikeness (cf. 1 John 3:2).

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.


This process, is deliberately denied by some, yet it is biblically correct.

You are confusing a Christ-likeness in character with holiness. No one improves themselves into holiness. Holiness is God's alone. He is holy. But maturity belongs to all who by faithful obedience to His training surrender themselves to God.

 

[Taken]

Grrr…!
This makes no sense to me. At all.

Dead has a duel meaning.
* Physically, when the mortal body ceases to be alive.
* Spiritually, (whether or not the body is alive or mortally dead), Dead is Separated from God. (Ie. NOT with God).

* He who is Not “WITH” God, is “Against” God.
* With God, IS Saved.
* Against God, IS spiritually DEAD.
* God does not Save the Sav-ED.
* God Saves, those who are “spiritually DEAD in their sin <—> Against God”,
Who have accepted His Offering, His Order, His Way to Be “WITH” God.

Col 2:
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Earthly men are Naturally Born, (of a mans seed), DEAD to God, DEAD in Sin.
Earthly men are Naturally Born, not knowing God, not believing in God, not loving God, not WITH God.
Earthly men Naturally Born, hear, learn, choose to believe (or Not), choose to commit and confess their belief (or Not).
* Choose to believe? When your mortal body dies, THEN you shall be Saved.
All your SIN (Having HAD disbelief) is forgiven THEN.
* Choose to Confess Belief? Your body is Spiritually crucified with Christ and you become Saved THEN. All your SIN (Having HAD disbelief), is forgiven THEN. <—> You are NO LONGER...Dead in your SIN, (ie AGAINST God).
^ You Have the POWER of God Spirit “IN” you and can NEVER AGAIN be AGAINST (sin) God.
^ You Are NO LONGER “DEAD” in your sin. (Against God).
^ You CAN NEVER AGAIN be “dead” in sin. (Against God).
^ You are FREE FROM SIN, and can SIN no more.
^ You Are Now ALIVE “in” Christ. (Baptism of the Holy Spirit).

* When your body dies, it returns to dust.
* When your body is risen up, it is risen up HOLY / Perfect / Glorified.
* Your soul is forever RESTORED (very good), and with God Forever.
* Your spirit (natural truth in your heart) is born again with a new spirit (Gods truth in your heart.)
* Your new spirit in you and Gods Spirit In you, can THUS communicate, Personally, one on one.

A man may be able to have power over you, control you, force you to do all kinds of things...Prohibit you from going to Church...Make laws for it to be illegal to Believe in God....Make laws to Prevent teaching, speaking, About God.....
However, a man Forgiven, Dead to Sin, his Soul restored, his spirit Born Again, his Lord IN him....CAN communicate all day Long with the Lord...WITHOUT an other man KNOWING.

There ARE Nations of men, NOW that prevent Worshiping God.
We have witnessed men in the USA, preventing AND silencing the Teaching and Preaching of God.
We have Witnessed men in the USA, preventing Church attendance.

Do not be naive or ignorant, Scientists (on Behalf of Governments) have been for many years and continue to develop methods to systematically :
Kill men WHO believe. Physically AND through medical methods, procedures, (poisons, surgeries, brain washing, etc.) to corrupt a persons belief, to absolute rejection of God.....AND replacing God, for a person to Have complete belief, trust, faith IN THEM...(men <—> government power sitters)
THEM, THEY, the supposed world Masters of:
“FEAR, life, peace and safety”.

FEAR of God, is Reference unto Him.
FEAR of man, is being targeted for extermination.
Currently man has Openly Revealed 95% of the World’s Population is on THEIR targeted list for extermination and Prevention of more Births.... and the 5% will live in peace, safety, plenty of food, plenty of clean water AND every Peon an Equal SLAVE Worker and THEY the MASTER dictators, living in Luxury.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

Still, that is only one manner of speaking, that not all understand.

Did Jesus die on the Cross for your sin, or not?
And, That's not a "manner of Speaking"
That's your Salvation.

 

[Johann]

You are confusing a Christ-likeness in character with holiness. No one improves themselves into holiness. Holiness is God's alone. He is holy. But maturity belongs to all who by faithful obedience to His training surrender themselves to God.

@Episkopos all you are doing is philosophizing with words, without book, chapter and verse.
These are your opinions, and you are not my rabbi or teacher.
Also, your doctrine on sanctification is not correct.
I have listened to your video clips and have to confess that it is not coherent, confusing, but we have freedom of speech.
As you are redeeming the time, so am I.

No one improves themselves into holiness.

The one that is confused here is you, I am talking about Christlikeness, not "growing in holiness, or improving into holiness" since that is not found in Scriptures, however implied.

Gal_6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Eph_4:15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,

Eph_4:16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

2Th_3:13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good.

Heb_12:3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

1Pe_2:2 Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—

2Pe_3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

*Sounds like progressive, which you are in denial......*

Perfecting holiness (epitelountes hagiosunēn). Not merely negative goodness (cleansing), but aggressive and progressive (present tense of epiteleō) holiness, not a sudden attainment of complete holiness, but a continuous process (1Th_3:13; Rom_1:4; Rom_1:6).

Progressive, of which you are in denial...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The mystery, God's will/boule/thelema and our responsibilities to the Imperatives of YHVH, Christ, led/walking in the Ruach HaKodesh.

Clearly progressive
J.

 

[Johann]

The higher faith comes after regeneration...the faith OF Christ. But this only becomes activated as we are crucified in the outer man and enter INTO Christ with the inner man. This leads to holiness.



This is also true...with human faith. This leads to righteousness.

There are two levels to the New Covenant. Like an upper room built on a ground floor. There is what we can do (ground floor)...and what we can do through Christ who empowers us (upper room). Both are required for conformity to Christ.

However, if we lose our own righteousness...the ground floor....then the whole edifice comes crashing down. God builds His righteousness on ours. We need to be faithful.

I simply can't believe it is you typing this.

 

[ScottA]

There was no pitting scripture against scripture. Just a correcting of your paradigm based on your errant interpretation of them. Yes, today IS the day of salvation...but not the day for instant Christian maturity. This DOES take the rest of one's life because it is a progressive experience.

2 Co 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"No, yes, but..."

Got it!

 

[ScottA]

Did Jesus die on the Cross for your sin, or not?
And, That's not a "manner of Speaking"
That's your Salvation.

That is the better question...indeed. "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin."

 

[ScottA]

This process, is deliberately denied by some, yet it is biblically correct.

The fact that God has drawn o u t the "image", does not change the fact that one who "passes from death to life", does so "in the twinkling of an eye." It's a double entendre.

Life in this world is but a breath and time an illusion, of which there is but one last breath.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I feel like I’m watching an episode of The Office or something…