What is God's "Plan" For You?

[ScottA]

It's better, I think, to identify the little flock first.
The little flock started from ... the gathering of the lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 10:6; Matthew 15:24
The first to be gathered were the 12 to an apostleship... minus 1 - Judas, who was latter replaced by Matthias. Acts 1:23-26
They made disciples, and on the day they were officially sealed - anointed, the number of them were 120. Acts 1:15
Added tto that number, were 3,000. Acts 2:41
Then 5,000. Acts 4:4
Then a great number. Acts 5:14
The number kept increasing. Acts 6:1 Even Jewish priests in large number were added. Acts 6:7
Then a zealous Pharisee was added. His name was changed to Paul. Acts 9:17-18
Then the first Gentiles were added, as Cornelius and his household were anointed. Acts 10:44-48

That number continued increasing, but when would it stop?
The anointed answer.
Romans 11:11-12; Romans 11:25-26
Notice that Paul refers to both Jews and Gentiles as all Israel. Romans 2:29; Romans 9:6; Galatians 3:29
They are the firstfruits, sealed by the holy spirit - a token of their inheritance. Romans 8:23; Revelation 14:1-5; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:14
John gives their number as 144,000. Revelation 7:4
That is the little flock.

The other sheep are identified by
Matthew

Matthew 25:31-46
The sheep are those of the other sheep. Christ's brothers are those of the little flock on earth at that time.​

Paul

Romans 8:19-25
The creation is those of the other sheep. The sons of God, are those of the little flock.​

and John
Revelation 7

The unnumbered great multitude are those of the other sheep. The sealed 144,000 are the little flock.​

I'm open to discussing this further, if that's okay with you.

This is not an accurate interpretation. The words are spirit--not literal numbers.

• The little flock, rather, is the house of Israel, that one nation that was not a nation.
• The unnumbered multitude are the gentiles according to the promise given to Abraham, that he would be a blessing to many nations.
• The 144,000 are the multitudes blessed by the good news of Christ, which began with the sons and tribes of Israel, and continued to the ends of the earth by the disciples of Christ. It is not 144,000, but means the divisions of the twelve--not defined according to men and their understanding, but as the sands of the sea, and according to God who is without measure...just as a day with God is also.

 

[The Disciple John]

Hmmm...it would appear that you have the wrong idea about salvation and belief in God and His Son Jesus Christ.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. John 1:12​

Do you not believe this?

Yes Scott. I certainly believe this.
I also believe this... Romans 8:20-23

20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for our adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

I believe you too believe this.
Which ones do you believe you belong to - the creation, or the children of God, and are both going to gain salvation?

 

[The Disciple John]

This is not an accurate interpretation. The words are spirit--not literal numbers.

• The little flock, rather, is the house of Israel, that one nation that was not a nation.
• The unnumbered multitude are the gentiles according to the promise given to Abraham, that he would be a blessing to many nations.
• The 144,000 are the multitudes blessed by the good news of Christ, which began with the sons and tribes of Israel, and continued to the ends of the earth by the disciples of Christ. It is not 144,000, but means the divisions of the twelve--not defined according to men and their understanding, but as the sands of the sea, and according to God who is without measure...just as a day with God is also.

Could you show me that from scripture please.
Perhaps you can also explain how it is Cornelius and his household, and subsequent Gentiles, are considered children of God, and heirs with Christ.

Just a reminder... Please use the scriptures with you comments. Thanks.

 

[ScottA]

Yes Scott. I certainly believe this.
I also believe this... Romans 8:20-23

20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for our adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

I believe you too believe this.
Which ones do you believe you belong to - the creation, or the children of God, and are both going to gain salvation?

Paul was only speaking by analogy, a form of reasoning, using all of creation to demonstrate our plight. He did not mean that these are two groups...but "as many as believe."

 

[ScottA]

Could you show me that from scripture please.
Perhaps you can also explain how it is Cornelius and his household, and subsequent Gentiles, are considered children of God, and heirs with Christ.

Just a reminder... Please use the scriptures with you comments. Thanks.

I can do that...but I will get right to the point: there are only two "folds" appointed, which Christ "must bring."

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16​

See also: Acts 26:23
​

...To whom He comes, "for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Romans 1:16

 

[The Disciple John]

Paul was only speaking by analogy, a form of reasoning, using all of creation to demonstrate our plight. He did not mean that these are two groups...but "as many as believe."

Your opinion. Yes?

 

[The Disciple John]

I can do that...but I will get right to the point: there are only two "folds" appointed, which Christ "must bring."

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16​

See also: Acts 26:23
​

...To whom He comes, "for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Romans 1:16

You are giving me your opinion. I hope you read the OP. There, I outlined how this works.
Anyone can say anything, but that only leads to you saying what you believe and someone else saying different. That's not discussing scripture.

The little flock is made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Cornelius and his household - Gentiles -were included. Paul extensively covered this topic, showing that they were neither Jew nor Greek, but the Israel of God.
Paul did not use an analogy in describing how God subjected the creation to futility, but on the basis of hope.

