What if you lose your faith?

[Carl Emerson]

Not at all - I would just appreciate some response to the verse, there is a similar verse in Ezekiel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not at all - I would just appreciate some response to the verse, there is a similar verse in Ezekiel.

The Jews failed....right.


Amos 7:1-10
This is what the Lord God showed me, and behold, He was forming a swarm of locusts when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king’s mowing. And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said,

“Lord God, please pardon! How can Jacob stand? For he is small.”
The Lord relented of this. “It shall not be,” said the Lord.

So the Lord God showed me, and behold, the Lord God was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farmland. Then I said, “Lord God, please stop! How can Jacob stand? For he is small.”

The Lord relented of this. “This too shall not be,” said the Lord God.

So He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall with a plumb line in His hand. And the Lord said to me, “What do you see, Amos?” And I said, “A plumb line.” Then the Lord said,

“Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will not spare them any longer. The high places of Isaac will become deserted, and the sanctuaries of Israel will be in ruins. Then I will rise up against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.”

Then Amaziah, the priest of Bethel, sent word to Jeroboam king of Israel, saying, “Amos has conspired against you in the midst of the house of Israel; the land is unable to endure all his words.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Jews failed....right.

Well according to Paul they are not beyond receiving salvation. Some of the most prominent Christians are Jewish.

How does your point relate to the verse Jer 32:40 which spoke of the New Covenant to come ???

 

[Brakelite]

Here's Jesus speaking to His children in the church of Ephesus...
KJV Revelation 2:2-7
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

These are definitely born again Spirit filled Christians...
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Wow, and some of them paid the ultimate price, but...

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Remove their light. That's devastating, as Jesus Himself is their light that they may not walk in darkness. No protection. No light. Foundering in darkness and lost.

But there's still hope... Repentance.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 

[farouk]

If one truly loses faith, then one never had it. True, saving faith continues. "He that that begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

 

[Carl Emerson]

Here's Jesus speaking to His children in the church of Ephesus...
KJV Revelation 2:2-7
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

These are definitely born again Spirit filled Christians...
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Wow, and some of them paid the ultimate price, but...

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Remove their light. That's devastating, as Jesus Himself is their light that they may not walk in darkness. No protection. No light. Foundering in darkness and lost.

But there's still hope... Repentance.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Yes... great passage - I guess I see the letter being received by the leaders of the church and they were in danger of losing their authority to govern. Big shake up needed - and as an aside I believe returning to first love and the deeds first done is returning to the culture recorded in Acts of the early church functioning with a culture of Love.

Acts 4:
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each to the extent that any had need.

 

[Brakelite]

Yes... great passage - I guess I see the letter being received by the leaders of the church and they were in danger of losing their authority to govern. Big shake up needed - and as an aside I believe returning to first love and the deeds first done is returning to the culture recorded in Acts of the early church functioning with a culture of Love.

Acts 4:
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each to the extent that any had need.

To get back to that primitive godliness and death to self will take a revolution. Not the kind of revolution a society expects or wants against this worlds rulers, but against the one ruling the heart of the individual Christian. We need to decide who is Lord.

 

[Cross8527]

Here is how I see it. We were purchased by the sacrifice and blood of Christ that is in scripture now since we were bought by Christ he therefore holds the deed to our salvation, now please explain to me how we can lose what we do not own? Are to we to become theives somehow and snatch the deed from his hands then lose it? that is not in scripture anywhere. So if we were bought with a price how can we who no longer own ourselves who are slaves to Christ who no longer hold the deed to our salvation lose it? I have yet to have anyone who believes we can lose it be able to answer this because if i had to guess they can't.

 

[mailmandan]

If one truly loses faith, then one never had it. True, saving faith continues. "He that that begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[farouk]

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

@mailmandan I think Philippians 1.6 is apt, for the question also....

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is how I see it. We were purchased by the sacrifice and blood of Christ that is in scripture now since we were bought by Christ he therefore holds the deed to our salvation, now please explain to me how we can lose what we do not own? Are to we to become theives somehow and snatch the deed from his hands then lose it? that is not in scripture anywhere. So if we were bought with a price how can we who no longer own ourselves who are slaves to Christ who no longer hold the deed to our salvation lose it? I have yet to have anyone who believes we can lose it be able to answer this because if i had to guess they can't.

