What if you lose your faith?

[Ferris Bueller]

the battle between good and evil between the war of lost and the saved has been going on since the fall of man that does not change what Christ did and how it affects us in the kingdom. The scriptures say we were bought with a price can you explain to me how we can lose what we do not own? better yet if we are born again that is a birth a new life how do you unbirth yourself?

Just make sure you are believing and you won't have to worry about it. Only believing people will be saved when Jesus comes back. What value is there in wondering if OSAS is true or not? What matters is that you are a believing person ready to meet Christ. Unbelieving people are the one's who won't make it through the coming judgment. That's the truth that matters. OSAS doesn't change that truth one iota.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hell .... = THE LAKE OF FIRE .

Not to nit pick, lol, but hell is not the lake of fire. In fact, hell will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of the age:

"Then Death and Hades (hell) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14​

 

[Philip James]

You want to be counted with those going to heaven....be good and do good....to the best of your ability.

1. See "that no one make thee to err" from this Way of the teaching, for he teaches thee without God.
2. For if thou canst bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect, but if thou canst not, do what thou canst.

~The Didache~

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Self Righteous believers can't stand the fact that God's Grace continues to be the same, unchanging for people who are born again,, but who don't live a holy life.

Ultimately, people who do not live a holy life are not born again:

"8The one who practices sin is of the devil" 1 John 3:8 ​

They are not disobedient believers. They are disobedient unbelievers. The change of life is the mark of the born again person:

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:9-10
​

For the struggling saint, this is talking about the person who is purposely and willfully living unchanged in his old sinful life. Saints on the other hand, despite their struggles with sin, are growing up into Christ, changing, increasing in the traits and qualities of the Spirit, and it is this increase, as slow as it may be, that gives us assurance and confirmation of our calling and election and that we are prepared to enter into the kingdom at the end of the age (2 Peter 1:5-11).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here's Jesus speaking to His children in the church of Ephesus...
KJV Revelation 2:2-7
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

These are definitely born again Spirit filled Christians...
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

reminds me of the passage immediately following if any fall away it is impossible to renew them again

And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. the church of Ephesus​

Hebrews 6:9-14 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
[10] For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shown toward his name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. [11] And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: [12] That you be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. [13] For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, [14] Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

About it being impossible…Two questions I’ve had for a while; 1) “with men it is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible. And 2) the verse today Jeremiah 32:27 Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?


Is there any thing to hard for Me?
Regarding hard I think of: a hardened heart. A hard ground that refuses the seed. Mostly because all the verses where that hardness is broken up, turned upside down and cultivated. As nothing is too hard for God? With men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Concerning if they fall away it is impossible to renew them again…we might immediately say “NO they put him to an open shame”. What of Christ bearing the cross where it says “despising the shame set before Him, He endured (the impossible?)for the Joy set before Him.” Enduring hardness
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Who persuaded them of better things though they yet spoke as thus?

 

[Cross8527]

As I said, I understand your line of thinking. It is just wrong. Heaven will not be full of evildoers. The scriptures are very clear on this point.

As I said, I understand your line of thinking. It is just wrong. Heaven will not be full of evildoers. The scriptures are very clear on this point.

The common misunderstanding of osas is that people make the assumption that asas means that people think they can do as they please and still be saved. This is a common misunderstanding as most osas believers are true Christians who will attest that you cannot simply do as you please and use osas as an excuse to sin

So my line of thinking isn't wrong you simply assume osas is about using it as an excuse to live as we please which is a very common misunderstanding

 

[Cross8527]

Just make sure you are believing and you won't have to worry about it. Only believing people will be saved when Jesus comes back. What value is there in wondering if OSAS is true or not? What matters is that you are a believing person ready to meet Christ. Unbelieving people are the one's who won't make it through the coming judgment. That's the truth that matters. OSAS doesn't change that truth one iota.

indeed it's a matter of the heart not what doctrine we see as truth or not

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

If they are fallen (having tasted of the heavenly gift and the power of the world to come: having borne, patience, and for His name's sake has laboured, and has not fainted.) Can they be renewed again after being once enlightened then fallen(if they fall away), can they be renewed again unto repentance? if not then why the urging to remember your first love and repent in “repent, and do the first works”

Either they have tasted of the heavenly gift and the power of the world to come…or they haven’t tasted of it …how could they NOT have been once enlightened if Christ is the light threatened to be removed (when threatened, He threatened not) where unless I’ve misunderstood they are fallen away and left who? “Will you go away also?” “But I have [this] against thee, that thou didst leave thy first love.”