See what I mean?
You would need to understand the reason for the kingdom which is ruled by Jesus and the heirs to get this... and that takes covering scriptures.
I have the time. Do you?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

2 Peter 1
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.

I read it, again.
I still do not see anywhere it says "our inside nature is in the Spirit and becomes immortal taking on eternal LIFE"

I will read the last verse in a careful and precice way.
He [God] hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these [promises] you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.

It says, through these [promises] you may become partakers of the divine nature.
What promises?

The future ones made to them...
Luke 22:28-30; John 14:2; Galatians 3:29; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 4:8; Hebrews 12:28; James 2:5; 1 Peter 1:3-4; 1 John 3:2; Revelation 1:6; 1 Corinthians 15:53​

They may become partakers of the divine nature, then... when they put on immortality, and dwell in the heavens, with their new body - spirit.

You will have to read all scripture to find each part of salvation. It isn't found in one verse. What you added at the end is not the the correct interpretation. We have all these now through the power of Grace. You'll have to discern for yourself what is our nature. Hint, it is invisible too.

 

[The Disciple John]

@ScottA
Genesis 22:18 One group or two? Simple answer. Use scriptures if you like.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

???
I didn't disagree with that. Why did you post it.

Because you said: I'm sorry 1stCenturyLady. I really would have liked if we agreed on more things, but I can only agree with scripture.

 

[The Disciple John]

You will have to read all scripture to find each part of salvation. It isn't found in one verse. What you added at the end is not the the correct interpretation. We have all these now through the power of Grace. You'll have to discern for yourself what is our nature. Hint, it is invisible too.

I already know about our nature. Why do you keep assuming I don't know these things?
The divine nature is not what you assume though.
Peter clearly refered to the future inheritance.
I provided all the scriptures confirming this. Did you take time to read them? They were only 11.

 

[The Disciple John]

Because you said: I'm sorry 1stCenturyLady. I really would have liked if we agreed on more things, but I can only agree with scripture.

I explained what I disagreed with, and you seem to be avoiding responding to it. It had nothing to do with willful or not.
Why are you avoiding it?
Here it is again

The Greek word used in Hebrews 10:39 is ἀπώλειαν - translated apóleia: meaning destruction, loss

Hebrews 10:39
New International Version
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Spoiler: Scripture Comparison

New Living Translation
But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.
English Standard Version
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
Berean Study Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
Berean Literal Bible
But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul.
King James Bible
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
New King James Version
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
New American Standard Bible
But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.
NASB 1995
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
NASB 1977
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
Amplified Bible
But our way is not that of those who shrink back to destruction, but [we are] of those who believe [relying on God through faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah] and by this confident faith preserve the soul.
Christian Standard Bible
But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and are saved.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and obtain life.
American Standard Version
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But we are not of despondency which leads to destruction, but of the faith that imparts to us our soul.
Contemporary English Version
We are not like those people who turn back and get destroyed. We will keep on having faith until we are saved.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But we are not the children of withdrawing unto perdition, but of faith to the saving of the soul.
Good News Translation
We are not people who turn back and are lost. Instead, we have faith and are saved.
International Standard Version
Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Literal Standard Version
But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul.
New American Bible
We are not among those who draw back and perish, but among those who have faith and will possess life.
NET Bible
But we are not among those who shrink back and thus perish, but are among those who have faith and preserve their souls.
New Revised Standard Version
But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.
New Heart English Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.
Weymouth New Testament
But we are not people who shrink back and perish, but are among those who believe and gain possession of their souls.
World English Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.
Young's Literal Translation
and we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul.

The Greek word in verse 39 is destruction, so the scriptures say willful sinners will be destroyed.
Why do you suppose some translations changed the meaning to perdition - (in Christian theology) a state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unrepentant person passes after death?

That is what you teach evidently, but the scriptures do not agree.
Hell is not "forever for immortal beings such as Satan and his angels". Revelation 20:13-14
King James Bible
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

New King James Version
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire, after being emptied, and the Lake of Fire is the second death, so Hell does not last forever, but is subjected to a death state - gone for good.

Interestingly, the New King James Version has discarded the word Hell.
Do you know why that is?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I already know about our nature. Why do you keep assuming I don't know these things?
The divine nature is not what you assume though.
Peter clearly refered to the future inheritance.
I provided all the scriptures confirming this. Did you take time to read them? They were only 11.