Case in point....sweet lady does not want to see anyone go to hell. Everybody that believes in Christ goes to heaven. Thinking with the heart, not the worse thing!

What we see here on earth is a battle between good and evil. Drugs being pushed on our kids and grand kids. People being shot in their front yards...kids too. The guy behind the trigger and the guy giving drugs to your kids can believe in Christ....baptized and the whole bit.

Once saved always saved is not only heretical, but it leads people to hell, because it makes them believe they can get away with anything. It just does not make any sense. And I know there are people that believe if it makes no sense, that is the qualifying factor of being of God. A religion of non-sense.

There is a battle going on, here on earth, a battle between good and evil....heaven full of evildoers....are we going to have a battle between good and evil in heaven?

 

[Taken]

-
Here are some thoughts, regarding "Losing your Faith"

Here is the reality... > Your Faith does not save you.
God SAVED you >through your Faith. = ONCE.... Proof = BORN AGAIN.
Big difference.
Vital Distinction.

So, falling away from it (FAITH) after you are SAVED, basically does nothing but allow others to esteem you as a backslider.

Disagree.
A save-ED person CAN NOT FALL FROM FAITH.
~ A sav-ED person is a person whose BODY has DIED in Belief.
~ DEAD body’s do NOT fall from faith.

 

[Taken]

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Agree.
Believers can hang with this group, and BELIEVE.
Believers can hang with another group, and then NOT BELIEVE.
They are called having FALLEN FROM FAITH.

@Behold is not delineating the difference between, An un-Converted Believer and A Converted Believer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Reader....There is no verse in the NT that says....> you fell out of Christ".

The phrase is 'fall from grace', and it means to fall away from the grace of Christ:

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4​

And that is because you can't.

Make whatever OSAS argument you want out of it, but as we can see in the verse above Paul said the Galatians have been severed from Christ and fallen away from grace. So don't change Biblical facts to suit your predetermined theological outcome. Paul said they fell away from Christ. You'll have to come up with another OSAS argument in order to preserve what we can see is so plainly written in the Bible. But as it is now, your present OSAS teaching directly contradicts what Paul said about the Galatians.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Proof = BORN AGAIN.

Okay...then how do I know I'm born again? Since believing, and living for God aren't proof, what is? Your theology is a joke.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"As Jesus is so are the born again in this world".... right now. = "seated in heavenly placed, IN CHRIST....right now".

No, assuming you are born again, you are right here on planet earth. "With Him" means you are there vicariously through Christ, not in person. He's your advocate, your representative before the Father in heaven. That is how you are there.

 

[Cross8527]

Case in point....sweet lady does not want to see anyone go to hell. Everybody that believes in Christ goes to heaven. Thinking with the heart, not the worse thing!

What we see here on earth is a battle between good and evil. Drugs being pushed on our kids and grand kids. People being shot in their front yards...kids too. The guy behind the trigger and the guy giving drugs to your kids can believe in Christ....baptized and the whole bit.

Once saved always saved is not only heretical, but it leads people to hell, because it makes them believe they can get away with anything. It just does not make any sense. And I know there are people that believe if it makes no sense, that is the qualifying factor of being of God. A religion of non-sense.

There is a battle going on, here on earth, a battle between good and evil....heaven full of evildoers....are we going to have a battle between good and evil in heaven?

the battle between good and evil between the war of lost and the saved has been going on since the fall of man that does not change what Christ did and how it affects us in the kingdom. The scriptures say we were bought with a price can you explain to me how we can lose what we do not own? better yet if we are born again that is a birth a new life how do you unbirth yourself?

 

[Grailhunter]

the battle between good and evil between the war of lost and the saved has been going on since the fall of man that does not change what Christ did and how it affects us in the kingdom. The scriptures say we were bought with a price can you explain to me how we can lose what we do not own? better yet if we are born again that is a birth a new life how do you unbirth yourself?

