What if you lose your faith?

[BloodBought 1953]

You're not Jesus.
When we're told to emmulate Him, the above is not what is meant.

You REALLY need to read and understand the NT!
Try John 13:35

John 13:35? I Read it.....Thanks for the reminder — I already have that love for my True, fellow “ Disciples” Of Jesus.....it’s Automatic.....

I just don’t love Self- Righteous Religionists( snakes— hows That for being “loving”) Gospel Perverters( Accursed or Damned to Hell by God — hows That for “ loving” ) Leaven Spreaders like the ones That Ruined most of the Churches That Paul Started,( “Loving” Paul, said to kick them out of his Churches) and I don’t love Tares ( flat - out Deceiving Devils in the Churches) ...This gives me some things in common with Jesus....

I have a Natural Love for my Brothers in Christ ....those other guys? I wish no harm to any of them ....but “ the Children Of Light” have no business hanging around with or trying to “ Love” devils....

Your Snide remark about me “ Not” Being Jesus? Do you really believe that I think I am ? Hardly.Shame on you for that remark....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You REALLY need to read and understand the NT!


If “YOU” really Understood the NT , The First Thing you would do is change your name....When it comes to “ Grace”, which is what the New Testament is All about—- You are 100% Clueless...

 

[Johann]

Like a switch?
I really dislike argumentative posts .

This has nothing to do with soteriology, which is worthy of debate, so peace to you.

And I dislike not adhering to biblical terminology. What we read in the KJV and how we interpret the text by many sophistry, eisegesis, is a thorn in my side.

Like "how to activate the Holy Spirit"
Can you explain this?

J.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Then you can never go back to unbelief. Don't you understand the implication of your own argument!

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9​

So how does that line-up with this verse ? 1John 2:1......” I write these things with the hope that you will not sin....but if you “Do” Sin, we have an Intercessor to plead our case—- Jesus Christ the Righteous!”...

 

[Johann]

I agree, nobody can truly know if they're saved, so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope we make the grade..

I strongly disagree, since we know that we are saved.


1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 16:31

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 8:1

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 10:28-30
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Hebrews 6:18-20
so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Ephesians 1:6
Verse Concepts
to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.


Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Selah

J.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Amen to that.

To change the world, it is not enough to eliminate evil...
It's necessary to let the good enter.

@BloodBought 1953 likes songs...here's one:

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could've been any clearer
If they wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change
M. Jackson

My gosh! Comparing Scripture- Based Masterpiece Songs Of Faith with the musings of a Sick, Child- Molesting Pervert —- And in what is “ supposed” to be a “ Christian’ Forum....
Hitler wrote that Jesus was the illegitimate child of Mary and A Roman Soldier —- you must figure that it’s a shame that Adolf didn’t put “ his” Words of wisdom to music....

You are teaching a False and Perverted so- called “Gospel” Of “ Turning over a New Leaf” for Salvation—- trying to become more “ moral” as opposed to being “ Transformed” from the inside- out by the Power Of God ....welcome to the land of the “Accursed”.....want your Scripture? Read Galatians —- Key In on Chapter 1 , verse 8...... it’s you!

 

[Johann]

So how does that line-up with this verse ? 1John 2:1......” I write these things with the hope that you will not sin....but if you “Do” Sin, we have an Intercessor to plead our case—- Jesus Christ the Righteous!”...

And if any man sin] Or, have sinned (peccaverit): S. John is not telling the intending sinner that sin is a light matter; but the penitent sinner that sin is not irremediable.

In both sentences ‘sin’ is in the aorist, and implies a definite act, not an habitual state, of sin.


If any man sin, we have
The change from the indefinite third person, any man, to the first person, we have, is significant. By the we have, John assumes the possibility of sinful acts on the part of Christians, and of himself in common with them, and their common need of the intervention of the divine Advocate.

So Augustine: “He said, not 'ye have,' nor 'ye have me,' nor 'ye have Christ himself;' but he put Christ, not himself, and said 'we have,' and not 'ye have.'

He preferred to place himself in the number of sinners, so that he might have Christ for his advocate, rather than to put himself as the advocate instead of Christ, and to be found among the proud who are destined to condemnation.”


An advocate (παράκλητον)
See on Joh_14:16.
With the Father (πρὸς τὸν πατέρα)
See on with God, Joh_1:1. An active relation is indicated. On the terms the Father and my Father, see on Joh_4:21.
The righteous
Compare righteous, 1Jn_1:9. There is no article in the Greek. Jesus Christ righteous. See on 1Jn_1:9.
Vincent.

J.

 

[Johann]

My gosh! Comparing Scripture- Based Masterpiece Songs Of Faith with the musings of a Sick, Child- Molesting Pervert —- And in what is “ supposed” to be a “ Christian’ Forum....
Hitler wrote that Jesus was the illegitimate child of Mary and A Roman Soldier —- you must figure that it’s a shame that Adolf didn’t put “ his” Words of wisdom to music....