Remember therefore whence thou art fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou repent.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:14

 

[Grailhunter]

The common misunderstanding of osas is that people make the assumption that asas means that people think they can do as they please and still be saved. This is a common misunderstanding as most osas believers are true Christians who will attest that you cannot simply do as you please and use osas as an excuse to sin

So my line of thinking isn't wrong you simply assume osas is about using it as an excuse to live as we please which is a very common misunderstanding

No it is not a common misunderstanding! LOL You might want to change beliefs?
OSAS --- Nothing you can do can separate you from Christ....Nothing you can do (sin) can prevent you from going to heaven.
Even lifestyles like LGTBQ are going to heaven as long as they believe in Christ. And then some OSAS people believe that repentance or even asking forgiveness is not necessary.

Maybe you are thinking of this definition....

Once a person is saved are they always saved? Yes, when people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. To be clear, salvation is more than saying a prayer or “making a decision” for Christ; salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner is washed, renewed, and born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27; James 2:26). Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:

I do have some issues with this definition, mostly humor. Of course I believe in free-will. But it still stipulates that the guarantee of salvation in contingent on moral behavior. So then if you are immoral, you were not saved to begin with. The humor side of this is that I seen people get baptized again...and again.

Here are few more...

The doctrine of “once saved, always saved” teaches that it is not possible for a child of God to sin in such a way that he will be lost. Many people, who undoubtedly are very sincere and possess a desire to do what is right, find tremendous comfort in this doctrine. This doctrine, however, is not taught in the Bible. It is an erroneous doctrine that provides a false comfort and a deceitful feeling of security.

 

[farouk]

The phrase is 'fall from grace', and it means to fall away from the grace of Christ:

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4​

Make whatever OSAS argument you want out of it, but as we can see in the verse above Paul said the Galatians have been severed from Christ and fallen away from grace. So don't change Biblical facts to suit your predetermined theological outcome. Paul said they fell away from Christ. You'll have to come up with another OSAS argument in order to preserve what we can see is so plainly written in the Bible. But as it is now, your present OSAS teaching directly contradicts what Paul said about the Galatians.

If they truly rely on works, then they never truly relied completely by faith in the work of Christ.

cc @Mink57

 

[Carl Emerson]

The phrase is 'fall from grace', and it means to fall away from the grace of Christ:

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4​

Make whatever OSAS argument you want out of it, but as we can see in the verse above Paul said the Galatians have been severed from Christ and fallen away from grace. So don't change Biblical facts to suit your predetermined theological outcome. Paul said they fell away from Christ. You'll have to come up with another OSAS argument in order to preserve what we can see is so plainly written in the Bible. But as it is now, your present OSAS teaching directly contradicts what Paul said about the Galatians.

First He is referring to certain individuals not all Galatians.

Secondly look at verse 10

10 I have confidence in you in the Lord, that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear the punishment, whoever he is.

Paul clearly says all is not lost for those who have fallen to this legal deception.

So in the context of reading the whole chapter instead on one verse the true picture emerges.

 

[Behold]

Wrong again......

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,”

You dont know that the knowledge of the Truth is...
So let me show you.

The TRUTH, is Jesus....
The Knowledge of the Truth, would be, (at the time of this verse, as its written to them), ... hearing the Gospel, and rejecting it.
If you "willingly" or "willfully" do that, then there is no sacrifice for your sin, as you have rejected the ONE who is your sacrifice.

In Hebrews 10, you have Hebrews, (not the body of Christ), but Hebrews (Jews) who deliberately, willfully, rejected their Messiah.
So, there remain no more sacrifice for them, as they rejected the only ONE.

 

[Behold]

Good grief.
When does it stop?

Romans 4:8

 

[Behold]

On this topic why do folks ignore Jeremiah 32:40 where the prophet predicts that the New Covenant will involve the indwelling presence, including the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord, to prevent falling away???

You can't stop being born again.
So, if you are born again, and later you have a faith Crisis........well, God knew you would on the day He saved you, and saved you anyway.
Why?
Because the Grace of God, the Blood of Jesus, is greater than your sin, always.

"where sin abounds, GRACE more abounds'...

What is losing your faith, if you've already been born again?
A.) You'll end up in a mess down here, but not up there.

The only thing about that situation, is that you have returned to total carnality, and Paul says that if you stay there, you'll die.
But you'll die Born again, as you can't stop being born again.

 

[Behold]

We are not sealed until Judgment Day. .

What you mean is you are not sealed., which explains your theology, and why its so anti-Cross.

I am sealed.
Many here are.
How do we know? Its because Jesus is in us.. "Christ in you, the hope of Glory" = All the born again are 'IN Christ", and "ONE with God".

 

[Behold]

So are you Calvinist? We are kept from sinning because we are robots?

The Born again are delivered from the "curse of the Law".
The curse of the law is 2 things.