As I said, I understand your line of thinking. It is just wrong. Heaven will not be full of evildoers. The scriptures are very clear on this point.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We as BIBLE believers are to understand that in Eternity, in Heaven, the only Sin that God evaluates, to evaluate you, is the unpardonable sin of Christ Rejection.
This is the unpardonable sin., and if you die a Christ Rejector, then you prevent Christ on the Cross from taking your sin,.....and you die "un-pardoned".
= the un-pardonable....sin.
= Christ Rejection.
This is actually choosing to go to Hell.
Bad choice.

(Here's where the inconsistencies begin, folks.)

Now you're saying unbelief will remove you from the grace of Christ! Make up your mind!

Let's set you straight on this right now. Read Matthew 25:31-46 and you will see that saved believers and unbelievers alike will be examined for deeds consistent with faith in Jesus. Those deeds don't make your righteous and eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. They are the evidence that you have faith in God. Evidence that Jesus uses to separate the righteous from the unrighteous. He doesn't have to do that, for he already knows who are his, but he says he's going to do it that way.

Paul and James both say that it is not the faith that does nothing that makes a person born again (justified). It is faith that finds it's expression in love, the summary of obedience to God, that causes you to receive the Holy Spirit and thus born again (Galatians 5:6). The faith that saves is the faith that will lead you into deeds of righteousness. The absence of those deeds shows you are not born again, and so you will go to the left and into the fire, not to the right and into the kingdom at the return of Christ.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

-
Here are some thoughts, regarding "Losing your Faith"

Here is the reality... > Your Faith does not save you.
God SAVED you >through your Faith. = ONCE.... Proof = BORN AGAIN.
Big difference.
Vital Distinction.

So, falling away from it after you are SAVED, basically does nothing but allow others to esteem you as a backslider.
God doesn't because God does not count sin against a SON of God, as He's already counted them all against His "only Begotten" for you.
This "backslider" is a SON of GOD who is off the main path but they are not "LOST" , as they were previously found by Jesus's Blood and redeemed, which is the reason they are SAVED at all.

There are a lot of Christian's who are no where near the path of Light, yet they are all Children of the Light., by being "born again" into the Spirit of God.
Reader....There is no verse in the NT that says....> you fell out of Christ".
And that is because you can't.
You are "bone of Jesus Christ's bones, and flesh of Jesus Christ's flesh".
"ONE with God"...>"In Christ". A "new Creation".
"As Jesus is so are the born again in this world".... right now. = "seated in heavenly placed, IN CHRIST....right now".

On the Day God saved you, He knew all about what you would do wrong and right, later.
So, if you have a faith issue, God knew you would, and yet, He saved you anyway.
Why? Because once He does, then Jesus becomes the Author and FINISHER of your Faith, an God who started Salvation in you, will be faithful to complete it.
Hebrews 12:2. and Philippians 1:6

We as BIBLE believers are to understand that in Eternity, in Heaven, the only Sin that God evaluates, to evaluate you, is the unpardonable sin of Christ Rejection.
This is the unpardonable sin., and if you die a Christ Rejector, then you prevent Christ on the Cross from taking your sin,.....and you die "un-pardoned".
= the un-pardonable....sin.
= Christ Rejection.
This is actually choosing to go to Hell.
Bad choice.
See.....Its only a Christ Rejector......its only THIS sin, that is alone dealt with In Heaven, in Revelation 20:11. Great White Throne.
Believers only meet God as FATHER and never as Judge, and we meet Christ because we Trusted Him on EARTH But if you didn't, and die then you dont meet Christ as your Savior, you only meet the JUDGE who Sent Jesus here, and you Rejected Him. And now God will reject YOU..
= Hell .... = THE LAKE OF FIRE . "this is the 2nd Death".

So, if you are not saved, and you are reading this... please do not reject Christ and meet God as your Judge.
Please don't do that.
Receive Jesus, Trust in Jesus..... kneel at the Cross in your heart and receive the LOVE of God.... End up happy in Heaven, and eternally so.

Down here, on earth, a believer's bad behavior is dealt with by.= "reaping and sowing".
And God will also correct a born again believer for flesh issues, .. Hebrews 12:6.
The born again meet God as their Father.
The unsaved, meet God as their Judge.
On earth, all meet "sowing and reaping" for sin or "works of the flesh"..., so, be sure your deeds are not the type that are going to harvest a season of pain in your life.