You are teaching a False and Perverted so- called “Gospel” Of “ Turning over a New Leaf” for Salvation—- trying to become more “ moral” as opposed to being “ Transformed” from the inside- out by the Power Of God ....welcome to the land of the “Accursed”.....want your Scripture? Read Galatians —- Key In on Chapter 1 , verse 8...... it’s you!

Really glad you are not my Judge, that prerogative is the right of Christ Jesus and you don't know what is in the heart of man and the Holy Spirit searches the hearts and reigns of men.
What is really problematic, is that you confess yourself to be in Christ and condemn your brother by using the scriptures.

J.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It works for everybody. The sure promises of God are for believing people, not for people who fall away in unbelief.

Sorry but God's got that covered also....”If we are Unfaithful , yet HE Remains Faithful” .....your God is too small.....it’s not called “ AMAZING” Grace for no Reason....your version of Grace is that Grace is Fine —- But Only If you don’t really need it...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Really glad you are not my Judge, that prerogative is the right of Christ Jesus and you don't know what is in the heart of man and the Holy Spirit searches the hearts and reigns of men.
What is really problematic, is that you confess yourself to be in Christ and condemn your brother by using the scriptures.

J.

Sorry, but Paul said that even though it was God's job to judge those OUTSIDE of the Church, it is OUR JOB to judge those who purport to be in the “ Body Of Christ” ( 1 Cor5:12) Jackson was a professed “Jehovah’s Witness” who do not believe in the Deity Of Christ.....He was merely a “ brother “ to the Angel, Michael—- That Damnable Lie is subject to Judgement by the True Church .....

 

[farouk]

Do you think there is any danger in believing and espousing this eternal security idea, no matter what.
??

I feel it's a dangerous belief and that it could spread because it seems so easy to just believe.

Jesus said to consider our discipleship:
Luke 14:27-30
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’


Jesus is saying not everyone will be able to finish.
I think this is an important message.

Romans 8 and John 10 seem strongly to show the believer's eternal security.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree, nobody can truly know if they're saved, so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope we make the grade..
All we know for sure is that Jesus-rejecters can NEVER make the grade and will go up the spout.
"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18)
They don't want God, so he certainly doesn't want them..

I agree with you.
I've studied with some Catholic monks in a sanctuary close to me...
I asked him one time if we could be sure of our salvation.
He answered:
As long as we are at the foot of the cross.

I think God knows if we're doing the best we can.
We do our best,
God does the rest.

But God will not be fooled, as some on this thread insinuate...
to the point of degrading those of us that are following in Jesus' teachings the best we can.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry, but Paul said that even though it was God's job to judge those OUTSIDE of the Church, it is OUR JOB to judge those who purport to be in the “ Body Of Christ” ( 1 Cor5:12) Jackson was a professed “Jehovah’s Witness” who do not believe in the Deity Of Christ.....He was merely a “ brother “ to the Angel, Michael—- That Damnable Lie is subject to Judgement by the True Church .....

Whoa.
Just fell on this.
I do believe judging persons is way beyond your paygrade.

We could judge the BEHAVIOR of a person...
NOT THEIR SALVATION and state of their soul/spirit.

That is for God alone.

 

[farouk]

I agree with you.
I've studied with some Catholic monks in a sanctuary close to me...
I asked him one time if we could be sure of our salvation.
He answered:
As long as we are at the foot of the cross.

I think God knows if we're doing the best we can.
We do our best,
God does the rest.

But God will not be fooled, as some on this thread insinuate...
to the point of degrading those of us that are following in Jesus' teachings the best we can.

Being all of grace (Ephesians 2.8-9) is not simply a matter of following Christ's teaching the best we can...

John's First Epistle has material which is strongly about the believer's assurance.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Old Covenant was of The Law.....It was great ! It was perfect ! However , God “ Found fault “ in it ! ....why? ....because all it could do in the end was “ Point Out” sin.....it was “ weak and useless” in the sense that it had “NO *POWER* TO SAVE!” Paul said that the Law was Good, ONLY when people knew how to use it....

The New Covenant shows us how to properly use That Old Testament Law ....it was given to show us that Nobody can keep it 24/7 and therefore we need a Savior.....Jesus is that Savior , of course, ....Trusting HIM and Showing That Trust, or Faith in Him is Done by Believing His Gospel Of Grace Found in 1 Cor15:1-4..... It was the “ Mystery” , first revealed to Paul personally and it was then delivered to mankind....As I said, the Law had “ No Power to Save” .....the “ POWER” is in the Gospel—- Rest in THAT—- the Crux Of The New Covenant and God has promised to Save you “ To the UTTERMOST! Now, *THAT* is POWER! Best get you Some Of that—-REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross !

