They never truly believed, evidently.
"He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
"He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).
Where does it say that one can behave as he wants to and still be saved?
This is what we're discussing.
We are assured our salvation as long as we abide in Christ.
John 15:6
John 15 is about fruitfulness; abiding in the vine.
John 10:28-30:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one."
Farouk,
How many times does a person have to post the parable of the sower?
Jesus Himself says that some BELIEVE FOR A WHILE , but then they turn away due to tribulation.
What about the Prodigal Son?
He believed, then he left, then he came back.
Jesus Himself said...HE HAS COME TO LIFE AGAIN...
AGAIN means the son had life, lost it, and now has it again.
And He who began a good work in us will complete it if we allow Him to.
Do we lose our free will once we become born again?
Or do we keep it?
If we keep it, then we can change our minds and leave God.
In the parable of the sower, there were those who had 'no root' in them. This is not permanent, saving faith.
The seed needs to fall in good ground.
This is correct of course.
No one can pluck you our of the hand of God.
I suppose you know that a Christian cannot be possessed, for instance.
However, what if I WANT to walk away from God?
Am I not allowed to?
The Lost Sheep left the fold.
Sometimes God finds them and they come back...
sometimes they don't.
We retain our free will.
Also, I'd really like to understand WHY this is such an issue.
If you're a saved person, why does it bother you that some persons might decide to abandon God?
Are you fearful that it might happen to you?
What is the reason for this strong opposition to something clearly biblical?
But JESUS said they believed FOR A WHILE.
If a person believes he is saved at that moment.
Could you answer my last post just before this and then I have to leave for a while...
Faith is faith Farouk.
If a person has faith in God they are saved.
Scripture has to be twisted and concepts have to be ignored in order for OSAS to work.
Paul even said he had to endure till the end lest even he be lost.
1 Corinthians 9:27
26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
We are running a race.
A race does not last an instant.
Our justification is an instant...
our sanctification lasts a lifetime.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Do you cherry pick bare handed? It is not a matter of if a Christian can go to hell, it is a matter how many ways a Christian can find themselves in the blazes of hell. The scriptures do not seem to tell you that Christians can be judged to hell....they tell you that directly in scriptures and describe it in parables. Christ did not use drums or smoke signals....does that disqualify His word? How many ways do you people need to be told.
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
These scriptures tell you directly what sins will prevent you from going to heaven and the last one means you are headed for the barbecue....so pack the barbecue sauce.
Then Christ our God and Savior came up with stories for the slow of wit.....parables of the sheep and goats and the Good Samaritan in which He Himself illustrated the fact if you do not do Good Deed and help the needy, you are going to hell. For those that have reading comprehension issues....He could have used crayons....
OSAS a religion that primary effort is to prove the Bible wrong and work against the examples and Words of Christ. God have mercy on their souls? I do not think so, they deserve what they get.
@GodsGrace might pray for your souls....so you might treat her kindly.
Last edited:
Which verses?
We'll discuss later if you want to.
It's about the sheep.
HIS sheep.
We have to belong to the fold...
but give me some verses you believe state we have security NO MATTER WHAT.
Paul in the verse quoted is talking about his service, not his eternal salvation. One can lose one's usefulness in service, but the verses in John 10 about nothing being able to pluck the believer from the Father's and the Lord Jesus' hand still apply....
Romans 8.38-39 are very assuring to the believer, as is John's First Epistle.
Paul is speaking about a race.
He tells the Christians to run to win. verse 24
All athletes are trained, just as a Christian is. verse 25
Athletes win a prize that will fade away,,,but we are running for a prize that is eternal. verse 25
We are RUNNING FOR THE PRIZE...it means we haven't achieved it yet.
Paul runs WITH PURPOSE in every step, as we should all be doing, running for God in our daily lives. verse 26
Paul disciplines himself so that, after teaching others, he HIMSELF will not be disqualified.
DISQUALIFIED FROM WHAT?
Paul is not trying to obtain his salvation, because that would be salvation by works, denied in Ephesians 2.8-9.
He is talking about usefulness in service, not about losing his salvation.
Just try answering my questions instead of going to a verse you THINK is saying what it is not.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
We are saved by God's grace. By His goodness and love for His creation.
It is not by works that we are saved.
But works is not a dirty word.
They are required by the believer in Jesus.
We are CREATED IN JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS.
Here are my questions again:
Why was Paul running?
What prize was he worried he might not get?
IOW, from WHAT would he be disqualified? From what prize?
BTW
Usefulness in service IS A WORK.
Nothing wrong about it.
This is what Jesus taught.
We all have a ministry of one sort or another.
Paul is talking about reward, not about losing his salvation.
Ephesians 2.10 shows that works follow faith; they do not produce salvation.
Maybe works allow you to keep your salvation?
Why would there be so much writing on works if they weren't important?
So the prize Paul is striving for is a reward?
2 Corinthians 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
I believe the reward at the end will be the crown of life.
James 1:12
12Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
We must be doers of the word, and not just listeners.
James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
James also tells his Christian brothers:
James 5:19...
19My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
If James states that one could stray from the truth, it must certainly be true.
- Status