1.) "The power of Sin is the Law",

2.) and the Law is a Judge, that judges you to BE a sinner, until you are "No longer under the Law, but under Grace".

This is why unbelievers who are "under the law" are SINNERS

And the Born again who are "under Grace" are SAINTS

 

[Cross8527]

No it is not a common misunderstanding! LOL You might want to change beliefs?
OSAS --- Nothing you can do can separate you from Christ....Nothing you can do (sin) can prevent you from going to heaven.
Even lifestyles like LGTBQ are going to heaven as long as they believe in Christ. And then some OSAS people believe that repentance or even asking forgiveness is not necessary.

Maybe you are thinking of this definition....

Once a person is saved are they always saved? Yes, when people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. To be clear, salvation is more than saying a prayer or “making a decision” for Christ; salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner is washed, renewed, and born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27; James 2:26). Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:

I do have some issues with this definition, mostly humor. Of course I believe in free-will. But it still stipulates that the guarantee of salvation in contingent on moral behavior. So then if you are immoral, you were not saved to begin with. The humor side of this is that I seen people get baptized again...and again.

Here are few more...

The doctrine of “once saved, always saved” teaches that it is not possible for a child of God to sin in such a way that he will be lost. Many people, who undoubtedly are very sincere and possess a desire to do what is right, find tremendous comfort in this doctrine. This doctrine, however, is not taught in the Bible. It is an erroneous doctrine that provides a false comfort and a deceitful feeling of security.

Ok I think I see what your saying here your talking about a difference between eternal security in salvation for a true born again believer and that of one who conintues to live in sin after being saved?

The thing is my friend the scriptures say
Romans 8:38-39




38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

you seeit is his love that keeps us nothing else, it is not about how little we sin or how much we do, it isn't about how well we keep the faith and keep the Christian walk as we all stumble and fall in some way or another it has is and always will be about his love and how deep how wide how rich and beautiful it is. osas if anything is the doctrine of love and why those who rest in it more than anything know this love and rest in it they find comfort in it because they know they are sinners they do not deny it they will not pretend to be the shiny glossy Christian they are rugged broken and wounded they have fallen over and over again to the point they sometimes wonder why God bothers with them.

But it is exactly these type of people he has his soft spot for, the sinners who dare not even look up to speak to him the broken and wounded who stumble and fall in their walk and can only beg for forgiveness in their tears when all they see is a filthy dirty sinner and can only imagine his face full of anger and wrath he sees his child and has nothing but a warm smile on his face.

I understand that osas seems like an excuse to live a life to sin but you have to look at things through more than one set of eyes or else all you will see is your own perspective, osas relies on his love and grace it doesn't lead people to hell it leads people to the heart of God

 

[Carl Emerson]

I am not an 'anythingist'

We are told not to steal words from one another so I read nothing but scripture devotionally for over 5 years.

That fact that I came to similar conclusions to some dude from wayback is irrelevant.

Love Jesus, Love the bible, read it long term with an open mind, hand your questions upstairs and wait for answers from Him.

 

[amigo de christo]

If they truly rely on works, then they never truly relied completely by faith in the work of Christ.

cc @Mink57

Many follow another jesus , another gospel and another Spirit . That is one place no one wants to be .
So i leave us with my same advice . OPEN BIBLE , LEARN THAT JESUS , OPEN BIBLE LEARN what those apostels taught ,
OPEN BIBLE and love THE TRUTH . SEE what JESUS we truly follow . Is it the one created by men
OR is it the ONE WHO CREATED MAN . OPEN BIBLE , LOVE BIBLE TRUTH , EMBRACE BIBLE TRUTH
and Be hearers and doers of all things both JESUS and those apostels would teach . IF we omit
things , well that is not a good sign at all . FOR MANY Do just that . THEY can KEEP and EMBRACE SOME OF HIS SAYINGS
but will quickly omit the sayings that GET IN THE WAY of THEIR HEARTS DESIRE .
AS FOR A LAMB , HIS HEARTS DESIRES IS JESUS , IT IS HIS SAYINGS , IT IS THE TRUTH , FOR GOD has placed
THAT KIND OF LOVE upon the heart of a lamb . AS i have said and do so often say , WE BETTER KNOW what JESUS WE TRULY DO FOLLOW
For no other jesus can save , no other gospel can save .

 

[Behold]

I understand that osas seems like an excuse

It can be helpful to say this to confused Legalists instead...."once born again, always born again".., as that is really the essence of Eternal Security.
And the essence of Eternal Security is the fact that Eternal Life is Jesus Himself. So, if a person has Jesus in them, they are born again, and have eternal life, which IS : Eternal Security......which is...>"Christ IN YOU the Hope of Glory".