I agree with some of what you've written above.

Some comments:

Persons in the OT were not saved by works...they were saved by faith, just like we are.

The New Covenant was NOT to show us that the law could not be kept, as those who think as you do always state.
It certainly does show us that the law cannot be kept in its entirety, man is just too fallen.

The power is in THE HOLY SPIRIT. The gospel without the Holy Spirit is also of no use.
Only through Him, the power of God, can we even entertain the idea of being "good".

Jesus came to set up His Kingdom on earth.
You should stop thinking that the work is finished.
Jesus said IT IS FINISHED...but what was finished?

It is now up to us, His disciples, to further His Kingdom here, as He wished that we do.

As to the difference between the OC and the NC, it's very simple.
Before the Holy Spirit was with us...
Now He dwells within us.
We are given the power to keep God's commandments by receiving the Holy Spirit.

The commandments are not abolished:
Matthew 5:17-20
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus fulfills the law. He completes it. He has paid for it.
But it is not abolished.

1 John 5:3-4
3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Our faith defeats this world. We are called to defeat this world.
And if we are children of God, we also love His children...1 John 5:1
Your brethren are His children.
Even those you hate because they're too religious for you.

 

[GodsGrace]

John 13:35? I Read it.....Thanks for the reminder — I already have that love for my True, fellow “ Disciples” Of Jesus.....it’s Automatic.....

I just don’t love Self- Righteous Religionists( snakes— hows That for being “loving”) Gospel Perverters( Accursed or Damned to Hell by God — hows That for “ loving” ) Leaven Spreaders like the ones That Ruined most of the Churches That Paul Started,( “Loving” Paul, said to kick them out of his Churches) and I don’t love Tares ( flat - out Deceiving Devils in the Churches) ...This gives me some things in common with Jesus....

I have a Natural Love for my Brothers in Christ ....those other guys? I wish no harm to any of them ....but “ the Children Of Light” have no business hanging around with or trying to “ Love” devils....

Your Snide remark about me “ Not” Being Jesus? Do you really believe that I think I am ? Hardly.Shame on you for that remark....

As I've said several times now...you're called to love everyone because you should understand that it's the evil one that tries to separate us.
Discussing is good, but hating is not.

My saying you're not Jesus was not meant to be snide.
HE could do what needed to be done.
YOU just have to emulate the goodness in Him.
This is what wins persons over...the love they see in you.

 

[GodsGrace]

And I dislike not adhering to biblical terminology. What we read in the KJV and how we interpret the text by many sophistry, eisegesis, is a thorn in my side.

Like "how to activate the Holy Spirit"
Can you explain this?

J.

Sure I can explain it.

As to unbiblical terms...how else are we to speak?
Trinity isn't in the bible.
Arianism isn't in the bible.
Hypostatic...etc.
But they're terms we use to understand each other and they ARE found in the NT as concepts.

The Holy Spirit can be turned off, like a switch.
When He tells us to do something and we don't do it, we're turning Him off.

Also, we receive grace from God as we use it in obeying the Holy Spirit when He speaks to us.
The more grace we use, the more grace God gives to us as is needed.

2 Corinthians 9:8 comes to mind
6Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
9as it is written,
“HE SCATTERED ABROAD, HE GAVE TO THE POOR,
HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ENDURES FOREVER.”
10Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;


Activating the Holy Spirit just means letting Him do His job...
allowing Him to do His job.

 

[farouk]

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are deeply present in Scripture; end of Matthew 28; John's Gospel and John's First Epistle passim; Romans 8......

 

[GodsGrace]

My gosh! Comparing Scripture- Based Masterpiece Songs Of Faith with the musings of a Sick, Child- Molesting Pervert —- And in what is “ supposed” to be a “ Christian’ Forum....
Hitler wrote that Jesus was the illegitimate child of Mary and A Roman Soldier —- you must figure that it’s a shame that Adolf didn’t put “ his” Words of wisdom to music....

You are teaching a False and Perverted so- called “Gospel” Of “ Turning over a New Leaf” for Salvation—- trying to become more “ moral” as opposed to being “ Transformed” from the inside- out by the Power Of God ....welcome to the land of the “Accursed”.....want your Scripture? Read Galatians —- Key In on Chapter 1 , verse 8...... it’s you!

We are to turn over a new leaf.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

1 Thessalonians 4:3a
3For this is the will of God, your sanctification;

As for not interpreting the NT correctly....this might help:

1 Timothy 2:20-21 Paul teaches...
20Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 8 and John 10 seem strongly to show the believer's eternal security.

I don't see it.
How do you reconcile your belief with this verse in Romans?

Romans 11:20-21
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.


Belief is necessary for salvation.
If someone stops believing and abandons God...how could he possibly be saved?