People want to judge God, and the bible, based on their opinion.
(self righteousness)
But God's ways are higher than ours, as in as high as Heaven is from the earth, is how differently God's thinks and behaves, as compared to how we would try to do the same.
WE, as humans, can't even grasp that a holy God would come to earth and die for the UNGODLY....Yet He DID.
Jesus looked down from the cross into the hate filled eyes of those who wanted him up there and LOVED THEM and said..."Father forgive them".

Self Righteous believers can't stand the fact that God's Grace continues to be the same, unchanging for people who are born again,, but who don't live a holy life.
What they want to think about them, is that they deserve hell, or that they have lost their salvation. That is how the self righteous would have it for them.
Thats how they feel.... and that is how they sound on Forums like this one.
That's is their carnal flesh-mind. That is how it reacts against the Grace of God, at times.
The more of a legalist you are, the more you will have these types of feelings and beliefs.
Did you want to cast the first stone? ??

Parents dont love their children because they are bad or good, they love them because they are their Children, and that is God's love. That is God's love for us, and His love is everlasting and UNCONDITIONAL.
We dont earn it. We RECEIVE IT. Salvation is a GIFT.
They who are cold to God and off the walk of faith, are still always His Blood bought Children, and He does not love them less because they are horrible people.
On the day He saved them God knew they would turn out to be rotten stinking Christians.
But Christians they are, and to HIM they belong, as "new BIRTH", and its the Blood Atonement that decided this for them on the day they gave their Faith in Christ to God.

ALL sin is pardoned on the CROSS and offered as : SALVATION.
In fact, that God does not charge you for yours, as Christ has already died for them ALL = Romans 4:8.
If you reader, have not studied this verse deeply, then you need to study it.
And you need to study this one also..... Hebrews 13:9.
AS if you don't follow that one, early in your born again "babe in Christ" experience, then you'll potentially end up as a devout Legalist on a forum like this one at some point teaching Galatians 1:8.
Many of these are here today

So, again....about "losing Faith"....
"whatever is not of faith (losing faith for example) is sin"
=""where SIN Abounds (in the LIFE OF A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN), .. GRACE more abounds".
"God who began your salvation in you, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to COMPLETE it".
Philippians 1:6
"Jesus is the author and FINISHER of your FAITH"
Hebrews 12:2
In other words, you can't out-sin God's Grace.
Many try it, but it can't be done.
You can only "fall away" from it, and become what Paul is describing in Galatians.
""are you so FOOLISH< (that you use to Trust Christ to keep you saved) , but now you are gone BACK into the (flesh) worrying about the 10 commandments, and the law, and lifestyle, and holding unto your faith, trying to keep yourself saved..
You are "" FALLEN...from GRACE."
This is the Legalist.

So, understand that "holding onto your faith", is not principally different than keeping the 10 commandments, regarding its inability to save you or keep you saved.

A person says......"but my faith is what saved me".
And the NT says....NO = God saved you, through your faith".
And Jesus said of our Salvation while ON the Cross, "it if finished".

A believer says.... "ummm, well, ok, faith does not save me, it's God through the Blood of Jesus who SAVED me.....I see, BUT....what if i fall out of faith". ?????
What if you do?
What if you don't.
This does not stipulate or control or condemn the blood bought redemption that has happened to you.
= "New Birth".
= "New Creation IN CHRIST".
Faith does not do this, it only allows GOD TO DO IT TO YOU, FOR YOU, through your Faith.
HE DID iT FOR YOU.
ITS DONE. .... if you are born again.

So, It really does come down to one realization.
Its not what you trusted to SAVE YOU< but its what you are trusting to KEEP YOU SAVED.....is the issue that is deceiving the Legalist.
AS right here is where a legalist "falls from Grace", and into "self saving."

Remember...Salvation, is an eternal blood bought contract between the Blood of Jesus and your initial Faith, that results in you going to heaven to be with the family of GOD : only based on Jesus on THE CROSS.

this is just bad theology.