You ask for scriptures to show you what is our nature. If you already know, then tell me what it is. Do you agree that it is our "old man" Romans 6:6 and that being our invisible spirit and conscience - our mind and heart?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I explained what I disagreed with, and you seem to be avoiding responding to it. It had nothing to do with willful or not.
Why are you avoiding it?
Here it is again

The Greek word used in Hebrews 10:39 is ἀπώλειαν - translated apóleia: meaning destruction, loss

Hebrews 10:39
New International Version
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Spoiler: Scripture Comparison

New Living Translation
But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.
English Standard Version
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
Berean Study Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
Berean Literal Bible
But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul.
King James Bible
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
New King James Version
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
New American Standard Bible
But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.
NASB 1995
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
NASB 1977
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
Amplified Bible
But our way is not that of those who shrink back to destruction, but [we are] of those who believe [relying on God through faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah] and by this confident faith preserve the soul.
Christian Standard Bible
But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and are saved.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and obtain life.
American Standard Version
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But we are not of despondency which leads to destruction, but of the faith that imparts to us our soul.
Contemporary English Version
We are not like those people who turn back and get destroyed. We will keep on having faith until we are saved.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But we are not the children of withdrawing unto perdition, but of faith to the saving of the soul.
Good News Translation
We are not people who turn back and are lost. Instead, we have faith and are saved.
International Standard Version
Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Literal Standard Version
But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul.
New American Bible
We are not among those who draw back and perish, but among those who have faith and will possess life.
NET Bible
But we are not among those who shrink back and thus perish, but are among those who have faith and preserve their souls.
New Revised Standard Version
But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.
New Heart English Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.
Weymouth New Testament
But we are not people who shrink back and perish, but are among those who believe and gain possession of their souls.
World English Bible
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.
Young's Literal Translation
and we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul.

The Greek word in verse 39 is destruction, so the scriptures say willful sinners will be destroyed.
Why do you suppose some translations changed the meaning to perdition - (in Christian theology) a state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unrepentant person passes after death?

That is what you teach evidently, but the scriptures do not agree.
Hell is not "forever for immortal beings such as Satan and his angels". Revelation 20:13-14
King James Bible
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

New King James Version
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire, after being emptied, and the Lake of Fire is the second death, so Hell does not last forever, but is subjected to a death state - gone for good.

Interestingly, the New King James Version has discarded the word Hell.
Do you know why that is?

perdition is destruction. But just in case you do not believe that can happen to a born again Christian, I've already supplied you scriptures on the fact, that yes they can willfully sin enough to go back into the state going to perdition - destruction - hell.

 

[The Disciple John]

You ask for scriptures to show you what is our nature. If you already know, then tell me what it is. Do you agree that it is our "old man" Romans 6:6 and that being our invisible spirit and conscience - our mind and heart?

I'll respond to your new questions after you respond to mine, and the post I three times posted. That's fair, isn't it?

 

[The Disciple John]

perdition is destruction. But just in case you do not believe that can happen to a born again Christian, I've already supplied you scriptures on the fact, that yes they can willfully sin enough to go back into the state going to perdition - destruction - hell.

Please show me that in writing.
The results in searching gave me this... perdition - (in Christian theology) a state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unrepentant person passes after death?
Eternal torment in Hell. Yes?
If that is destruction to you, you will need to provide references. I cannot just take your word.

So you agree Hell is not forever for immortal beings such as Satan and his angels?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Please show me that in writing.
The results in searching gave me this... perdition - (in Christian theology) a state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unrepentant person passes after death?
Eternal torment in Hell. Yes?
If that is destruction to you, you will need to provide references. I cannot just take your word.

Judas was called the "son of perdition" meaning "son of hell"

I believe also the Antichrist is referred to as the son of perdition.

I'm getting too sleepy, so I'm going to bed. If you haven't studied 2 Peter 1:2-11, it would be great for you to study to never stumble.

 

[The Disciple John]

Judas was called the "son of perdition" meaning "son of hell"

I believe also the Antichrist is referred to as the son of perdition.

Only in those translations that changed the meaning of the Greek word, meaning destruction.
You never did answer my questions on that though.
So you agree Hell is not forever for immortal beings such as Satan and his angels?

I'm getting too sleepy, so I'm going to bed. If you haven't studied 2 Peter 1:2-11, it would be great for you to study to never stumble.

Sleep well. Sweet dreams.

 

[ScottA]

Your opinion. Yes?

No, not opinion. I just eliminated what cannot be substantiated by scripture.

 

[ScottA]

You are giving me your opinion. I hope you read the OP. There, I outlined how this works.
Anyone can say anything, but that only leads to you saying what you believe and someone else saying different. That's not discussing scripture.

The little flock is made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Cornelius and his household - Gentiles -were included. Paul extensively covered this topic, showing that they were neither Jew nor Greek, but the Israel of God.
Paul did not use an analogy in describing how God subjected the creation to futility, but on the basis of hope.

See what I mean?
You would need to understand the reason for the kingdom which is ruled by Jesus and the heirs to get this... and that takes covering scriptures.
I have the time. Do you?

No, again not opinion. I gave the scriptures that confirm what I said. I am not discussing the scriptures, but confirming.

But what you are claiming cannot be established or confirmed by the scriptures.

As for Paul's comments on Jew or Greek, he did not say Cornelius was or was not, but rather that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female" saying that "all are one in Christ Jesus." Which does not say they are the little flock, as you have said. Not at all.

But if you do not claim having received the Holy Spirit, you are not qualified to confirm or deny what was inspired by the Spirit--even the Pharisees had the scriptures. But I am qualified. So, no, you do not have the time--for all that is not of the Spirit is passing away.