What if you lose your faith?

[Ferris Bueller]

No my friend. The believers are the “we” in the passage. Otherwise the writer would have clear in saying if “they” the unbelievers sin willfully…

Or, if we “stop believing and sin willfully”…

It’s not a logical proposition @Ferris Bueller

Yes, they are believers in the sense that they may have once been saved. The point you're not getting is they had to go back to unbelief in order to go back to sinning willfully, habitually, as mailmandan describes 'willfully' in his post. The description of willfully sinning is, Biblically, the description of an unbeliever who is not born again, not a born again believer. That's why I say that person is an unbeliever. Whether he always was or went back to being one is a secondary issue. Believing born again people will never be subject to the wrath of God described in the passage. The 'we' in the passage have to either never been born again, or ceased to be born again by going back to unbelief. But either way, the simple fact these people will be subject to the fiery wrath of God shows us they are in unbelief, not belief. If they were in belief the blood of Christ would protect them from the wrath of God...and they would not be living in willful, habitual sin in the first place for it to even matter.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual

Adding to scripture.

Nothing but serpent tactics. You have excelled in the craft @mailmandan

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”” (Genesis 3:1)

which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately

Which the scripture says nothing of the sort. Just more of your additions to scripture.

It sad that @Ferris Bueller is on board with you…

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The point you're not getting is they had to go back to unbelief in order to go back to sinning willfully

No man.

Stop playing the word games.

The scripture is clear. You insist on bringing your assumptions into them.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm pretty sure mailmandan understands that a man is justified both way, by faith and by works. And that he understands that James' justification by works does not mean works earn salvation, but rather works validate one's faith as being genuine, the faith itself being that which solicits the free gift of righteousness all by itself.

Yes, we are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:21,24)

 

[mailmandan]

Adding to scripture.

Nothing but serpent tactics. You have excelled in the craft @mailmandan

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”” (Genesis 3:1)

Which the scripture says nothing of the sort. Just more of your additions to scripture.

It sad that @Ferris Bueller is on board with you…

Properly interpreting scripture is not adding to scripture and those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Yes, we are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works (Romans 4:2-6) a

At the time you believed! Including the sins up to that point.

You are not justified in continued future sin. Denying this fact creates problems with the warning scriptures that you must pervert to keep your falsehood alive.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

King Saul still believed in God and look what happened to him.

I started to respond to this then I realized you said King Saul, not King Solomon.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are not justified in continued future sin.

You are as long as you continue to believe. Going back to your old life of habitual, willful sins shows you are not continuing to believe, or you never really believed to begin with. That person will not pass safely through the coming judgment of fire. Since they do not believe in Christ they do not have his protection from the wrath of God. Only believing people have the ministry of Christ applied to their lives, continually atoning for their sin as they grow up and mature into the image and stature of Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Properly interpreting scripture is not adding to scripture and those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

What are you suffering from:

“He that committeth sin is of the devil” (1 John 3:8)

The only suffering I am experiencing is the kind described here:

“he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin” (1 Peter 4:1)

You love using the word “habitual”.

Trying figuring out what “cease” means!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You are not justified in continued future sin.

You are as long as you continue to believe.

My God man! Have you lost your mind?!

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived…” (1 Corinthians 6:9)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My God man! Have you lost your mind?!

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived…” (1 Corinthians 6:9)

Sinning in the growing pains of growing up into the knowledge and stature and image of Christ does not mean you are unrighteous. Living in sin willfully and without thought, just like you did before any supposed conversion by the Spirit occurred does.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin” (1 Peter 4:1)

I used to have a problem with fits of rage. Now I don't. Not because I was not born again then, but am now, but because as a bona fide son of God the suffering of my Father's chastisement has caused that sin to cease in me. The fact that it ceased shows that I belong to God as a child of God. If I was still living in my sin just like every other unsaved, unconverted sinner I would be showing myself to be just that - an unsaved, unconverted sinner, not a converted, born again child of God. Maturity is a process. If it wasn't there would be no need for the promise of God's loving chastisement when his sons and daughters sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Sinning in the growing pains of growing up into the knowledge and stature and image of Christ does not mean you are unrighteous

It means Christ hasn’t been formed in you yet dear friend:

“My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you” (Galatians 4:19)

The process is in the old man to bring unto the new saved sinless man.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It means Christ hasn’t been formed in you yet dear friend:

“My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you” (Galatians 4:19)

The process is in the old man to bring unto the new saved sinless man.

Exactly. The outer man is being conformed to what the inner man has been transformed to be. Being conformed outwardly to the righteousness you have received inwardly is a process. A process reserved exclusively for those who belong to God as sons and daughters already. Sinlessness is not the sign of an adopted son of God. Progression out of sin is.

"8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure" 2 Peter 1:8​

 

[GEN2REV]

How many times are you not going to read what I post? ↑↑↑

Where is obedience in your recipe?

Obedience demonstrates our faith and trust in God.

Without obedience, there can be no works or outward proof of faith.

You are still pushing hard for a recipe for salvation that involves nothing on the part of the Christian.

Once again, that's just not Biblical.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Where is obedience in your recipe?

Obedience does not secure the righteousness that comes from God. We are made righteous (justified) solely on the basis of our faith in God's promise of forgiveness and cleansing through Jesus Christ. Obedience comes into the picture at the judgment. At that time Jesus opens the books and we are judged according to what we have done. And not because our works earn us salvation as a debt owed to us in exchange for that obedience. But because works are the evidence that you have faith in God's forgiveness, and so are cleansed and fit to enter into the eternal kingdom of God at the end of the age.

 

[amigo de christo]

Obedience does not secure the righteousness that comes from God. We are made righteous (justified) solely on the basis of our faith in God's promise of forgiveness and cleansing through Jesus Christ. Obedience comes into the picture at the judgment. At that time Jesus opens the books and we are judged according to what we have done. And not because our works earn us salvation as a debt owed to us in exchange for that obedience. But because works are the evidence that you have faith in God's forgiveness, cleansed and fit to enter into the eternal kingdom of God at the end of the age.

 

[amigo de christo]

A lot of folks omit what follows THAT IF .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Obedience demonstrates our faith and trust in God.

Exactly. That's why our works are necessary to be saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment. Not to earn us protection and deliverance from the wrath of God, but to show that we have faith and trust in the forgiveness and cleansing of God that saves us from the wrath of God.

Without obedience, there can be no works or outward proof of faith.

Sure, but a better way to put it is 'without faith there can be no works of obedience'. And so it is in that way, only, that our works save us. They are the proof of a person's faith in the ministry and sacrifice of Jesus - the ministry and sacrifice that delivers a person from the wrath of God. And so it is only in that sense that works save us from the wrath of God. They indicate the presence of saving faith which does deliver one from the wrath of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are still pushing hard for a recipe for salvation that involves nothing on the part of the Christian.

Once again, that's just not Biblical.

What the person provides is his believing. And even that is only possible because of God's merciful and gracious intervention. Believing in God's forgiveness is the only thing that can secure a declaration of right standing with God and the receiving of the righteousness that comes from God, not from yourself. Your works can't do that. They can only serve as evidence that you have received the righteousness that comes from God and not from yourself.